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As much fun as this test is, it dodges the most interesting question of all: "Are these machines supposed to be talking search engines?" I'm increasingly belie

by GCA10 9y ago

As much fun as this test is, it dodges the most interesting question of all: "Are these machines supposed to be talking search engines?" I'm increasingly believing that the answer is: "No." These machines (especially Alexa) are rapidly gaining popularity while still providing pretty ragged answers to search queries. So we should start asking: "Are they taking on a different function that didn't match our early expectations?" In a word, yeah. Alexa is a really nifty jukebox for those of us that don't have the good sense to create formal playlists. It's a handy kitchen timer, especially if you've got multiple pots doing different things. It's a better alarm clock and a better purveyor of soothing bedtime sounds. (If you're asking: Good god, how many people really want or need that, think: Fussing infants.) Smartphones already provide pretty excellent search results on the fly. I'm not sure voice-powered assistants will re-solve that problem with great success. But there are a surprising number of rudimentary needs around the house for which a voice-enabled device becomes quite handy.

ghaff 9y ago
I expect there are a lot of questions that lend themselves to concise answers. BUT if sensible informally phrased questions don't get answered properly a decent percentage of the time, we learn not to bother. I agree that voice interfaces aren't good for a lot of things. How do I cook XYZ? probably isn't suited. But overall performance just isn't that great.
- bluGill 9y ago
  > How do I cook XYZ? probably isn't suited That is perfectly suited to voice if voice worked. When I call my mom for the recipe for cake it would be a whole lot easier if my mom would say "beat the eggs for 1 minute", listen for the beater to start and then say stop after one minute. My mom has better things to do with her time than walk me through the recipe, but an assistant should be able to do this. Of course I have just transformed the problem into something that technology isn't able to do. However the problem isn't with the voice interface it is our AI isn't yet up to all that. (poor AI, every time they do something useful we rename it and move the goal posts)
  - ghaff 9y ago
    Fair enough. I was thinking of it as a one time answer. But you're absolutely right that a good interface could maybe show you a recipe on a screen somewhere and then walk you through the process step by step.
stephengillie 9y ago
These digital assistants are just begging for an app store. Search is just the first app, jokes and weather are other useful apps. These could easily follow a similar product life cycle pattern as smartphones.
- rrdharan 9y ago
  They have app stores: https://www.amazon.com/b?node=13727921011 https://www.amazon.com/b?node=13727921011
  - coryfklein 9y ago
    * One has an app store
- ghaff 9y ago
  Well, that's kinda what skills are in the case of Alexa. Part of the issue though is discoverability. I forget what I've installed or I forget what the right wizard's incantation is to access some skill/app.
- bootloop 9y ago
  Actions on Google. Played around with the developer tools a bit and it looked promising to me.
Splines 9y ago
Interesting - maybe it means that voice interfaces are better for tasks of a certain shape: Those that are typically multi-step, specific, and "deep" in an app. Things like setting a kitchen timer, saving a reminder for yourself, replying to a text, or setting a travel destination. Tasks that require a high amount of breadth, like search, don't scale well to a voice interface.
bkohlmann 9y ago
This is a really interesting point - particularly the kitchen timer thing. Right now, I'm the kitchen timer for my wife. She'll say, "set a timer for 8 minutes." I'll interrupt what I'm doing to comply. I may buy Alexa just for that...
- amelius 9y ago
  Yeah, but why does it need to phone home to Alexa servers all the time, just for setting a timer?
  - ghaff 9y ago
    Because it doesn't have the local intelligence to understand your unique waveforms that are saying something along the lines of "set a timer for five minutes." Now I'm sure someone could design a specialized device that could act as a voice activated timer--I suspect such exists--but Alexa is a lot more general purpose.
    - yorwba 9y ago
      On a tangent, what are the best speech recognition engines that don't require sending the audio to a server somewhere? Preferably open source.
      - ghaff 9y ago
        I was actually looking at that after I saw this question. PiAUISuite/voicecommand (looks like it can be used with APIs but doesn't need to be) seems to be one and Jasper another. I don't have personal experience with either (yet) but I suspect they're not nearly as good as Alexa/Google Home, especially with a basic microphone. I'm thinking I may play around though. http://stevenhickson.blogspot.com/2013/06/installing-and-updating-piauisuite-and.html http://stevenhickson.blogspot.com/2013/06/installing-and-upd... http://jasperproject.github.io/ http://jasperproject.github.io/
        9y ago
wcummings 9y ago
>If you're asking: Good god, how many people really want or need that, think: Fussing infants. TIL I am a fussing infant. I love that "sounds of the rain forest" bs (though I don't use an echo).
- GCA10 9y ago
  We're all fussing infants, to be truthful about it.

by GCA10 9y ago

ghaff 9y ago

I expect there are a lot of questions that lend themselves to concise answers. BUT if sensible informally phrased questions don't get answered properly a decent percentage of the time, we learn not to bother. I agree that voice interfaces aren't good for a lot of things. How do I cook XYZ? probably isn't suited. But overall performance just isn't that great.

bluGill 9y ago
> How do I cook XYZ? probably isn't suited That is perfectly suited to voice if voice worked. When I call my mom for the recipe for cake it would be a whole lot easier if my mom would say "beat the eggs for 1 minute", listen for the beater to start and then say stop after one minute. My mom has better things to do with her time than walk me through the recipe, but an assistant should be able to do this. Of course I have just transformed the problem into something that technology isn't able to do. However the problem isn't with the voice interface it is our AI isn't yet up to all that. (poor AI, every time they do something useful we rename it and move the goal posts)
- ghaff 9y ago
  Fair enough. I was thinking of it as a one time answer. But you're absolutely right that a good interface could maybe show you a recipe on a screen somewhere and then walk you through the process step by step.

stephengillie 9y ago

These digital assistants are just begging for an app store. Search is just the first app, jokes and weather are other useful apps. These could easily follow a similar product life cycle pattern as smartphones.

rrdharan 9y ago
They have app stores: https://www.amazon.com/b?node=13727921011 https://www.amazon.com/b?node=13727921011
- coryfklein 9y ago
  * One has an app store
ghaff 9y ago
Well, that's kinda what skills are in the case of Alexa. Part of the issue though is discoverability. I forget what I've installed or I forget what the right wizard's incantation is to access some skill/app.
bootloop 9y ago
Actions on Google. Played around with the developer tools a bit and it looked promising to me.

Splines 9y ago

Interesting - maybe it means that voice interfaces are better for tasks of a certain shape: Those that are typically multi-step, specific, and "deep" in an app. Things like setting a kitchen timer, saving a reminder for yourself, replying to a text, or setting a travel destination. Tasks that require a high amount of breadth, like search, don't scale well to a voice interface.

bkohlmann 9y ago

This is a really interesting point - particularly the kitchen timer thing. Right now, I'm the kitchen timer for my wife. She'll say, "set a timer for 8 minutes." I'll interrupt what I'm doing to comply. I may buy Alexa just for that...

amelius 9y ago
Yeah, but why does it need to phone home to Alexa servers all the time, just for setting a timer?
- ghaff 9y ago
  Because it doesn't have the local intelligence to understand your unique waveforms that are saying something along the lines of "set a timer for five minutes." Now I'm sure someone could design a specialized device that could act as a voice activated timer--I suspect such exists--but Alexa is a lot more general purpose.
  - yorwba 9y ago
    On a tangent, what are the best speech recognition engines that don't require sending the audio to a server somewhere? Preferably open source.
    - ghaff 9y ago
      I was actually looking at that after I saw this question. PiAUISuite/voicecommand (looks like it can be used with APIs but doesn't need to be) seems to be one and Jasper another. I don't have personal experience with either (yet) but I suspect they're not nearly as good as Alexa/Google Home, especially with a basic microphone. I'm thinking I may play around though. http://stevenhickson.blogspot.com/2013/06/installing-and-updating-piauisuite-and.html http://stevenhickson.blogspot.com/2013/06/installing-and-upd... http://jasperproject.github.io/ http://jasperproject.github.io/
      - 9y ago

wcummings 9y ago

>If you're asking: Good god, how many people really want or need that, think: Fussing infants. TIL I am a fussing infant. I love that "sounds of the rain forest" bs (though I don't use an echo).

GCA10 9y ago
We're all fussing infants, to be truthful about it.