15 ms·

I'm a creep. I'm sorry

• cyberferret 9y ago
  I don't know the guy aside from what I have read in the press (both good and bad), but I'd like to think he wrote this with genuine sincerity. Hopefully this is the start of a groundswell trend of traits such as 'accountability' and 'taking responsibility for your actions' becoming fashionable and an expected part of human behaviour again.
  • ceejayoz 9y ago
    Call me cynical, but I suspect all these apology posts are written largely by the poster's PR firm.
    • dsr_ 9y ago
      I'm okay with that. Actual apologies, ghost-written or not, have been rare in US business until the past year or so. Apologies aren't the same as reparations, of course, and should be followed up by that.
      • ceejayoz 9y ago
        I don't think the trend to more genuine sounding apologies reflects an increase in actual empathy/understanding. I just think PR firms have realized you can't get away with the old "sorry if you got offended and can't handle my awesomeness" pseudo-apology nowadays.
    • an_account 9y ago
      This one sounds pretty genuine. With something of this nature you'd be stupid not to have PR people help out, but it does sound genuine. It sounds like he's stepping back and taking a very hard look at his actions and behavior. Hopefully he improves and doesn't do the same in the future. Also, hopefully other similarly situated people see this and learn from his (now very public) mistakes.
      • ceejayoz 9y ago
        The best PR is usually going to be PR that doesn't sound like PR. I do hope people learn from this, but I tend to be dubious of "I've changed!" statements immediately after getting caught.
        • thehardsphere 9y ago
          Well, let's be fair here: He didn't say "I've changed" he said "I am trying to change." And this isn't necessarily immediately after getting caught, but after the story was published in the New York Times; it's implied earlier that other people in the company approached him and explained to him that his behavior was unacceptable. I think it's PR, but that doesn't automatically mean he isn't genuinely apologizing. The two are not mutually exclusive.
    • smoyer 9y ago
      I'm also cynical by nature but ... I'm also hopeful that his behavior does change and that we see that he was sincere by the lack of further examples of bad behavior.
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• robtaylor 9y ago
  Money can't buy class and all that.
  • tunetine 9y ago
    It worked in Pretty Woman.
• seibelj 9y ago
  I keep a 100% wall between work and personal life for a reason. Anyone I'm doing business with I see at best as a coworker or business acquaintance, so there is no risk of merging those two realms. If you are powerful man or woman, you should be aware that people who know who you are treat you differently. This Dave McClure guy actually thought all these women were into him purely because he was some amazing dude and not because he could finance their dreams. What a moron
  • madeofpalk 9y ago
    Isn't there only a risk because you're a creep? My best friends have been those that I've worked with and never once has that been a problem for me because I know how to be an appropriate human being.
    • protomyth 9y ago
      > Isn't there only a risk because you're a creep? No, blackmail is possible also. Obviously, you have to be worth blackmailing, but some people have some low standards for rewards.
  • protomyth 9y ago
    Not commenting on this case, but Billy Graham, after seeing what happened to other well know preachers, was never alone with any woman except his wife Ruth. It is a pretty good strategy. Today, a powerful person could probably enhance his/her personal security by having an assistant with an always on camera like some police forces use.
    • bdcravens 9y ago
      He may have been protecting himself from others, but also protecting himself from himself? I don't feel Billy Graham was eager to cheat, but he recognized his potential for giving in to temptation, and made specific choices ahead of time to minimize his risk.
      • 9y ago
• cylinder 9y ago
  I've got to wonder, why do coworkers go out for drinks if it's not a social setting? I don't understand the logic of mixing alcohol with colleagues if you're still under the "workplace" umbrella.
  • ams6110 9y ago
    I don't really understand socializing with co-workers outside of work under any circumstances, but especially with intoxicants involved. This includes company holiday parties, etc. Let work be work, and keep your social life separate. I've seen far more bad than good come out of such things.
    • LeoNatan25 9y ago
      People are people. A true friendship can form between coworkers and there is no reason to forcefully undercut such a relationship just because it's "work". People willing to do that are very weird to me, and I am glad no such people work where I work, or have worked in the past.
    • kevin_nisbet 9y ago
      Most of my best friends I've met at work, and we socialize often even after changing jobs. I also find it to be a great opportunity to blow off steam with like minded people, about the problems we're encountering in the workplace.
    • cylinder 9y ago
      I agree, not a fan of these things. I make friends through jobs, but by planning private hangouts with them...
    • alsetmusic 9y ago
      I went to dinner with seven good friends last week and we all met at the same employer. None of us have been coworkers for over five years. We spent about 2.5 hours together laughing and having a blast. Some work environments are genuinely conducive to forming friendships and others are not. I haven't befriended coworkers at every job, but my closest friendships have all been from the workplace since leaving school.
• rmason 9y ago
  I was pretty critical on here just yesterday about Dave McClure. I'd never met him in person but felt like his behavior was unlike the guy I felt I knew from his writings and interviews. This is heads above the apologies from Justin Caldbeck and Sacca though I wished he'd written it months ago, back when the changes at 500 Startups were first made. It's a good start, but only the beginning.
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• voidhorse 9y ago
  This just feels like an save-face operation. If these fellas want to show their commitment to changing it will require two things in my opinion: 1. A prolonged period of time without further incident. 2. Perhaps some dedicated effort to supporting, monetarily or otherwise, the elimination of this sort of behavior at the structural level? Start a campaign against sexism/harassment or something? Though to make it not appear disingenuous they ought to do so in a fake name--that's the problem when you're outed as a manipulator in a position of power, literally every subsequent move you make reads like manipulation. The McClure case as described in the NYT article wasn't too extreme and it is possible that some of it was misunderstanding and the he is being honest--it sounds like, for instance, 500 could have decided to end their conversations with Kunst for reasons beyond the message, but we'll never know. For instance I cannot help but feel the majority of this piece is McClure looking out for McClure and not giving a shit about actually being sorry. Of course I don't know that, but trust is difficult to regain. Granted, McClure's fuck up does jive with the context he describes here, but it just becomes very difficult to believe any of these apology letters are genuine until some time has passed in which that is shown to be the case.
  • briandear 9y ago
    Does a campaign really accomplish anything? Campaigns just seem like a lot of virtue signaling without any actual substance. How about organizations simply deal with the problem? When there is a complaint, investigate it. If it’s legitimate, discipline the perpetrator. If it’s an unfounded or malicious claim, discipline the accuser. It’s interesting how SV makes the news for this but sexual harassment/sleeping to the top is standard operating procedure in Hollywood – the VC world makes The NY Times while the everyday stuff that happens in Hollywood would make your skin crawl. While the SV problem exists, I can’t help but feel there is some agenda happening as other power-centric industries don’t seem to get the ink that SV does.
    • greglindahl 9y ago
      A campaign to change company HR policies can actually accomplish something. HR policies set expectations. All companies have a policy against dating within the chain of command. I bet that in the future, a lot of companies are also going to have language about not starting relationships with suppliers, customers, investors, etc. Given all of the mess with conferences, that could use a little policy, too...
• pgroves 9y ago
  Best part is the woman who confronted the CEO about being a serial sexual-harrasser and ended up CEO. Edit: Re-reading I can't tell what his title was, only that she was CEO after the fact.
  • hkmurakami 9y ago
    You mean his cofounder?
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  • Kequc 9y ago
    It's a strange notion that politics in a company are a good thing. Rewarding people for attacking the character of those above them is a race to the bottom. In this case it seems it was a co founder and not at all the situation you describe.
  • randyrand 9y ago
    it does call her intentions into question. she was not a neutral party and he should not have gone to her for advice.
• SeeDave 9y ago
  Not sure what to say, or how to make things whole for his victims as there is a very wide spectrum of consequence between 'boys will be boys' and capital punishment. I really encourage him to think in terms of 'next steps' to make amends when it comes to those affected by his behavior. Anything less, in my completely and totally unqualified opinion, is but self-serving lip service.
  • gcatalfamo 9y ago
    "his victims"
• Dzugaru 9y ago
  I can't help it but I can't find any reason to consider this as having > 0 information. You are absolutely forced and 100% expected to do this in a situation now, right? I, honestly, find this very disturbing (black mirror way), regardless of my opinion on the matter at hand.
  • nulldev 9y ago
    > You are absolutely forced and 100% expected to do this in a situation now, right? Not remotely. Just look at any of the recent Fox News harassment scandals, or literally anything involving the current POTUS.
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  • quaunaut 9y ago
    You can be yourself, be human, be flexible, and not make sexual advances toward those you have power over. In fact, if you can't do both, it's you who cannot survive in today's world. It's time for us to all get better at being more aware of our position.
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      • meowface 9y ago
        >He doesn't have any power over this woman. She wasn't even hired yet to begin with. Are you kidding? He has power over her future employment. She wants a job there, and he has the power to give her the job or to reject her. Also, if he were to hire her, he'd have power over her during her entire employment.
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          • meowface 9y ago
            >Do you send just one job application when you're trying to find a new job? No, but if it's a lucrative job that I really want to work at, then the hiring manager definitely has power over me. >That assumes that transaction is somehow not mutually beneficial. It is mutually beneficial, but you're probably looking at a 30:1 (or higher) benefit ratio here, in his favor. > In the end, she's the one that has power over him, as evident from all publicity and his subsequent apology and management changes. No, she only has power over him insomuch that she can leak any attempts by him to exploit his leverage over her. If he doesn't make any such attempts, she has no power. This is like a cop beating and arresting someone recording him and, after the tape leaks to the media, defending the cop with "the suspect was the one with power over him because he was filming him, as evident from the aftermath."
• gavriel 9y ago
  This nerd thought it's okay because he's rich now. Well at least now he knows his place lol.
• daenz 9y ago
  Is it just me, or is committing public seppuku like this really necessary? If what he did was illegal, he should face prosecution. If he's compelled to apologize and admit his guilt, he should reach out to the people he actually wronged. This kind of public self-flagellation ("I'm such a creep. Please forgive me, world.") feels really over the top, phony, and symbolic.
  • LeoNatan25 9y ago
    It did read cringe-worthy to me. But then again, the allegations are much more so.
  • adriand 9y ago
    Totally agree. There's something very weird about this post. If I were truly faced with the sudden realization that I was a deeply shitty person, I can't imagine writing a post like this. I'd be off the grid entirely, probably drinking in a ditch some place. I know I can't speak for others and everyone is different, but the human element is missing here somehow. It does feel very PR.
    • jmcgough 9y ago
      His career depends very much on his reputation, and his reputation was just dragged through the mud over the past week. It's difficult to know whether this introspection and contrition is genuine, but his post is all about salvaging his name.
      • chris_wot 9y ago
        Even if it isn't genuine (and it appears genuine to me) then it's a step forward for a Silicon Valley head to recognise their actions are wrong.
    • fellellor 9y ago
      Buy will these yesterday's PR moves work in the much more cynical world of today?
    • 9y ago
• foolfoolz 9y ago
  when this happens it goes beyond just being a creep at work. the people you do this may fear retaliation for reporting the incident, work with you after (he still works at the company), and face down skeptics who can belittle what happened this post shows some thoughtfulness, but my reaction is "stay far away from this person and this company"
• unityByFreedom 9y ago
  Good on this guy for owning up. Now he has a chance to move on without trying to live his life as a lie.
• imaginenore 9y ago
  Damn, that's a good apology. The guy seems to be working on fixing his behavior.
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• throwcatch 9y ago
  You have to assume all of these apologies are written with the help of PR firms and crisis management teams. Sacca’s was the most obviously phony, which makes sense since he’s trying to protect his new TV career. There are way more of these creeps than these stories will let out. It really depends how well connected you are to the media machine in SV. Binary Capital and 500 are both too small and irrelevant to cause problems for the reporters breaking these stories, but what about Peter Thiel’s friends? You can’t even talk about them without worrying about going bankrupt. There are a lot of women out there who are watching these stories and saying absolutely nothing, because they know the odds are still stacked against them. Exposing a couple mid tier guys doesn’t mean anything.
• nnfy 9y ago
  It sounds like people are underestimating the pervasive lonileness that even successful young males experience in tech. This does create an incentive for women to play a little loose with their professional behavior, and we only see one side of the story here. No, I don't mean to excuse McClure's behavior entirely; however, the fact that many of these women did not immediately cease contact after innapropriate advances, and continues to take advantage of funds and mentorship, suggests that these women are at least partly culpable. This isn't victim blaming; when you have hundreds of applicants to choose from/compete with, it isn't a surprise that people use/accept sexual flirtation (and sometimes favors) to get ahead/judge applicants. People have been selling sex for thousands of years. The only novelty here is the outrage.
  • jmcgough 9y ago
    Yes, you are victim blaming. You are immediately assuming with no evidence that she's some kind of conniving she-devil. They are not in tech. They are in venture capital, and it's more challenging to get a position at a VC firm than it is to get a job at a startup as an engineer.
    • nnfy 9y ago
      I am not assuming anything. In fact it is ironically the opposite, people are assuming that McClure is some kind of he-devil. The truth is likely much murkier. But because of the power imbalance, in our culture we are more critical of McClure. Also I'm speaking in general terms. Sexual favors are nothing new, regardless of whether you feel they are ethical.
  • BoiledCabbage 9y ago
    > It sounds like people are underestimating the pervasive lonileness that even successful young males experience in tech. And again this comes up every single time. Just because someone is lonely didn't mean they're entitled to sexually harass someone else. Nor does being horny justify it. Nor does being angry justify violence. Similarly the fact they have to now choose between throwing away financial opportunity or acquiesce to this harassment is exactly why there is a law there protecting people from it. In part, it's illegal to put people in a position where they have to make that choice.
• hellopat 9y ago
  I find that he mentions the situation occurred "over drinks" a way to make it seem less innappropriate. It's pretty simple, don't hit on women you have a business relationship with. I've seen it happen on multiple occasions and I cringe every time.
• welcome_dragon 9y ago
  I for one am happy to see a true apology here, not an "I'm sorry if I offended you" statement that so many people make the days. This has all the points of a proper apology: an understanding of the wrong committed, acknowledging that it was his fault, and demonstrating commitment to change. It also appears to be sincere
  • ithinkinstereo 9y ago
    It's a qualified apology. I dislike how he not-so-subtly tries to justify his actions by painting a context that delegitimizes Sarah's claims. It's worth noting that Sarah claims that many other women contacted her with similar stories of harassment, the fact that all of them are also women of color is especially telling (as were all of Caldbeck's victims). I mean if he wants to bring up contextual details, maybe McClure should mention that like Caldbeck, he is also married. So how more scummy can you be? A sexist harasser and an adulterer. These guys are only sorry they got caught and are now back pedaling to save some face. People need to understand that this type of behavior causes terrible damage on the victims which can last for years and often leave permanent scars. So it's especially fucked up and unjust that people like McClure and Caldbeck, when caught, can simply make a half-assed -- and in the case of Caldbeck and Sacca, narcissistic -- apology; lay low for a few months; and then jump right back as if nothing happened. For fuck's sake one of the LPs at Binary knew about Caldbeck's reputation and harassment issues and still invested.
• dbg31415 9y ago
  A HUGE percentage of couples meet through work. It's not inherently wrong, or something inherently taboo. (We've all been told not to stick our pens in the company ink, but... time and time again we also see examples of happily married couples who met on the job... Bill Gates' wife worked for Microsoft, The Obamas met while they were working together, Ryan Reynolds & Blake Lively met on the set of Green Lantern...) So it feels like the message here is, "It's fine when it works, and it's totally not fine when it doesn't work." The only way to know if it's fine is to ask. It's not really something you can make universal rules for. To each their own, right? (I would say a wedding ring means someone is off limits, but affairs happen all the time too.) Point being, it has to be something more than, "It's OK to hit on someone if they are attracted to you." I think hitting on someone is inherently a compliment. But if they say no, and you try again, and they still say no, well probably don't try a third time. This guy is apologizing for being called a creep after hitting on someone once... man, that's rough. You don't know until you try. There needs to be a little more flex here, it can't just come down to, "Anyone who we don't feel attraction to should be fired if they pay us a poorly worded compliment or tell a bad joke." Stalkers, sure... people who try and leverage their position in the company to get laid (with the implication), yeah... but just some guy who tries to clumsily flirt with a girl and can't play it smooth because he's fundamentally not a player and actually likes her... come on, cut that guy some slack.
  • superplussed 9y ago
    Power inbalance man, that's the point.
    • dbg31415 9y ago
      There's always power imbalances though. Social, knowledge, financial... can you only hit on people whose looks are on par with your own, and who have the same amount of money you do, and same education, same experience, knowledge, social network... blah blah. Always going to be a power imbalance of some sort between people.
      • aianus 9y ago
• thejerz 9y ago
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  • chasing 9y ago
    I'm a man. I would not leverage my power in order to seduce her.
  • lclarkmichalek 9y ago
    Aw man, there's no contact info in your profile :/ Could you drop me a mail with your details, so I can ensure I never end up working in the same environment as you.
  • cyberferret 9y ago
    But to differentiate ourselves from animals, we have this thing called 'civility'. We have the capacity to rationally think about our actions and discard primate style behaviours that do not function in modern society. Not too many city dwelling men use their narrow focal vision and instinctive ability to calculate parabolic maths and wind speed to throw spears at dinner. That means they should also curb their instinctive impulses to club the nearest female and drag them back to the cave by her hair...
• rhizome 9y ago
  One thing I'd like to see from these people on the inside is some sense of where this comes from. Where did they learn it? What does it say about others in the VC club who saw something and said nothing? This stuff has obviously been condoned for years and years and years, he should help dismantle it more than falling on his own sword. Reveal the secret handshake(s).
• FT_intern 9y ago
  I'm not sure if creep is the best word to use here. Creep is a gendered term like slut or bitch.
  • Aron 9y ago
    So it would be weird if he called himself a bitch maybe, but he is a male calling himself creep, so I'm confused.
  • draw_down 9y ago
    Dear lord.
• bluetwo 9y ago
  As someone once said, "You can offer an excuse or you can offer an apology, but you can't offer both." I'm not sure which this is. It sounds to me like both.
  • 77pt77 9y ago
    You can offer both, but the most likely outcome is that they won't be accepted as such.
  • macspoofing 9y ago
    That's probably correct. His 'apology' included a contradiction of certain statements made in the NY Times story by the woman he harassed, specifically that her rejection of him was the reason she was not being hired by his company. I think he wanted that on the record.
• Aron 9y ago
  Loses his job. Major strike on his career. National public shaming. I'm gonna click the link and go see what murderous crime he committed.
  • ben_jones 9y ago
    We send people to jail for decades for selling weed. Our sense of justice in this country is perverted. I honestly believe many people would support imprisonment, ostracization, or worse, for this person instead of rehab or similar paths.
  • geofft 9y ago
    People lose their job for all sorts of reasons, no crime necessary. If you're going to worry about people losing their jobs, why don't we start by talking about everyone laid off at Etsy, and importantly, the college kids who were informed two weeks before their internship started that no such internship existed any more? As for career and public shame: he's had a wildly successful career and significant public praise in his lifetime. I think he can deal with it. As I wrote in another thread, take a look at Brendan Eich. If losing your job and being publicly shamed leads to being in charge of a well-funded, well-respected growing startup with a real product (plus whatever net worth he has from his previous employment, none of which was taken from him), I would like to know how to sign up to be publicly shamed like that.
    • Aron 9y ago
      i.e. 'if they are powerful, nothing done to them can be called injustice' progressive.
      • geofft 9y ago
        As with most things in real life, my thoughts here are quite a bit more complex than a half-sentence inaccurate absurdist reduction plus an unrelated political label at the end. Are you interested in having discussions involving multiple complete sentences, or have I wasted my time replying?
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• 80211 9y ago
  I'm not a creep! Where's my trophy?
• newtem0 9y ago
  Is asking a woman if you can buy her coffee sometime sexual harrasment if you do it at the workplace?
  • genieyclo 9y ago
    Yes.
    • macspoofing 9y ago
      No. That's not right. Don't be stupid. People meet romantic partners and spouses at work all the time - are they all sexual harassers? The true answer is: "It depends".
      • genieyclo 9y ago
        Don't shit where you eat is a sensible, safe rule to live by; ymmv.
        • macspoofing 9y ago
          I wonder about people like you. Do you live in the real world, and interact with real people? Do you have real friends? Because it doesn't sound like it. Not dating your coworkers is a sensible rule that some people follow and some companies may have policies around ... but a rule you have no hope in expecting to be universally adhered to. Case in point: The sheer number of (happy and unhappy) couples who met at work.
          • genieyclo 9y ago
            I've worked with plenty of workplace couples, I'm not casting aspersions on them. It can and does work out great for many. I just personally believe in separating work and life. Sorry for the un-nuanced answer.
            • macspoofing 9y ago
• stevebmark 9y ago
  Refreshing to see an actual apology instead of a digging in of heels common to tech industry shittiness (see: Notch). The apology may(?) be cathartic for the people he's harassed but the damage is done. He's only apologizing as a forced response from the major public backlash. The only silver lining I see is others will be (and are) scared about this kind of behavior which used to go unchecked.
• pjzedalis 9y ago
  He completely misses the forests from the trees. Had the woman been hired she would have been denied by him the satisfaction of knowing she earned the position through her hard work, intelligence, and capabilities. He also does not seem to recognize why he is a creep. Ultimately we find people creepy when they portray themselves and their motives one way and yet secretly or covertly act another. I recommend therapy so that he can identify his true desires and motivations and then realign his life to optimize for them.
  • mojowo11 9y ago
    Not to be confrontational here (or argue with your primary point), but I'm pretty sure you didn't read the whole post. It says in the post that he's been going attending regular counseling already.
    • pjzedalis 9y ago
      Good catch. I did read that but misplaced it when replying. I am glad he is seeking help but I hope its for purposes of identifying his desires/behaviors and not only mandated by circumstance.
      • nulldev 9y ago
        > I did read that but misplaced it when replying. This is some of the most ridiculous phrasing I've ever come across.
        • pjzedalis 9y ago
          It is to admit that I could have said "glad to see he is in therapy and hope he finds his true motivations" but I forgot he mentioned it because it is besides the point. The objective of my comment was to throttle down the "creep shaming" going on in this forum and several others. Many people sometimes act creepily without even being aware of it. A little empathy as to how the other person feels and what their goals are can help one treat them with the respect they deserve. Hopefully the author can discover when his various desires are appropriate to express in context of the circumstances at hand.
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• hendzen 9y ago
  Caveat, McClure's behavior was bad. But seeing recent public floggings for misbehavior I now wonder if people are feeling a bit hypersensitive/cautious about any workplace conduct that could potentially be perceived as harassment. Case in point. You work at a technology company. You are attracted to another coworker, who is NOT your subordinate. Is there some manner in which it is acceptable to express your interest? Or is this just not OK at all?
  • cbsmith 9y ago
    > You work at a technology company. You are attracted to another coworker, who is NOT your subordinate. Is there some manner in which it is acceptable to express your interest? Or is this just not OK at all? Yes, there are plenty of manners to express it, just like at any company. That said, there are a lot of ways to express it that are just making someone's work life terrible.
  • spamizbad 9y ago
    I think asking coworkers out is a huge no-no. If the only people in your orbit you feel you can connect with that way are at work, that's a sign your personal life needs some development. However, let's say you have a robust personal life, and you just have this absolutely amazing co-worker, who totally is not your subordinate, and ideally you don't even work directly with, and you want to ask them out... again.. I discourage it.... but: Ask them out someplace public outside of work. If they say no, that means no, and just drop it. If you hear "I don't know, I don't really like to date coworkers" that's also a no - don't push the issue. If they say "I don't think that's a good idea" - also a no. If they say "Eh....." or laugh or whatever, it's a no, and just drop it. Be aware a no could make things really awkward for you two, and it may even piss off your co-worker who perhaps viewed you as this great work friend but now thinks things are weird. It can hurt them in other ways: they may also blame themselves for not being more into you, and question if they lead you on. So if you get rejected, just say "Hey that's cool. It was a long-shot, I understand."
    • HappyTypist 9y ago
      That really depends. At my current startup there are three "<Company> couples".
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• SirLJ 9y ago
  Pure PR, if he is really sorry, he should resign from all positions with "power" over other human beings...
  • nulldev 9y ago
    If he were truly sorry he would retreat to a mountain lair to live out the rest of his days as a monastic hermit. Clearly the fact that he still has a keyboard to type on proves his insincerity. /s
    • SirLJ 9y ago
      A 500 Startups partner just quit, saying leadership was untruthful about the Dave McClure situation http://www.businessinsider.com/500-startups-partner-quits-cites-firms-handling-dave-mcclure-charges-2017-7 http://www.businessinsider.com/500-startups-partner-quits-ci...
• opaol 9y ago
  I know a former executive at Homeland Security who was also a federal prosecutor. He's now the head of security for a large company that owns luxury condos. When I reported a former roommate for prostituting teenage girls (my friends), the security executive said they didn't want to know about it. This led to a dispute and the executive called five of my colleagues, intimidated them and told them lies about me. The situation quickly devolved from there, involving a complicated tale of criminal and civil charges. It was shocking to realize how many guys think its okay to offer girls money for sex, even if they're young.
• partycoder 9y ago
  Doesn't count. The true character of a person is revealed when there's no one around to punish bad behavior.
• neurotech1 9y ago
  His response reminded me of the famous 'Asoh Defense', when Captain Kohei Asoh accidently put a perfectly good plane into the water on approach to SFO [0] > Asoh, when asked by the NTSB about the landing, reportedly replied, "As you Americans say, I f__d up." In his 1988 book The Abilene Paradox, author Jerry B. Harvey termed this frank acceptance of blame the "Asoh defense", and the story and term have been taken up by a number of other management theorists. I believe Dave McClure taking responsibility for his mistakes in such a strong way is a step towards repairing the damage caused by his inappropriate behavior. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Airlines_Flight_2#The_.22Asoh_defense.22 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Airlines_Flight_2#The_.2...
  • draw_down 9y ago
    One could also term it "adult behavior".
• alexandercrohde 9y ago
  A lot of people here seem to not understand the power imbalance point, so I'd like to explain it. Imagine you're in these positions: --Being arrested, and an officer makes a romantic advance --On trial, and the judge makes a romantic advance --In therapy, and the therapist makes a romantic advance --At the doctor, and the doctor makes a romantic advance --At the bank, and the banker makes a romantic advance --In a restaurant, and the waiter makes a romantic advance --At work, and the cleaning staff makes a romantic advance --In class, and the teacher makes a romantic advance --Buying a car, and the car dealer makes a romantic advance Obviously each of these situations is a little different, and the appropriateness of flirting in each situation is a little bit different (for example a therapist will lose the ability to practice for life if they date a client, e.g. Dr. Phil). When you consider why some of these are obviously wrong (cop, judge, therapist, teacher) it's because the individual in question has a responsibility to make a neutral judgement call that will have a meaningful impact on your life. Now I'm not saying I have the answer to this, but I think we need to begin the discussion by establishing some principles.
  • Xunxi 9y ago
    Its only a problem if the other party is not into you, figuring out the ends sorts out the means. There have also been instances where the other party recoils and indicts the proposal. It is the reality of life even though some might disagree. Nonetheless, workplace relationship is emotionally dicey and avoiding it is a safer bet.
    • arkades 9y ago
      > Its only a problem if the other party is not into you, You're part of the problem.
      • treehau5 9y ago
        This is a useless reply, and it has become pervasive. Technically anyone not a part of the solution is part of the problem. Instead maybe clarify on what you find objectionable to help everyone out, including parent.
• tekstar 9y ago
  This reminds me of when Jiam Ghomeshi made a post about being into S&M right before his accusers charged him with rape.
• naiveattack 9y ago
  From linked nytimes: > Many of the women also said they believed they had limited ability to push back against inappropriate behavior, often because they needed funding, a job or other help. > Lindsay Meyer in her home in San Francisco. She said a venture capitalist groped and kissed her. “I felt like I had to tolerate it because this is the cost of being a nonwhite female founder,” she said. > They put up with the comments, Ms. Renock said, because they “couldn’t imagine a world in which that $500,000 wasn’t on the table anymore.” Without reducing blame on the perpetrators: As someone who loves women as he loves his fellow man, I would say Women out there, don't morally bankrupt yourselves just to get something that you want! We need you to be better than that. Let's create a world with better women, nay people, who are morally upright!
• mrmcd 9y ago
  I wish there was a way to give imaginary internet upvote points to all the people who didn't act like harassing shitheads, but I guess we're stuck with giving them to this asshole, who whines about "this isn't who I am!" and "I invested in so many of my LGBTQ friends!" months or years afterwords when finally called out on it.
  • draw_down 9y ago
    Yes, there is something infuriating about this cycle of become rich acting like a jackass -> get called out -> write some apology blog post -> get showered with praise for doing the bare minimum as a human. Of course doubling down and not apologizing is worse, but I guess at some point you have to ask materially, what really is the difference. Women entrepreneurs who had trouble getting funded because VCs could only think about their dicks, what do they gain from this?
• atlih 9y ago
  All those examples give you the same or more power over them.
  • noobermin 9y ago
    When you're arrested, you have more power over the person who arrested you?
    • atlih 9y ago
      Not at all, until they express interest in you.
      • noobermin 9y ago
        This is very down in the weeds, but let me provide an example. >I'm going to place you under arrest, but if you give me your number, I might forget about it. The power dynamic there favors the officer over you. If you don't yield to him/er, you could face prison. That demonstrates the issue with power dynamic leading to sexual harassment is that one with more power over the other coerces them into yielding sexual favors that they otherwise would not consent to.
        • atlih 9y ago
          Yes I understand that, but the power dynamic completely shifts when the powerful party shows interest. You might get yourself out of handcuffs by giving your or even a fake number if the powerful party is interested.
          • danek 9y ago
            That's not an example of "shifting the power dynamic"
            • deleted 9y ago
              [deleted]
• throwawaycuz 9y ago
  The amount Sacca's been virtue signaling about gender equality, racism, how much he loves his wife -- for the last 3 years -- I knew something was up. When he started posting that he had moved to Montana, I got the feeling he was in hiding.
• julianmarq 9y ago
  > It's a qualified apology. I dislike how he not-so-subtly tries to justify his actions by painting a context that delegitimizes Sarah's claims. What claims were "deligitimized" and how did he do it? As for everything else you wrote I'll just say it must be awful living with such a misanthropic view but, hey, you do you.
  • ithinkinstereo 9y ago
    Other posters agree with my read on his apology. While apologizing, McClure is also simultaneously trying to water down Sarah's presentation of the story; that the situation was more/less social in nature... specifically he says stuff like: ... years ago over drinks, late one night in a small group ... ... for my inappropriate behavior in a setting I thought was social, but in hindsight was clearly not ... I mean, sure, the situation wasn't a formal interview, but by his omission, I take it that it also wasn't a dinner or social outing with friends. He also brings up that drinks were involved, but practically every company/vc sponsored event in the valley has alcohol involved. That doesn't make it okay to proposition an attendee you talked to about an open job position afterwards over FACEBOOK and bring up said job as part of your come-on. I mean this is literally the textbook definition of sexual harassment. McClure of course doesn't bring up this level of detail about all the other instances where he sexually harassed women, probably because those instances were in even more formal settings and make him look like an even bigger creep. What is truly misanthropic are apologists like yourself who give guys like this a pass because they write a nicely worded apology on medium after getting caught. Oh, he's soooo sincere; and what a good guy he is; and did you know that funded some LGBT initiative! Half of the posts on this thread keep on bringing up the issue of workplace romance. It's a total red herring and a crock of shit. There are acceptable and appropriate ways to flirt and date in the workplace (if you must). All it takes is judgement and common sense. The vast majority of men deal with this just fine, and if you're one of them, you should be outraged. Assholes like McClure, and yes he is a total asshole -- that's his whole shtick after all -- poisons the well for us all. We must be unequivocal in renouncing this type of shit. If he wants redemption and kudos he has to earn it, an apology on medium is just the first (small) step. Any less, and you provide justification and cover for the next asshole to behave similarly. His success, contributions to the tech community, whatever, does not justify him demeaning and putting another human being in a shit position -- moreso because he has the power, and by his own admission, knowingly abused it to take advantage over someone is a weaker position. Apologies, no matter how sincere, don't make up for the years of anxiety, therapy, etc. that stuff like this can cause.
• coss 9y ago
  Reading these comments makes me really depressed for the future of our society. Let me get this straight - 1. Don't go out with co-workers. 2. Don't make friends with co-workers. 3. Def. never drink with co-workers. Have we really become this sensitive? There's a voice in me that's screaming 'fuck off' to this kind of attitude. I can't quite articulate why it infuriates me so much.
  • agentdrtran 9y ago
    What are you talking about? You can do all of those things, just don't hit on them!
    • deleted 9y ago
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  • wyager 9y ago
    All emotions must be eliminated from public interaction. All social processes must be bureaucratically authorized. Don't forget to take your Prozium and sign your consent forms.
    • coss 9y ago
      :)
  • orthoganol 9y ago
    It's really just bothersome in as much as the accusations cross into involuntary territory when in the presence of someone you are attracted to. Lingering eye contact, vibe change, getting in a cheery mood that makes you want to crack a joke (light flirting), is involuntary for most around people they are attracted to. It has nothing in common with overtly hitting on someone, yet such involuntary responses do sometimes get policed in the same way. I could see someone leveling against a man, "Your vibe changes when a pretty girl walks in." or "You make extra eye contact with her." and I have to wonder if people are indeed mixing those types of claims with the serious ones when they call out figures like Chris Sacca or McClure. If so, there should probably be a discussion...
• siliconc0w 9y ago
  To make this a bit more abstract: Bob is a big wheel over at SomeCompany. Bob is outside work drinking with some friends, say Eve, and runs into Alice. Alice joins them and while she doesn't currently work for SomeCompany she indicates to Bob she would like to join. Bob, like most people, hangs out with a lot of people with similar interests/skill-sets/abilities. As the night wanes, Bob flirts with Alice. Alice declines Bob's advances. SomeCompany ends up not hiring Alice. So where are we on the morality meter here? First, it is clearly inappropriate to flirt with people you may want to hire. Obviously. But the empathetic side of the argument is that just because you're a big wheel at the cracker factory that shouldn't mean you can never go 'off the clock' and do things humans tend to do like try to get laid. Work and life have become so blended for so many people it's unrealistic to expect this not to happen. We created this culture of 'living to work' and this is a consequence. We should expect these sorts of messy situations to occur and build sane rules/expectations around them. But go ahead and throw stones/downvote/ act outraged. That'll solve the problem.
  • chasing 9y ago
    I think you're right: Alice has established from the start that it's a professional relationship. Continuing to flirt with her is inappropriate. There's no work-life balance element to this: Bob's welcomed to try to get laid. But he should find someone else. Other fish in the sea. For better or worse, that's one of the trade-offs of being a "big wheel." You have to consider how your actions might affect a whole constellation of people around you.
    • deleted 9y ago
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• lapsock 9y ago
  Dear lord. 250 comments in 3 hours about GOSSIP. Are you people even adults? Did someone hurt your fee-fees by hitting on you? how about acting like an ADULT? Looking at his pictures now I can see why this happened. He should try going to the gym and whitening his teeth.
• triplohe 9y ago
  Dude is 50 years old, teeth are not good, body not good at all... and he's trying to hit on 30 year olds who are way out of his league... come on man... have some common sense. If you want to get that top notch just pay for it.
• luord 9y ago
  I'm not going to congratulate this guy or call him brave or anything, and I'm just going to mention that I consider this proof that speaking up against unfair treatment (in this case, harassment) can have an impact. The only thing I'm going to commend about this post is that it's nice that he's trying not to bring the company (and thus, his colleagues) down with him.
  • jjeaff 9y ago
    Presumably a large amount of his net worth is tied up in this company. So of course he doesn't want to take it down.
• sauronlord 9y ago
  What is going on lately? This has reached bizzaro epic insanity. Anyone that has a full background in evolutionary biology and sexual dynamics knows what is going on here. Everyone else is playing a game and taking the usual, presently socially acceptable, positions. First, a few things to remind people of: 1. The Female sex is the Chooser in the Human species. She decides whether a baby is made, brought to term, and nourished to grow into a human being. 2. Men approach and initiate in vast majority of relationships. 3. Sperm are cheap and plentiful (why we send men, not women, to war) 4. Eggs are relatively rare and few. (Why we don't offer equal employment to women to earn big pay in coal mines) 5. You can repopulate the planet with 3 billion women and 1 man. But you cannot repopulate with 3 billion men and 1 women. These are facts, not opinions. If you are repulsed by this or downvote me. Then you are ignorant of biological reality. Now, what is happening lately is the complete domination of society by the Feminist Imperative. - There is no gender wage gap when controlled for equal life choices. Yet myth is propagated like gospel. -1/4th women get domestically abused. 1/5th men get domestically abused. 99.99% of shelters are for women only. Only couple men shelters in USA. - Rape of men is just as prevalent as women (I dare you to look this up and do yout research). Oh... men can't be raped because they need erections? Think again. Women's vagina's also lubricate when being raped. Does not mean consent is given. - Most men in prison and get harsher sentence for same crimes as women. -Suicide rate is through the roof for men - 60% of college enrollments are women - women under 30 get preferred 2 to 1 over equally qualified males. These are facts. Don't get upset with me. The ONLY difference between a creep and a hot stud of a man flirting with you is THIS: A woman will consider a playful comment, a wink, or asking her on a date to be creepy if she's not into you and if your SMV (Sexual Market Value) is lower than hers.
• camgunz 9y ago
  I think it's clear from these comments that all companies, everywhere, are doing a terrible job with their sexual harassment training. When otherwise highly intelligent and educated people haven't even heard of power imbalance or hostile work environments, or "intent is irrelevant", this is a huge problem. If you're running a company, please make it a priority to start real, meaningful sexual harassment training right now. Good god.
  • draw_down 9y ago
    I couldn't believe the guy here who was like, sure I heard the constant accusations, but I never believed they were actually true! I mean, what will it take to make people believe that this problem is real?!
• GenealogyMoral 9y ago
  Moral of the story is: if you are a white male and have money/power in SV be INCREDIBLY careful what you say in irrevocable written communication. Do not even try to joke around. You must be as low key as possible. If you act like a geniune human being and go over the line one time you are done.
• Skylled 9y ago
  I don't like this world where every social interaction could have drastic, long-lasting effects on my reputation. Where every employee's word/deed is taken as a company action, unless otherwise specified. I'm human, and I'm fallible. I will make, or have already made, a bad decision that someone else will be able to hold over me for the rest of my life. People need to be allowed to make mistakes so they can learn from them. Not be crucified to make an example for others. Good for him for apologizing. I don't envy his position. It's lonely at the top.
• josh_carterPDX 9y ago
  This is a very Dave-like apology and I hope it leads to meaningful change for him as it's clearly creating a bigger conversation. I believe in second chances and I really hope we see Dave back into the trenches. He's done a lot for the industry and it'll be interesting to see if he's welcomed back.
• salmonellaeater 9y ago
  Assuming McClure follows through by 1) refraining from harassing any more people and 2) making things right with the particular people he hurt, it doesn't matter whether he is sincere or not. How would you even tell what's in his mind? What matters is that he has changed the common knowledge of what behavior he publicly endorses (or in this case, condemns) [1]. His apology is proof of sorts that he will follow a better standard of behavior, because now he stands to be treated as a liar and hypocrite on top of the normal punishment if he backslides. From our side, if we as a community continue to denigrate him even after he has done the most he possibly could to change the moral consensus on this topic for the better, we're going to discourage others from apologizing and drive them to deny. Why bear the cost of admitting you're wrong if there's no benefit? [1] I highly recommend Rational Ritual: Culture, Coordination, and Common Knowledge by Michael Suk-Young Chwe for a game-theoretic exploration of topics like this. http://press.princeton.edu/titles/9998.html http://press.princeton.edu/titles/9998.html
• throwaway05285 9y ago
  It's interesting how the NYTs conveniently left out the context of the interaction. The article let us assume that Sarah had been in a formal interview process with Dave and them he sent some random inappropriate message. They didn't say that they were out late drinking in a social situation and she asked about a job and then he sent her he message. So we really don't actually know the context of their social interaction. If any man with power hits on a girl in a social environment, is this now somehow sexual harassment because this was pretty gray and feels like a social justice hit job. Is Sarah wanted to keep this purely professional shouldn't she have made her advance outside this social context? I'm not saying Sarah was guilty of this, but attractive women do use their sexuality as a tool and we've sent out mob justice on Dave without knowing the full story.
• deleted 9y ago
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• throwaway05285 9y ago
  Dave's biggest mistake here was actually referring her for a job after this interaction. In the absence of that, it was a late night social event with alcohol where Dave made a pass on a girl (who may or may not have been signaling that this was appropriate as she was angling for a job) and she didn't show interest. End of story.
• ge96 9y ago
  This is how I feel anytime I want to ask a girl out, that I'll come across as a creep haha. I should probably stop watching them through their window. Edit: this reminds me of the Dove guy from American Apparel happened to listen to some podcasts (too many) about him. I just wish I believed in myself more and wasn't so hesitant/worry about "getting in trouble"
• anon_lastname 9y ago
  What a bunch of retarded drama fuck everybody here
• masondixon 9y ago
  > During the recruiting process, Mr. McClure, a founder of 500 Startups and an investor, sent her a Facebook message that read in part, “I was getting confused figuring out whether to hire you or hit on you.” Its interesting to think about what this would be like if the roles were reversed. The VC was female, and the applicant was male. As a male in this situation I see this as completely neutral, even positive. If the founder likes me, then I have more chance of getting a highly sought after role which I might not have otherwise - as no company really hires solely on merit anyway. As a male, if there is a female HR contact, I would always welcome them flirting with me, as it only increases my chances of getting the job by giving me points when there are subjective evaluations required. If I was single and interested in this female VC its a clear opening for a date. If I am attracted to her, I could have a date. If not, I could just laugh it off and say I'm already seeing someone. Life moves on. Now if I push back an advance, they might get petty and decide to not hire me as some kind of revenge, or otherwise, they may be more likely to hire me because they want me around. --- Now, obviously this is not a 1-1 analogous situation because of the world as it is today. Some notable differences... - There are more male VCs than females. - There are probably less female applicants for such positions. - Males are the physically stronger sex. - Males are more likely to make advances than females (is this true?). So I am interested in which of these above variables must be inverted to change my reaction. I need to think more on it. But an interesting aspect is that, perhaps males think like this, and therefore think its okay. I am guessing that its the other gender imbalance variables that make this not applicable vise-versa, which is harder for males to play out in their mind.
  • bichiliad 9y ago
    I'm not sure I totally agree with your comments. In particular: > Now if I push back an advance, they might get petty and decide to not hire me as some kind of revenge I think this is precisely the reason that it's inappropriate, regardless of gender. Even if you (as a hypothetical VC) aren't going to be petty (and let's be honest, emotions are complicated and keeping feelings out of a decision is hard), you've put out the idea that your advances are somehow related to the recruitment process. This will totally make someone uncomfortable, especially when they're probably already sweating about the recruiting process.
• deleted 9y ago
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• r3vo 9y ago
  Can someone explain to me what he did exactly? I know he messaged a woman saying "I don't know if I should hire you or hit on you." What kind of environment were they in? Were they hanging out socially or professionally? Was she formally in a recruitment process with his firm? It seems to me that they were in a socially ambiguous situation and that McClure interpreted the environment wrong and did some innocuous flirting. This doesn't seem like a huge deal to me. This stepping down from his job and public self-flagellation seems overblown to me but I feel like I may not fully understand what his actions exactly were.
• throwaway47861 9y ago
  Meh, nice-written copy-paste apology I guess. It changes nothing. In my eyes he has a stain for life. Exactly how it should be.