6 ms·

I dunno.. digital music just sounds better, is more consistent, portable, and all around easier to play than vinyl. Why stop there? Do you also churn your own

I dunno.. digital music just sounds better, is more consistent, portable, and all around easier to play than vinyl. Why stop there? Do you also churn your own butter, milk your own cows, shave with a straight razor? Personally, I think it's just silly hipster bias.

bitJericho 9y ago
I agree, for sure. That said, there's a lot to be said about listening to an entire album. I'm a huge fan of CDs for this reason. It's a good mix of Vinyl vs Digital. I know I'm getting perfect, uncompressed digital audio. My setup is designed for involved listening if I want it, and I do that mostly with CDs, rather than records. At the same time, if I want something new, or a cd I don't have, I just put on Spotify. There's no reason why you can't have it all.
- ovao 9y ago
  I'm a huge fan of CDs for this reason. I know I'm getting perfect, uncompressed digital audio. Ah, but you don't know! On Beck's Odelay Deluxe Edition release, for example, there are at least two tracks that came from a lossy source. I don't think it's something that happens often. But through some combination of factors it has happened before, and probably happens more often than people might be aware.
  - bitJericho 9y ago
    True. There's also issues with volume and with analog to digital conversions. But even still, almost any cd is better than it's analog equivalent in just about every measure.
    - ovao 9y ago
      Certainly true. Even some of the earliest CD masters are still very good, relatively. By most standards it took a fairly short amount of time for CD audio to reach a high standard for quality (loudness wars aside).
treehau5 9y ago
Why stop there? Do you write your own libraries, generate your own grammars, go through the logic of your program in your head? Personally, I think it's just silly hacker bias.
kasey_junk 9y ago
I'm not normally considered a hipster and I agree the advantage to vinyl is that it encourages active participation with music (and the art is better). I consume most of my music digitally essentially in the background but if I want to have a music listening session, alone or with friends, I reach for vinyl.
- ovao 9y ago
  I wonder though: how would you feel if a digital medium forced the a similar ritual? In other words, if the task you had to perform to get music playing was as involved as putting on a record, would you gain the same sense of satisfaction from it? Or would it just feel contrived?
  - kasey_junk 9y ago
    I'd probably be into it but why? I tend to buy new vinyl that comes with digital download or cheap second hand vinyl. This works for me.
ovao 9y ago
I think there's an argument for doing those things yourself if it's genuinely cheaper or of higher-quality, but you can't realistically make that argument with vinyl. I think with vinyl people are looking for more of a sense of ownership. It doesn't feel like you own an album, and don't get the feeling that it contributes to some part of you, when you click "save" in Spotify. It doesn't take any effort or any sacrifice (money) to do that, so it comes with no opportunity cost. But buying a record is more deliberate and usually means that your ownership of it comes at the expense of something else you'd instead buy with that money. I admit it's a pretty wishy-washy argument, but for most people, the prospect of buying a vinyl record has to be rooted in something psychological because objectively speaking there aren't very many good arguments for it.
tnecniv 9y ago
Why not enjoy both? I collect vinyl and listen to digital music all the time. If you buy new vinyls on Amazon, a lot of the time you can get the MP3s for free included. When I buy a vinyl, it's because it's a physical representation of music that I enjoy. A lot of time, there's a extra items included with the vinyl, like a small poster.
- criddell 9y ago
  I was going to say something about a false dichotomy, but you beat me to it. Discussions about music on vinyl is always interesting to observe. Collecting artifacts is such a prevalent part of nerd and geek culture that it's no wonder many of us love to collect and play records. At the same time, many of us are super focused on efficiency and specifications that listening to less than perfect reproductions where you have to physically manipulate the media makes no sense. I had a lot of records when I was younger and was happy to move on to CDs and now mp3 and streaming. If I had more space to devote to yet another collection, I would in a heartbeat.
skciva 9y ago
So you don't understand why people like something and dismiss it as silly hipster bias? Does everything have to be about efficiency and logical superiority? People enjoy the experience more and are spending money on it. How horrible.
- Frondo 9y ago
  Agreed. Let people like what they like. My deal is, that goes both ways. I've owned record players in the past, I've grown a sizeable vinyl collection, and I ended up selling it off because I'm living a much more mobile lifestyle now. If the OP gets a more "active" experience (whatever that means to them) out of listening to a record instead of putting a CD in a cd player, great, but what bugs me is there's always an undercurrent of "it's better this way". No, man, you just like it more. It's not "better" than listening to songs on an ipod or putting a CD on. And all this talk about "it sounds better" or whatever, it all boils down to assigning objective measures to an experience that is, at its core, subjective. No, it's still just your preference. (Some people actually like the analogue tape sound. To them it's "better".) Let people like what they like.
  - skciva 9y ago
    Yeah I think the "it sounds better" argument is silly. Personally I prefer records for these reasons: - If I want to share a record with a friend, theres a greater chance they'll just let it play as opposed to a bluetooth connected speaker, where everyone decides they want to be the DJ. - Having records often starts conversations. Its much more likely someone will see my records or ask to flip through them than say "Hey, can I peruse your Spotify library?" I like music and it's nice to connect about it without having to force a conversation with everyone I meet. That being said, I've often thought of living a "mobile" lifestyle like you mention, and if I do records would not be on my list of necessities.
- ksk 9y ago
  >So you don't understand why people like something and dismiss it as silly hipster bias? Yeah, it can seem annoying when someone does that to what you like, but all humans do this at some level. Its same thing as when someone insists that a $7,000 bottle of wine makes you sit down and have a personal experience with the wine, makes you appreciate the weight of the wine, its powerful robust swirling texture, and its assertive character. cue: eye-rolls >Does everything have to be about efficiency and logical superiority? No, but I bet you don't consult tarot cards before choosing your next job. >People enjoy the experience more and are spending money on it. How horrible. Agreed, leave people alone, people !!
cheeseprocedure 9y ago
Due to physical limitations of the medium, mastering the vinyl release of an album is often (usually?) a separate process than mastering the digital version. One of the consequences is less compression/clipping, better dynamic range, etc. for the vinyl version. This can have a huge positive impact on sound quality. You don't have to be a nutbar audiophile to appreciate it, either - you can even hear the difference between old rock albums and their heavily compressed re-releases. http://www.soundonsound.com/sound-advice/q-how-does-mastering-differ-vinyl-and-digital-releases http://www.soundonsound.com/sound-advice/q-how-does-masterin... http://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/end-loudness-war http://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/end-loudness-war
- eanzenberg 9y ago
  I think you'll get way more traction spending $ on better headphones/speakers/audio playing equipment and listening to digital than moving over to a turntable and vinyl collection.
  - hotgoldminer 9y ago
    Depends on whether the music was recorded/mastered using digital or analog equipment.
  - cc439 9y ago
    That's true up to a point but there are many classic albums and entire genres (jazz, big band music, beach music/swing music) where the only widely available digital offerings are horrifically mastered.
- consto 9y ago
  Maybe decades ago, but I find it hard to imagine any recording studio still having an analogue recording process. Sure the different mediums may call for different mastering, but the loudness war wasn't a result of limitations of tapes/CDs.
  - cc439 9y ago
lyime 9y ago
Yeah, you don't know. I listen to a ton of music that's only released on vinyl. For example, almost all records you find at Yoyako (https://www.yoyaku.io/ https://www.yoyaku.io/) are vinyl-only.
rquirk 9y ago
Straight razors are pretty popular still in shaving forums.
DiNovi 9y ago
uncompressed digital definitely does; but since most services dont offer that, its not what most people compare against
- ovao 9y ago
  You'll actually have a very difficult time finding a modern lossy encoder at sane settings that will produce anything worse than what's achievable with a vinyl record. Because modern oversampling D/A converters are also very good, very abundant and very inexpensive, you'll have a similarly difficult time finding a digital playback system that's more poorly-equipped at the task than a purely-analog playback system. From a purely technical perspective I'll pick a typical lossy file over vinyl every single time.
InclinedPlane 9y ago
You realize how ridiculous this is right? Why not just plug yourself into a VR headset and eat your meals in pill form?

bitJericho 9y ago

I agree, for sure. That said, there's a lot to be said about listening to an entire album. I'm a huge fan of CDs for this reason. It's a good mix of Vinyl vs Digital. I know I'm getting perfect, uncompressed digital audio. My setup is designed for involved listening if I want it, and I do that mostly with CDs, rather than records. At the same time, if I want something new, or a cd I don't have, I just put on Spotify. There's no reason why you can't have it all.

ovao 9y ago
I'm a huge fan of CDs for this reason. I know I'm getting perfect, uncompressed digital audio. Ah, but you don't know! On Beck's Odelay Deluxe Edition release, for example, there are at least two tracks that came from a lossy source. I don't think it's something that happens often. But through some combination of factors it has happened before, and probably happens more often than people might be aware.
- bitJericho 9y ago
  True. There's also issues with volume and with analog to digital conversions. But even still, almost any cd is better than it's analog equivalent in just about every measure.
  - ovao 9y ago
    Certainly true. Even some of the earliest CD masters are still very good, relatively. By most standards it took a fairly short amount of time for CD audio to reach a high standard for quality (loudness wars aside).

treehau5 9y ago

Why stop there? Do you write your own libraries, generate your own grammars, go through the logic of your program in your head? Personally, I think it's just silly hacker bias.

kasey_junk 9y ago

I'm not normally considered a hipster and I agree the advantage to vinyl is that it encourages active participation with music (and the art is better). I consume most of my music digitally essentially in the background but if I want to have a music listening session, alone or with friends, I reach for vinyl.

ovao 9y ago
I wonder though: how would you feel if a digital medium forced the a similar ritual? In other words, if the task you had to perform to get music playing was as involved as putting on a record, would you gain the same sense of satisfaction from it? Or would it just feel contrived?
- kasey_junk 9y ago
  I'd probably be into it but why? I tend to buy new vinyl that comes with digital download or cheap second hand vinyl. This works for me.

ovao 9y ago

I think there's an argument for doing those things yourself if it's genuinely cheaper or of higher-quality, but you can't realistically make that argument with vinyl. I think with vinyl people are looking for more of a sense of ownership. It doesn't feel like you own an album, and don't get the feeling that it contributes to some part of you, when you click "save" in Spotify. It doesn't take any effort or any sacrifice (money) to do that, so it comes with no opportunity cost. But buying a record is more deliberate and usually means that your ownership of it comes at the expense of something else you'd instead buy with that money. I admit it's a pretty wishy-washy argument, but for most people, the prospect of buying a vinyl record has to be rooted in something psychological because objectively speaking there aren't very many good arguments for it.

tnecniv 9y ago

Why not enjoy both? I collect vinyl and listen to digital music all the time. If you buy new vinyls on Amazon, a lot of the time you can get the MP3s for free included. When I buy a vinyl, it's because it's a physical representation of music that I enjoy. A lot of time, there's a extra items included with the vinyl, like a small poster.

criddell 9y ago
I was going to say something about a false dichotomy, but you beat me to it. Discussions about music on vinyl is always interesting to observe. Collecting artifacts is such a prevalent part of nerd and geek culture that it's no wonder many of us love to collect and play records. At the same time, many of us are super focused on efficiency and specifications that listening to less than perfect reproductions where you have to physically manipulate the media makes no sense. I had a lot of records when I was younger and was happy to move on to CDs and now mp3 and streaming. If I had more space to devote to yet another collection, I would in a heartbeat.

skciva 9y ago

So you don't understand why people like something and dismiss it as silly hipster bias? Does everything have to be about efficiency and logical superiority? People enjoy the experience more and are spending money on it. How horrible.

Frondo 9y ago
Agreed. Let people like what they like. My deal is, that goes both ways. I've owned record players in the past, I've grown a sizeable vinyl collection, and I ended up selling it off because I'm living a much more mobile lifestyle now. If the OP gets a more "active" experience (whatever that means to them) out of listening to a record instead of putting a CD in a cd player, great, but what bugs me is there's always an undercurrent of "it's better this way". No, man, you just like it more. It's not "better" than listening to songs on an ipod or putting a CD on. And all this talk about "it sounds better" or whatever, it all boils down to assigning objective measures to an experience that is, at its core, subjective. No, it's still just your preference. (Some people actually like the analogue tape sound. To them it's "better".) Let people like what they like.
- skciva 9y ago
  Yeah I think the "it sounds better" argument is silly. Personally I prefer records for these reasons: - If I want to share a record with a friend, theres a greater chance they'll just let it play as opposed to a bluetooth connected speaker, where everyone decides they want to be the DJ. - Having records often starts conversations. Its much more likely someone will see my records or ask to flip through them than say "Hey, can I peruse your Spotify library?" I like music and it's nice to connect about it without having to force a conversation with everyone I meet. That being said, I've often thought of living a "mobile" lifestyle like you mention, and if I do records would not be on my list of necessities.
ksk 9y ago
>So you don't understand why people like something and dismiss it as silly hipster bias? Yeah, it can seem annoying when someone does that to what you like, but all humans do this at some level. Its same thing as when someone insists that a $7,000 bottle of wine makes you sit down and have a personal experience with the wine, makes you appreciate the weight of the wine, its powerful robust swirling texture, and its assertive character. cue: eye-rolls >Does everything have to be about efficiency and logical superiority? No, but I bet you don't consult tarot cards before choosing your next job. >People enjoy the experience more and are spending money on it. How horrible. Agreed, leave people alone, people !!

cheeseprocedure 9y ago

Due to physical limitations of the medium, mastering the vinyl release of an album is often (usually?) a separate process than mastering the digital version. One of the consequences is less compression/clipping, better dynamic range, etc. for the vinyl version. This can have a huge positive impact on sound quality. You don't have to be a nutbar audiophile to appreciate it, either - you can even hear the difference between old rock albums and their heavily compressed re-releases. http://www.soundonsound.com/sound-advice/q-how-does-mastering-differ-vinyl-and-digital-releases http://www.soundonsound.com/sound-advice/q-how-does-masterin... http://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/end-loudness-war http://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/end-loudness-war

eanzenberg 9y ago
I think you'll get way more traction spending $ on better headphones/speakers/audio playing equipment and listening to digital than moving over to a turntable and vinyl collection.
- hotgoldminer 9y ago
  Depends on whether the music was recorded/mastered using digital or analog equipment.
- cc439 9y ago
  That's true up to a point but there are many classic albums and entire genres (jazz, big band music, beach music/swing music) where the only widely available digital offerings are horrifically mastered.
consto 9y ago
Maybe decades ago, but I find it hard to imagine any recording studio still having an analogue recording process. Sure the different mediums may call for different mastering, but the loudness war wasn't a result of limitations of tapes/CDs.
- cc439 9y ago

lyime 9y ago

Yeah, you don't know. I listen to a ton of music that's only released on vinyl. For example, almost all records you find at Yoyako (https://www.yoyaku.io/ https://www.yoyaku.io/) are vinyl-only.

rquirk 9y ago

Straight razors are pretty popular still in shaving forums.

DiNovi 9y ago

uncompressed digital definitely does; but since most services dont offer that, its not what most people compare against

ovao 9y ago
You'll actually have a very difficult time finding a modern lossy encoder at sane settings that will produce anything worse than what's achievable with a vinyl record. Because modern oversampling D/A converters are also very good, very abundant and very inexpensive, you'll have a similarly difficult time finding a digital playback system that's more poorly-equipped at the task than a purely-analog playback system. From a purely technical perspective I'll pick a typical lossy file over vinyl every single time.

InclinedPlane 9y ago

You realize how ridiculous this is right? Why not just plug yourself into a VR headset and eat your meals in pill form?