4 ms·

I hope it pays off for them, I can't help but think of how many other developers/studios have done the same, but failed anyway.

Cozumel 9y ago
Exactly. How many untold stories are there where they 'quit their jobs, remortgaged their houses' and now they live in a cardboard box under a bridge and their kids have been taken into care. Passion is a fantastic asset but a lot of these people confuse it with stupidity.
- grecy 9y ago
  > How many untold stories are there where they 'quit their jobs, remortgaged their houses' and now they live in a cardboard box under a bridge and their kids have been taken into care Oh please, stop with the scare mentality. Even if things go badly they are still educated, hard working people and would have no problem at all getting an entry level position in one day flat and living modestly for a decade or so. They're not going to live in cardboard boxes.
  - PhasmaFelis 9y ago
    > Oh please, stop with the scare mentality. This industry has a huge problem with survivorship bias. We keep encouraging people to burn themselves out doing startups that usually fail. Some cold reality is necessary, IMHO. By all means chase your dreams, but have a backup plan and don't bet anything you can't afford to lose.
    - grecy 9y ago
      > By all means chase your dreams You bet, I'm driving around Africa right now! :)
      - taway_1212 9y ago
        How do you research which areas are safe?
        grecy 9y ago
        Talking to locals, military, border guards, UN workers, ex-pats, travelers, etc. this is me http://theroadchoseme.com http://theroadchoseme.com
  - tunetine 9y ago
    Modestly with an entry level job with kids, no credit, and no place to live? I'm not sure who is more realistic.
    - grecy 9y ago
      They live in Canada. They have healthcare and education. They can rent a house. They'll be perfectly fine.
  - GuiA 9y ago
    They're in Canada, so yes, you are correct - there is a fairly decent net of social programs that will cover them even if they go broke and get really sick or have to pay for their kids' education. Not the case in every country.
  - taneq 9y ago
    > entry level position in one day flat and living modestly for a decade or so It's still essentially setting your career back by 5-10 years... that's a significant downside. And given that it's by far the most likely outcome, it's foolish to discount it.
  - j7ake 9y ago
    I agree they won't be living in cardboard boxes but the majority of these business risks end up in failure, with a portion of those ending up with significant debt. This debt can prevent sending kids to college, and being able to purchase a home. Many of these are historically considered attainable by the middle class. It is not so clear whether it is always a good idea to go this route, considering other options. The survivorship bias is strong in this space and it needs to be taken into account.
  - SyneRyder 9y ago
    > They're not going to live in cardboard boxes. Maybe not, but I've seen quite a few indies with massive debt, and who are struggling with depression & anxiety as a result, and that's huge pressure on their family. Which makes keeping the family together an added anxiety, and then it's a vicious cycle. [It echoes the Phil Fish line from Indie Game: The Movie about wanting to kill himself.] Burning yourself out on making a game (or a startup, or anything) is not worth that. Family and general happiness is so important. Keep things in scope so that if the lottery ticket doesn't work out, you've still got things to fall back on.
  - TeMPOraL 9y ago
    > and living modestly for a decade or so I.e. about 1/5 of your adult life. That's a huge setback, and I'd say a serious and irreparable damage to one's life.
bpodgursky 9y ago
This is hacker news, nobody is hear to read about the merits of holding down a 9-5 job at IBM.
- koolba 9y ago
  On the contrary, just like the repeated wisdom of controlling expenses and investing in diversified index funds, the merits of sticking with a steady job will always be espoused here. It's hacker news, not delusional koolaid news. I take GPs comment to be a sincere hope that things work out for them.
greenmana 9y ago
This is what bothers me about the "every man for himself" type of rhetoric in politics and wherever. If you just work hard enough, you can get everything for yourself with your own persistent commitment and then you deserve everything and blah blah. Of course that's a great place to get to, but there are tons of people out there doing just that, which means that not everyone gets to be the lucky ones. Societies should support and appreciate failure a lot more, and succesful people shouldn't generally be so entitled just because they won the hard working lottery. There's never enough space for all the people trying hard, and not the ones trying the hardest will always succeed. But it still makes me very happy when people give it their truly best shot.

Cozumel 9y ago

Exactly. How many untold stories are there where they 'quit their jobs, remortgaged their houses' and now they live in a cardboard box under a bridge and their kids have been taken into care. Passion is a fantastic asset but a lot of these people confuse it with stupidity.

grecy 9y ago
> How many untold stories are there where they 'quit their jobs, remortgaged their houses' and now they live in a cardboard box under a bridge and their kids have been taken into care Oh please, stop with the scare mentality. Even if things go badly they are still educated, hard working people and would have no problem at all getting an entry level position in one day flat and living modestly for a decade or so. They're not going to live in cardboard boxes.
- PhasmaFelis 9y ago
  > Oh please, stop with the scare mentality. This industry has a huge problem with survivorship bias. We keep encouraging people to burn themselves out doing startups that usually fail. Some cold reality is necessary, IMHO. By all means chase your dreams, but have a backup plan and don't bet anything you can't afford to lose.
  - grecy 9y ago
    > By all means chase your dreams You bet, I'm driving around Africa right now! :)
    - taway_1212 9y ago
      How do you research which areas are safe?
      - grecy 9y ago
        Talking to locals, military, border guards, UN workers, ex-pats, travelers, etc. this is me http://theroadchoseme.com http://theroadchoseme.com
- tunetine 9y ago
  Modestly with an entry level job with kids, no credit, and no place to live? I'm not sure who is more realistic.
  - grecy 9y ago
    They live in Canada. They have healthcare and education. They can rent a house. They'll be perfectly fine.
- GuiA 9y ago
  They're in Canada, so yes, you are correct - there is a fairly decent net of social programs that will cover them even if they go broke and get really sick or have to pay for their kids' education. Not the case in every country.
- taneq 9y ago
  > entry level position in one day flat and living modestly for a decade or so It's still essentially setting your career back by 5-10 years... that's a significant downside. And given that it's by far the most likely outcome, it's foolish to discount it.
- j7ake 9y ago
  I agree they won't be living in cardboard boxes but the majority of these business risks end up in failure, with a portion of those ending up with significant debt. This debt can prevent sending kids to college, and being able to purchase a home. Many of these are historically considered attainable by the middle class. It is not so clear whether it is always a good idea to go this route, considering other options. The survivorship bias is strong in this space and it needs to be taken into account.
- SyneRyder 9y ago
  > They're not going to live in cardboard boxes. Maybe not, but I've seen quite a few indies with massive debt, and who are struggling with depression & anxiety as a result, and that's huge pressure on their family. Which makes keeping the family together an added anxiety, and then it's a vicious cycle. [It echoes the Phil Fish line from Indie Game: The Movie about wanting to kill himself.] Burning yourself out on making a game (or a startup, or anything) is not worth that. Family and general happiness is so important. Keep things in scope so that if the lottery ticket doesn't work out, you've still got things to fall back on.
- TeMPOraL 9y ago
  > and living modestly for a decade or so I.e. about 1/5 of your adult life. That's a huge setback, and I'd say a serious and irreparable damage to one's life.

bpodgursky 9y ago

This is hacker news, nobody is hear to read about the merits of holding down a 9-5 job at IBM.

koolba 9y ago
On the contrary, just like the repeated wisdom of controlling expenses and investing in diversified index funds, the merits of sticking with a steady job will always be espoused here. It's hacker news, not delusional koolaid news. I take GPs comment to be a sincere hope that things work out for them.

greenmana 9y ago

This is what bothers me about the "every man for himself" type of rhetoric in politics and wherever. If you just work hard enough, you can get everything for yourself with your own persistent commitment and then you deserve everything and blah blah. Of course that's a great place to get to, but there are tons of people out there doing just that, which means that not everyone gets to be the lucky ones. Societies should support and appreciate failure a lot more, and succesful people shouldn't generally be so entitled just because they won the hard working lottery. There's never enough space for all the people trying hard, and not the ones trying the hardest will always succeed. But it still makes me very happy when people give it their truly best shot.