5 ms·

I've been in a temporary situation where I faced many of the issues I think poor people face. What happens when you are that poor is that you realise the huge m

by jeb 16y ago

I've been in a temporary situation where I faced many of the issues I think poor people face. What happens when you are that poor is that you realise the huge mountain above you that you have to overcome to going back to where normal people are, and you just kind of accept where you are now and potter along and try to survive everyday without considering all too much how to get out. For example, I had $4000 debt. There was no way in hell I could ever pay that money back, considering that I made $900/month which did not cover my monthly expenses. So let's say a month ends where I spend $800 and only have $100 left. Am I going to stick it towards paying off the debt or just buy some new shoes or so? That debt is so huge that I know that saving $100 will still take me so many years, that I just accept the debt and go buy myself some shoes. Poverty starts when you resign yourself to being poor. A friend of mine is poor - I called him to lunch and brought out $5000 and I told him that if he can think of any idea at all for a business, I would invest these $5000 in his business. I would not check his idea, I would not bother him if it was viable, I would simply give him the money. Up until today, he has not come to me to pick up the cash. But he still complains about how he has no money. That's the thing - he is resigned to being poor. Becoming rich will mean a lot of work, it's an ardous and long task, and I really don't think he wants to do it, even when the money is offered to him in that manner.

Flemlord 16y ago
Part of your friend's reluctance may simply be a lack of desire to start his own business. I've made similar offers to select family members (with higher dollar amounts) and nobody has taken me up on a single offer. When I ask them why not, they tell me they don't want to take the risk of starting their own business... then go right back to complaining about their horrible boss/small salary/current situation.
- migpwr 16y ago
  I think the two of you might be overlooking some of the social pressure involved in taking thousands of dollars from a close friend. If I made that offer to any one of my friends, they'd turn it down every time. They might say it's impossible, or come up with some other excuse, but most of the reluctance will come from having to see me again if their idea fails. If you changed your offer to something like, "Hey, I've got about $5k laying around, and I want to start a business, are you interested? What do you think we should do?", you'd probably see more action. I personally think this has more to do with your friendship than the idea of your friends being mentally "poor".
  - ekanes 16y ago
    Agreed, but the reason you'd see more action is that they wouldn't be in it alone. Starting a business is hard, and people feel pretty lost. In making that offer you'd have to consider whether or not you want (and can commit to!) truly starting a business with your friend, versus just saying you will so they'll do something. It's not an offer to make lightly.
  - tansey 16y ago
    I think that's spot on. He may not have any idea what to do with the money, and he doesn't want to just waste your money and lose your friendship. If we were friends and I came to you and said "Look, I've got $50,000 I'm willing to invest if you can just come up with a new drug idea and start it," you would probably tell me you have no idea how to do pharmaceutical research. Well, most people have no idea how to start a business.
  - jeb 16y ago
    Of course, that could be, but what I am offering him is money I don't need, FOR OUR FRIENDSHIP. I know that the money is likely to be lost, and I have already taken that into consideration. I want him to also TRY, also make that step and stop complaining. If I really wanted something, and someone offered me the opportunity to do it, yes, it may fail and I may lose that friendship, but if that stops me, it means I don't believe in myself enough! It may fail, but it may also succeed! Yes, failure in this case may also mean losing a friend, so the stakes are a little bit higher, but as a friend, he knows that I know he is likely to lose the money. So even if he fails, I will just smile and be happy that at least he tried. But it's the same trap, you see? He does not want to do it, because he is afraid of failing, and losing money and the friendship. So he can say no, and give that as his excuse, but is that any different from any other excuse? In this case, I could posit that the risk is even less because I am there to help him, if the money is gone he will not be in debt, he will just be back to where he started. And you know what? Sooner or later, friends who don't stay at the same socio-economic level drift apart. Yes, there are exceptions, but in most cases people have friends in the same economic class. So people try to bring their friends up, like I try to do, and the friends who don't even want to try, will sooner or later lose that friendship that they don't want to risk.
- dagw 16y ago
  There are many unspoken social rules surrounding money that I think both of you are overlooking. Possibly a main reason they haven't taken your money is that they realize that there is very good chance that they'll lose it all and have nothing to show at the end. They probably fear that the potential negative consequences this will have on your long term relationship is too great to risk taking the money.
- pavel_lishin 16y ago
  Starting a business isn't a cure for a horrible boss and a small salary. Most businesses fail, and in the meanwhile you suddenly have N horrible bosses, N being your number of customers.
uast23 16y ago
I totally vouch for the idea of "resigning to being poor". This is what ruins people. I understand that poor people face lot of difficulties and not everyone gets an opportunity what your poor friend got in terms of 5000 cash; but the people who get it are too busy complaining about their poverty rather than working on it and this develops as a life long attitude. It's not that none of the poor people have been able to become rich. There are stories where a poor person alone has created history for himself and lots of other poor people too. If people start working towards their poverty, I think we might have a better face soon.
tarkin2 16y ago
I would say "don't think he wants to do it" is more precisely "don't think he thinks he can do it". Speaking with those in charities helping the long term unemployed, I've heard the "I won't be able to/can't do this" phrase much more than "I don't want to do it". It seems to be more about self-belief and confidence than motivation. After all, no-one wants to be poorer than the norm and without work.
loewenskind 16y ago
There's truth in what you say but on your $5k offer, does this friend have a job? If not ok, but if so you're asking him to quit his job for a sum that wouldn't even get him through a year. I wouldn't take it either, $5k is nothing.
- jeb 16y ago
  He had no job, was working part-time at some place that barely paid $400 a month. His wife pays for most of his expenses.
  - loewenskind 16y ago
    Ah, in that case I guess he is either lazy or scared. If you would pay my salary for a year to let me work on any business I want, I would quit today. :)
almost 16y ago
Your friend probably doesn't want to be $5000 in debt to the kind of guy who whips out $5000 at lunch. You most probably already make him feel pretty crappy about himself as it is.
- jeb 16y ago
  Well...I did it to prove to him that I actually have the money and it's his for the taking, and I'm not just talking idly. I don't really think he is aware that I have a lot more money than he does, since we hang out the same way we've hung out for a long time.
  - almost 16y ago
    I'm sure you didn't mean it that way but that's not exactly the most sensitive way to handle things. I really wouldn't be drawing too many conclusions about your friend from his reaction to that. I'm pretty sure I'd never take money from someone in (or after) the kind of situation you describe.
    - jeb 16y ago
      I absolutely know what you mean, and there are many friends I would not do something like that with. But with this particular friend, it's okay. He won't perceive it in the same way as some other friends I have. It's like with some friends you can slap them on the ass and some you would not dream of it - bringing out this cash with this friend is not something strange or unusual considering the particular relationship we have. I get what you mean though, but I know how I usually interact with this friend, and this is basically not such an unusual or insulting act. You just have to trust that I can guage correctly our relationship. Perhaps I am wrong and in-fact, this was perceived wrong, but I believe not.
      - almost 16y ago
        I'm not sure I do trust you to gauge things correctly when your explanation for his refusal is "he wants to be poor".
blhack 16y ago
I imagine that your friend doesn't think he could pay the $5000 back to you. He probably doesn't want to feel like a mooch. I think a better way of approaching it would be to say that you weren't going to just give him money, but that you wanted to partner with him on it. You'll be the money guy, he can be the idea guy.
mynameishere 16y ago
called him to lunch and brought out $5000 and I told him that if he can think of any idea at all for a business, I would invest these $5000 in his business This is incredibly insulting, and it blows my mind that you could be so oblivious.
- sliverstorm 16y ago
  If I was down and out, and somebody offered me a pair of bootstraps by which to pull myself up, I do not think 'he insulted me' would be on my list of reasons to reject the offer. Of course, that may just be me.
  - waterlesscloud 16y ago
    Hey, at least he has his pride, right?
bigtech 16y ago
Maybe your 'poor' friend is smart enough to know that $5000 is not enough to start a new business.
Xurinos 16y ago
How did you climb out of your situation and mindset?
- jeb 16y ago
  What happened is that I took a risk, and let's just say I lost even more than before. I had to move in with my parents, and I think that's what really changed my attitude. Because before, I was just hanging on. Like, every month I made just enough to get by, so there was no reason not to wake up, go work, then download movies from the piratebay and watch tv shows and waste half the day. But then I did this thing and could not afford to that. So I moved in with my parents, and I was just so ashamed that I would wake up early in the morning and work till late at night every single day, weekends and weekdays. When I had saved enough to move back out and get my own place, somehow that attitude just stuck and really, if you just work really long days, money comes. Wake up early, work till night, don't have too many friends, don't watch TV and within a year you can afford most anything.
  - mlLK 16y ago
    But were you still working for $900 month? You had to to make some additional change after you moved out again otherwise, regardless of your financial cushion, you would have fallen back into the same cycle. Did you change jobs? Re-evaluate and improve upon your current (past) skill-set while living w/ your parents? Go back to school?
    - jeb 16y ago
      Gave up my non-programming job and did programming jobs for clients. Was there for the clients all the time, answer emails within 15 minutes, tell them how best to make their software. I could have done this before I lived with my parents, but just didn't care enough, I guess. Going back to school is something I did LATER, and frankly, it did not have as big an effect as just working hard for others.
  - loewenskind 16y ago
    > if you just work really long days, money comes. Uhm... It's not that simple at all. If you work for some big company in a cubical, working really long days probably wont help you at all. Do you mean working for yourself long days? That isn't guaranteed either. Perhaps you just mean entry level-ish hourly jobs?
snorkel 16y ago
Me too. I had a creative friend, a borderline poverty case with a lot of energy and interesting business ideas, but lack of capital, so I purchased startup equipment to get something going, and immediately my would-be business partner seized the opportunity with full enthusiasm by learning the equipment, then using that equipment, and countless hours of time and energy all to attain level 80 in World of Warcraft. I could only shake my head in disbelief.

by jeb 16y ago

Flemlord 16y ago

Part of your friend's reluctance may simply be a lack of desire to start his own business. I've made similar offers to select family members (with higher dollar amounts) and nobody has taken me up on a single offer. When I ask them why not, they tell me they don't want to take the risk of starting their own business... then go right back to complaining about their horrible boss/small salary/current situation.

migpwr 16y ago
I think the two of you might be overlooking some of the social pressure involved in taking thousands of dollars from a close friend. If I made that offer to any one of my friends, they'd turn it down every time. They might say it's impossible, or come up with some other excuse, but most of the reluctance will come from having to see me again if their idea fails. If you changed your offer to something like, "Hey, I've got about $5k laying around, and I want to start a business, are you interested? What do you think we should do?", you'd probably see more action. I personally think this has more to do with your friendship than the idea of your friends being mentally "poor".
- ekanes 16y ago
  Agreed, but the reason you'd see more action is that they wouldn't be in it alone. Starting a business is hard, and people feel pretty lost. In making that offer you'd have to consider whether or not you want (and can commit to!) truly starting a business with your friend, versus just saying you will so they'll do something. It's not an offer to make lightly.
- tansey 16y ago
  I think that's spot on. He may not have any idea what to do with the money, and he doesn't want to just waste your money and lose your friendship. If we were friends and I came to you and said "Look, I've got $50,000 I'm willing to invest if you can just come up with a new drug idea and start it," you would probably tell me you have no idea how to do pharmaceutical research. Well, most people have no idea how to start a business.
- jeb 16y ago
  Of course, that could be, but what I am offering him is money I don't need, FOR OUR FRIENDSHIP. I know that the money is likely to be lost, and I have already taken that into consideration. I want him to also TRY, also make that step and stop complaining. If I really wanted something, and someone offered me the opportunity to do it, yes, it may fail and I may lose that friendship, but if that stops me, it means I don't believe in myself enough! It may fail, but it may also succeed! Yes, failure in this case may also mean losing a friend, so the stakes are a little bit higher, but as a friend, he knows that I know he is likely to lose the money. So even if he fails, I will just smile and be happy that at least he tried. But it's the same trap, you see? He does not want to do it, because he is afraid of failing, and losing money and the friendship. So he can say no, and give that as his excuse, but is that any different from any other excuse? In this case, I could posit that the risk is even less because I am there to help him, if the money is gone he will not be in debt, he will just be back to where he started. And you know what? Sooner or later, friends who don't stay at the same socio-economic level drift apart. Yes, there are exceptions, but in most cases people have friends in the same economic class. So people try to bring their friends up, like I try to do, and the friends who don't even want to try, will sooner or later lose that friendship that they don't want to risk.
dagw 16y ago
There are many unspoken social rules surrounding money that I think both of you are overlooking. Possibly a main reason they haven't taken your money is that they realize that there is very good chance that they'll lose it all and have nothing to show at the end. They probably fear that the potential negative consequences this will have on your long term relationship is too great to risk taking the money.
pavel_lishin 16y ago
Starting a business isn't a cure for a horrible boss and a small salary. Most businesses fail, and in the meanwhile you suddenly have N horrible bosses, N being your number of customers.

uast23 16y ago

I totally vouch for the idea of "resigning to being poor". This is what ruins people. I understand that poor people face lot of difficulties and not everyone gets an opportunity what your poor friend got in terms of 5000 cash; but the people who get it are too busy complaining about their poverty rather than working on it and this develops as a life long attitude. It's not that none of the poor people have been able to become rich. There are stories where a poor person alone has created history for himself and lots of other poor people too. If people start working towards their poverty, I think we might have a better face soon.

tarkin2 16y ago

I would say "don't think he wants to do it" is more precisely "don't think he thinks he can do it". Speaking with those in charities helping the long term unemployed, I've heard the "I won't be able to/can't do this" phrase much more than "I don't want to do it". It seems to be more about self-belief and confidence than motivation. After all, no-one wants to be poorer than the norm and without work.

loewenskind 16y ago

There's truth in what you say but on your $5k offer, does this friend have a job? If not ok, but if so you're asking him to quit his job for a sum that wouldn't even get him through a year. I wouldn't take it either, $5k is nothing.

jeb 16y ago
He had no job, was working part-time at some place that barely paid $400 a month. His wife pays for most of his expenses.
- loewenskind 16y ago
  Ah, in that case I guess he is either lazy or scared. If you would pay my salary for a year to let me work on any business I want, I would quit today. :)

almost 16y ago

Your friend probably doesn't want to be $5000 in debt to the kind of guy who whips out $5000 at lunch. You most probably already make him feel pretty crappy about himself as it is.

jeb 16y ago
Well...I did it to prove to him that I actually have the money and it's his for the taking, and I'm not just talking idly. I don't really think he is aware that I have a lot more money than he does, since we hang out the same way we've hung out for a long time.
- almost 16y ago
  I'm sure you didn't mean it that way but that's not exactly the most sensitive way to handle things. I really wouldn't be drawing too many conclusions about your friend from his reaction to that. I'm pretty sure I'd never take money from someone in (or after) the kind of situation you describe.
  - jeb 16y ago
    I absolutely know what you mean, and there are many friends I would not do something like that with. But with this particular friend, it's okay. He won't perceive it in the same way as some other friends I have. It's like with some friends you can slap them on the ass and some you would not dream of it - bringing out this cash with this friend is not something strange or unusual considering the particular relationship we have. I get what you mean though, but I know how I usually interact with this friend, and this is basically not such an unusual or insulting act. You just have to trust that I can guage correctly our relationship. Perhaps I am wrong and in-fact, this was perceived wrong, but I believe not.
    - almost 16y ago
      I'm not sure I do trust you to gauge things correctly when your explanation for his refusal is "he wants to be poor".

blhack 16y ago

I imagine that your friend doesn't think he could pay the $5000 back to you. He probably doesn't want to feel like a mooch. I think a better way of approaching it would be to say that you weren't going to just give him money, but that you wanted to partner with him on it. You'll be the money guy, he can be the idea guy.

mynameishere 16y ago

called him to lunch and brought out $5000 and I told him that if he can think of any idea at all for a business, I would invest these $5000 in his business This is incredibly insulting, and it blows my mind that you could be so oblivious.

sliverstorm 16y ago
If I was down and out, and somebody offered me a pair of bootstraps by which to pull myself up, I do not think 'he insulted me' would be on my list of reasons to reject the offer. Of course, that may just be me.
- waterlesscloud 16y ago
  Hey, at least he has his pride, right?

bigtech 16y ago

Maybe your 'poor' friend is smart enough to know that $5000 is not enough to start a new business.

Xurinos 16y ago

How did you climb out of your situation and mindset?

jeb 16y ago
What happened is that I took a risk, and let's just say I lost even more than before. I had to move in with my parents, and I think that's what really changed my attitude. Because before, I was just hanging on. Like, every month I made just enough to get by, so there was no reason not to wake up, go work, then download movies from the piratebay and watch tv shows and waste half the day. But then I did this thing and could not afford to that. So I moved in with my parents, and I was just so ashamed that I would wake up early in the morning and work till late at night every single day, weekends and weekdays. When I had saved enough to move back out and get my own place, somehow that attitude just stuck and really, if you just work really long days, money comes. Wake up early, work till night, don't have too many friends, don't watch TV and within a year you can afford most anything.
- mlLK 16y ago
  But were you still working for $900 month? You had to to make some additional change after you moved out again otherwise, regardless of your financial cushion, you would have fallen back into the same cycle. Did you change jobs? Re-evaluate and improve upon your current (past) skill-set while living w/ your parents? Go back to school?
  - jeb 16y ago
    Gave up my non-programming job and did programming jobs for clients. Was there for the clients all the time, answer emails within 15 minutes, tell them how best to make their software. I could have done this before I lived with my parents, but just didn't care enough, I guess. Going back to school is something I did LATER, and frankly, it did not have as big an effect as just working hard for others.
- loewenskind 16y ago
  > if you just work really long days, money comes. Uhm... It's not that simple at all. If you work for some big company in a cubical, working really long days probably wont help you at all. Do you mean working for yourself long days? That isn't guaranteed either. Perhaps you just mean entry level-ish hourly jobs?

snorkel 16y ago

Me too. I had a creative friend, a borderline poverty case with a lot of energy and interesting business ideas, but lack of capital, so I purchased startup equipment to get something going, and immediately my would-be business partner seized the opportunity with full enthusiasm by learning the equipment, then using that equipment, and countless hours of time and energy all to attain level 80 in World of Warcraft. I could only shake my head in disbelief.