6 ms·

This is only half the story. The chips discussed in the article do the basic function advertised, but may not have the same tolerances as the genuine chip. But

This is only half the story. The chips discussed in the article do the basic function advertised, but may not have the same tolerances as the genuine chip. But there are other types of counterfeits out there. When we "recycle" our e-waste, much of it ends up in large landfills in China, where very poor workers melt down old boards, remove chips, and sort them by size and pin count. They then use a machine to scrub off the label and print on a new label of whatever part they want to market (usually obsolete parts that can't be bought from the original manufacturer). These end up in the supply chain of even reputable distributors. Amazingly, some of these counterfeits have made there way into military equipment, and as a result, there's a whole division of Homeland Security that conducts tests on suspect computer chip shipments entering the US.

jfries 9y ago
Do you mean we end up with a labeled chip whose insides are something completely different, and so won't ever work? Surely that doesn't happen this way. It must be many times cheaper to just buy empty packages than to clean up old ones?
- kw71 9y ago
  Yes there are known instances of parts being remarked as something completely unrelated.
- speedplane 9y ago
  It definitely happens. I suspect they do it this way rather than manufacture empty packages because there are a huge variety of chips out there with an equally diverse set of package designs. It's easier to pay unskilled laborers to sort chips into 200 different groups based on size, color, and pin count than to build a machine to replicate 200 different package types.
  - qb45 9y ago
    > manufacture empty packages That's the crux. You don't buy mass-produced empty packages to put the parts in. Packaging happens by putting the IC die, pins and bonding wires which connect them together inside a mold and filling it with plastic. It's probably cheaper and certainly lower-tech to replace markings on existing chip than produce a new one.
- honestoHeminway 9y ago
  The worst part actually is, when those chips are the correct ones- but have been used and have all the wear. Means, you have them baked on and off board, slight overcurrent damages, wear on internal flash and Elektromigration. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromigration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromigration And this chip is integrated into your new device. The only way to avoid this, would be a standard start of life vault, that is writeable once with the date and burns of the pathway to to re-write after that.
  - anticodon 9y ago
    Please, no. Manufacturers will use this to force selling us new equipment every 2-3 years. It's a very bad solution.
    - honestoHeminway 9y ago
      Manufactureres force you allready to buy new equipment 2-3years, by placing codensators near heatsources and other nice tricks (including the famous printer counter).
      - fapjacks 9y ago
        Hi there, I'm very interested in your comment. Do you have a link where I could read more about the techniques you've discussed as they pertain to forced obsolescence? Thanks!
        honestoHeminway 9y ago
        I have no direkt link, i just had - lets say a lesson at my university where one the teachers (who shall not be named) mentioned that there is a pretty exact science of statistically averaging the livetime of a capacitator with the heat it experiences during the devices operation. So if you want to extend a devices life, you can desolder some condensators and put them in areas of good Cooling.
        9y ago
- joshvm 9y ago
  There are more incipient problems. We've recently had an issue where some CCDs - readily available from China - work just as they're supposed to, but have some weird surface coating that causes interference effects. The up to date models, bought from a reputable distributor (e.g. Digikey et al) seem to work fine and look physically different. It's not clear whether the ones you can buy on eBay or Aliexpress are simply older models (and the manufacturer then removed this coating), or are actually knock-offs. We have no way of really knowing. It was a good lesson: most of the time it's just not worth it especially if you're not chasing pennies on your product margin.
_fizz_buzz_ 9y ago
Do you have a source for that, how do you know that? That sounds like an urban legend to me.
- speedplane 9y ago
  Not an urban legend, it's been well publicized, here's a whole congressional hearing on it (warning, it's long): https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CHRG-112shrg72702/pdf/CHRG-112shrg72702.pdf https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CHRG-112shrg72702/pdf/CHRG-112... Not good enough, here's a few more, but there is plenty else out there: http://www.ibtimes.com/why-pentagon-finding-counterfeit-chinese-electronics-critical-military-equipment-701214 http://www.ibtimes.com/why-pentagon-finding-counterfeit-chin... http://www.combatcounterfeits.com/gallery.htm http://www.combatcounterfeits.com/gallery.htm
- VLM 9y ago
  Personal experience having purchased random TO-3 packaged transistors from ebay labeled as LM323K voltage regulators to repair old hardware. Its "well known" in the retrocomputing hobby. Ironically SOME sellers on ebay are legit, and some sellers are legit sometimes, so if you play a statistical game buying from ten sellers at a 50th the price of legit on-shore sellers, you still save money. Obviously its a lot simpler to build a temporary test fixture for a 70s linear voltage regulator than a memory chip or obscure CPU support chip, LOL.
  - sitkack 9y ago
    Idea, adding sub-circuity to a design to detect for bad parts or test for a good part. Would only work for high end designs.
danmaz74 9y ago
A circuit board where you replace one of the specified chips with a completely random one which only has the same pin count won't pass even basic QA controls something like what, 99% of the time? As another commenter said, smells like an urban legend.
- DanBC 9y ago
  By the time the device gets to QA[1] the money has already been paid to the counterfeiter, and it's going to be hard to get that money back. Someone will lose money, but it's not going to be the counterfeiter.
  - makomk 9y ago
    Yeah, pretty much. SparkFun got an entire shipment of fake Atmega328s like this a few years bacK: https://www.sparkfun.com/news/395 https://www.sparkfun.com/news/395
    - qb45 9y ago
      Yes, and they were actually controller circuits for CPU voltage regulators. There is also a market for recycled and semi-properly labeled chips, for example selling low precision grade analog chips as a higher grade or chips tested for the usual 0-70°C operating temperature range as rated for military/aerospace range -55-125°C. This is harder to catch with QA. A few years ago there was an investigation in the US where they found some examples of such chips in military equipment and also proved counterfeiting beyond any doubt by ordering military grade parts which have never been offered by the manufacturer in military grade - the vendor simply relabeled them.

jfries 9y ago

Do you mean we end up with a labeled chip whose insides are something completely different, and so won't ever work? Surely that doesn't happen this way. It must be many times cheaper to just buy empty packages than to clean up old ones?

kw71 9y ago
Yes there are known instances of parts being remarked as something completely unrelated.
speedplane 9y ago
It definitely happens. I suspect they do it this way rather than manufacture empty packages because there are a huge variety of chips out there with an equally diverse set of package designs. It's easier to pay unskilled laborers to sort chips into 200 different groups based on size, color, and pin count than to build a machine to replicate 200 different package types.
- qb45 9y ago
  > manufacture empty packages That's the crux. You don't buy mass-produced empty packages to put the parts in. Packaging happens by putting the IC die, pins and bonding wires which connect them together inside a mold and filling it with plastic. It's probably cheaper and certainly lower-tech to replace markings on existing chip than produce a new one.
honestoHeminway 9y ago
The worst part actually is, when those chips are the correct ones- but have been used and have all the wear. Means, you have them baked on and off board, slight overcurrent damages, wear on internal flash and Elektromigration. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromigration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromigration And this chip is integrated into your new device. The only way to avoid this, would be a standard start of life vault, that is writeable once with the date and burns of the pathway to to re-write after that.
- anticodon 9y ago
  Please, no. Manufacturers will use this to force selling us new equipment every 2-3 years. It's a very bad solution.
  - honestoHeminway 9y ago
    Manufactureres force you allready to buy new equipment 2-3years, by placing codensators near heatsources and other nice tricks (including the famous printer counter).
    - fapjacks 9y ago
      Hi there, I'm very interested in your comment. Do you have a link where I could read more about the techniques you've discussed as they pertain to forced obsolescence? Thanks!
      - honestoHeminway 9y ago
        I have no direkt link, i just had - lets say a lesson at my university where one the teachers (who shall not be named) mentioned that there is a pretty exact science of statistically averaging the livetime of a capacitator with the heat it experiences during the devices operation. So if you want to extend a devices life, you can desolder some condensators and put them in areas of good Cooling.
        9y ago
joshvm 9y ago
There are more incipient problems. We've recently had an issue where some CCDs - readily available from China - work just as they're supposed to, but have some weird surface coating that causes interference effects. The up to date models, bought from a reputable distributor (e.g. Digikey et al) seem to work fine and look physically different. It's not clear whether the ones you can buy on eBay or Aliexpress are simply older models (and the manufacturer then removed this coating), or are actually knock-offs. We have no way of really knowing. It was a good lesson: most of the time it's just not worth it especially if you're not chasing pennies on your product margin.

_fizz_buzz_ 9y ago

Do you have a source for that, how do you know that? That sounds like an urban legend to me.

speedplane 9y ago
Not an urban legend, it's been well publicized, here's a whole congressional hearing on it (warning, it's long): https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CHRG-112shrg72702/pdf/CHRG-112shrg72702.pdf https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CHRG-112shrg72702/pdf/CHRG-112... Not good enough, here's a few more, but there is plenty else out there: http://www.ibtimes.com/why-pentagon-finding-counterfeit-chinese-electronics-critical-military-equipment-701214 http://www.ibtimes.com/why-pentagon-finding-counterfeit-chin... http://www.combatcounterfeits.com/gallery.htm http://www.combatcounterfeits.com/gallery.htm
VLM 9y ago
Personal experience having purchased random TO-3 packaged transistors from ebay labeled as LM323K voltage regulators to repair old hardware. Its "well known" in the retrocomputing hobby. Ironically SOME sellers on ebay are legit, and some sellers are legit sometimes, so if you play a statistical game buying from ten sellers at a 50th the price of legit on-shore sellers, you still save money. Obviously its a lot simpler to build a temporary test fixture for a 70s linear voltage regulator than a memory chip or obscure CPU support chip, LOL.
- sitkack 9y ago
  Idea, adding sub-circuity to a design to detect for bad parts or test for a good part. Would only work for high end designs.

danmaz74 9y ago

A circuit board where you replace one of the specified chips with a completely random one which only has the same pin count won't pass even basic QA controls something like what, 99% of the time? As another commenter said, smells like an urban legend.

DanBC 9y ago
By the time the device gets to QA[1] the money has already been paid to the counterfeiter, and it's going to be hard to get that money back. Someone will lose money, but it's not going to be the counterfeiter.
- makomk 9y ago
  Yeah, pretty much. SparkFun got an entire shipment of fake Atmega328s like this a few years bacK: https://www.sparkfun.com/news/395 https://www.sparkfun.com/news/395
  - qb45 9y ago
    Yes, and they were actually controller circuits for CPU voltage regulators. There is also a market for recycled and semi-properly labeled chips, for example selling low precision grade analog chips as a higher grade or chips tested for the usual 0-70°C operating temperature range as rated for military/aerospace range -55-125°C. This is harder to catch with QA. A few years ago there was an investigation in the US where they found some examples of such chips in military equipment and also proved counterfeiting beyond any doubt by ordering military grade parts which have never been offered by the manufacturer in military grade - the vendor simply relabeled them.