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For americans a train is socialism. They need their V8s for crawling walking speed on the 4 lane highway burning a ton of fossil fuels. Actually the bigger the

For americans a train is socialism. They need their V8s for crawling walking speed on the 4 lane highway burning a ton of fossil fuels. Actually the bigger the truck the better since it means freedom (or something). ;-)

wizardforhire 9y ago
I'd love to disagree but my experience tells me otherwise. Several of my mentors are opposed to rail for these exact reasons, although not as bluntly. Rolling coal is a real thing.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
zkms 9y ago
To quote a thread about that (cultural ideas around automobiles vs rail) I saw on twitter: "Americans tend to think that there's no way everyone would use trains unless forced to by lack of alternatives. This is projection because their experience with cars is exactly that: forced to by lack of alternatives. Do you think nobody in Japan drives? The country that gave us Toyota, Nissan, Honda, Subaru, Mitsubishi, Suzuki, etc etc, isn't without a domestic market lmao" (https://twitter.com/380kmh/status/879463196284858369 https://twitter.com/380kmh/status/879463196284858369)
taurath 9y ago
Go walk up to someone in LA or Seattle and ask them if they could would they take a train into work instead if it cut the time in traffic down. I'll bet very few people would say no.
- cylinder 9y ago
  Just like how majority of Americans want universal healthcare and want more gun control and less war too. But they don't get it. We should just admit we live in an oligarchy and go from there.
- CalRobert 9y ago
  Trains in LA have done well (buses not so much). This is despite the trains being crowded and not quite as on-time as they ought to be. 405 and 10 are a living hell; plenty of folks inching along them would rather not be. http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/arts/la-ca-cm-building-type-expo-line-20170521-story.html http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/arts/la-ca-cm-building-...
protomyth 9y ago
I'm pretty sure my American farmer friends do not think the trains that are filled by the grain elevator to deliver their produce to market are any form of socialism.
tptacek 9y ago
This doesn't make any sense. It's not like Americans don't undertake long-range travel; Americans routinely visit other American cities thousands of miles from their homes. It's simply that Americans do that with commercial air, not with rail. If there's something more "socialistic" than being crammed cheek-to-jowl with other people in the back of an airplane, I don't know what it is. Are you perhaps confusing the debate about American high-speed rail with the debate about American commuter rail? There are probably cultural reasons why Americans don't use public transportation as much as Europeans, but that's got nothing to do with HSR, which connects large cities, not suburbs.
- saghm 9y ago
  > If there's something more "socialistic" than being crammed cheek-to-jowl with other people in the back of an airplane, I don't know what it is. Well, there's still the "people who can afford exorbitant prices can get much more legroom and service and be separated from those who can't" thing going on there
  - tptacek 9y ago
    Business class seats are about as comfortable as European train seats, so I'm not sure what there is to learn from this.
    - saghm 9y ago
      First class is much more comfortable than coach class, though, which was my point
  - gsnedders 9y ago
    So have multiple classes in trains! Heck, look at what some of the high-speed trains in Italy have as their top product (https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8810/17082308250_62443948ff_z.jpg https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8810/17082308250_62443948ff_z...). Admittedly only 10 per train, but still. And that's on top of three lower classes!
patrickg_zill 9y ago
A train means being trapped. USA light rail has been run so poorly that no one thinks they can depend over the long term on rail. The trust in rail as a solution has been so greatly eroded, that people will always want to have a car as a backup. And since they own a car anyways (under this scenario) ...
- dgudkov 9y ago
  A plane means not just being trapped, but also air-tightly locked, fastened to seat, and brought to a 30'000 feet altitude.
  - patrickg_zill 9y ago
    But no one is trying to convince me that a plane should be my only method of transportation, and that a car is not needed. Further, I don't use a plane to commute, at least not at my level of pay :)
pheldagryph 9y ago
I'm an American that strongly opposes HSR. My position is well thought out, and supported by relevant literature. I don't match your insipid cultural stereotype at all.
dang 9y ago
National slurs aren't allowed here (not of any nation) and will get your account banned, so please don't do it again.

wizardforhire 9y ago

I'd love to disagree but my experience tells me otherwise. Several of my mentors are opposed to rail for these exact reasons, although not as bluntly. Rolling coal is a real thing.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

zkms 9y ago

To quote a thread about that (cultural ideas around automobiles vs rail) I saw on twitter: "Americans tend to think that there's no way everyone would use trains unless forced to by lack of alternatives. This is projection because their experience with cars is exactly that: forced to by lack of alternatives. Do you think nobody in Japan drives? The country that gave us Toyota, Nissan, Honda, Subaru, Mitsubishi, Suzuki, etc etc, isn't without a domestic market lmao" (https://twitter.com/380kmh/status/879463196284858369 https://twitter.com/380kmh/status/879463196284858369)

taurath 9y ago

Go walk up to someone in LA or Seattle and ask them if they could would they take a train into work instead if it cut the time in traffic down. I'll bet very few people would say no.

cylinder 9y ago
Just like how majority of Americans want universal healthcare and want more gun control and less war too. But they don't get it. We should just admit we live in an oligarchy and go from there.
CalRobert 9y ago
Trains in LA have done well (buses not so much). This is despite the trains being crowded and not quite as on-time as they ought to be. 405 and 10 are a living hell; plenty of folks inching along them would rather not be. http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/arts/la-ca-cm-building-type-expo-line-20170521-story.html http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/arts/la-ca-cm-building-...

protomyth 9y ago

I'm pretty sure my American farmer friends do not think the trains that are filled by the grain elevator to deliver their produce to market are any form of socialism.

tptacek 9y ago

This doesn't make any sense. It's not like Americans don't undertake long-range travel; Americans routinely visit other American cities thousands of miles from their homes. It's simply that Americans do that with commercial air, not with rail. If there's something more "socialistic" than being crammed cheek-to-jowl with other people in the back of an airplane, I don't know what it is. Are you perhaps confusing the debate about American high-speed rail with the debate about American commuter rail? There are probably cultural reasons why Americans don't use public transportation as much as Europeans, but that's got nothing to do with HSR, which connects large cities, not suburbs.

saghm 9y ago
> If there's something more "socialistic" than being crammed cheek-to-jowl with other people in the back of an airplane, I don't know what it is. Well, there's still the "people who can afford exorbitant prices can get much more legroom and service and be separated from those who can't" thing going on there
- tptacek 9y ago
  Business class seats are about as comfortable as European train seats, so I'm not sure what there is to learn from this.
  - saghm 9y ago
    First class is much more comfortable than coach class, though, which was my point
- gsnedders 9y ago
  So have multiple classes in trains! Heck, look at what some of the high-speed trains in Italy have as their top product (https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8810/17082308250_62443948ff_z.jpg https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8810/17082308250_62443948ff_z...). Admittedly only 10 per train, but still. And that's on top of three lower classes!

patrickg_zill 9y ago

A train means being trapped. USA light rail has been run so poorly that no one thinks they can depend over the long term on rail. The trust in rail as a solution has been so greatly eroded, that people will always want to have a car as a backup. And since they own a car anyways (under this scenario) ...

dgudkov 9y ago
A plane means not just being trapped, but also air-tightly locked, fastened to seat, and brought to a 30'000 feet altitude.
- patrickg_zill 9y ago
  But no one is trying to convince me that a plane should be my only method of transportation, and that a car is not needed. Further, I don't use a plane to commute, at least not at my level of pay :)

pheldagryph 9y ago

I'm an American that strongly opposes HSR. My position is well thought out, and supported by relevant literature. I don't match your insipid cultural stereotype at all.

dang 9y ago

National slurs aren't allowed here (not of any nation) and will get your account banned, so please don't do it again.