11 ms·

My Failed Attempt at Engineering Love

148 points by sloanesturz 9y ago

danjoc 9y ago
Reading this reminded me of a google doodle, http://www.doodlehistory.com/2012/valentine-s-day-2012-on-feb-14-2012-1420/ http://www.doodlehistory.com/2012/valentine-s-day-2012-on-fe...
tbirrell 9y ago
Problem number one, that girl in the opening picture has a ring on her left hand. Perhaps try again with single girls?
- sillysaurus3 9y ago
  Is it unethical to go out with someone that wants out of their marriage? A divorce is costly, takes a lot of time, and the relationship is usually dead long before the papers are finalized. If there's trickery involved, then sure. But it's not quite so clear-cut. Where it gets murky is if you don't have a job, you're stuck -- it's very difficult to leave your marriage without at least attempting to find someone else before a divorce. But the alternative is to be a slave to your partner's whims, if the marriage is sufficiently toxic and unsalvageable.
  - smt88 9y ago
    Regardless of the ethics, it's probably just not going to work out...
  - epmaybe 9y ago
    Even in that case, why wear the ring in the picture? Edit: On second look, that picture looks to be a stock photo, not one of the dates the author went on.
    - sillysaurus3 9y ago
      Sure, if the relationship has reached that point, she probably wouldn't be wearing a ring. I'm just curious what everyone thinks.
    - CameronBanga 9y ago
      I think this is probably a stock photo just used to add a photo to the article.
    - kaybe 9y ago
      Is nobody wearing rings just for fun?
      - zhengyi13 9y ago
        I've certainly met people who wear rings specifically to suggest they're unavailable, or at least cut down on the number of propositions.
  - mcjiggerlog 9y ago
    If there's not trickery involved then they wouldn't be wearing a ring, surely?
  - watty 9y ago
    Yes, it is still unethical. > Where it gets murky is if you don't have a job, you're stuck -- it's very difficult to leave your marriage without at least attempting to find someone else before a divorce. Are you saying that you should continue to live off of the spouse's salary while shopping on the side?
    - sillysaurus3 9y ago
      It's easy to turn this question around: Are you saying that you should live your life beholden to someone else just because they're supporting you financially? Isn't that servitude?
      - watty 9y ago
        Beholden to someone? Servitude? I'm simply saying that it's unethical to live off of someone else's salary, in marriage, while trying to find a replacement (it's called an affair).
        sillysaurus3 9y ago
        Ten years is a long time, and people change significantly. Think drug abuse. If your SO is strung out all the time, and you have no ability to support yourself, what would you do? Unfortunately this isn't a corner case. It's a sad but common story.
        watty 9y ago
        I'm not judging, I get every situation is different. It sounds like you're referring to a specific incident, 10 year+ relationship, things change, spouse is a drug user. Sounds awful. My opinion is still that one should leave the relationship ASAP, regardless of how difficult it is financially. Support groups, family, part time work, driving uber, whatever it takes. I think it's unethical to stay in a relationship for financial security while trying to find a replacement. Even if there was emotional or physical abuse my answer would be the same. Exit the relationship, find support, don't have an affair.
  - watwut 9y ago
    Yes it is unethical, but she is unethical more. Pragmatically, if she dates you while wearing that ring, chances are she will date another dude while wearing your ring. If you need to stay on toxic relationship because of money, it is hard to leave, but not because you did not dated on the side. It is because you need to arrange living and job (or shelter). People in toxic relationships tend to be emotionally drained.
- smt88 9y ago
  Seems like a stock photo to me
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- _e 9y ago
  I did not read the whole post yet but it could be a picture of his fiance. I could not quickly find the source of the image through google image search [0]. What are the odds? [0] http://www.google.com/search?q=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn-images-1.medium.com%2Fmax%2F2000%2F1*9PRGO5_NSmj_2yDJa7YK0A.jpeg&tbm=isch&oq=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn-images-1.medium.com%2Fmax%2F2000%2F1*9PRGO5_NSmj_2yDJa7YK0A.jpeg http://www.google.com/search?q=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn-images-1.me...
- Etheryte 9y ago
  It's a stock photo, you're reading into it too much. I doubt the guy went on a date and then asked the gal to strike a pose: "I'm writing an article about how I'm dating 150 girls, can you please pose for a photograph?"
  - mamon 9y ago
    He did online dating, meaning all the girls had already published their photos in the internet before he met them. Just right click and "Save as" would do the trick, if he really wanted to include real photos in the article :) But yes, I also think that's a stock photo.
idlewords 9y ago
Somewhere out there is a girl spamming the hell out of online dating services, looking for this dude. Let's hope when their bots meet, they're programmed to exchange numbers.
- dudul 9y ago
  That would be the most romantic story IMO.
  - tpeo 9y ago
    Truly, the romantic comedy for the late 2010s. Actually, could be a nice quirky film - and profitable too. Romcoms are cheap to shoot. We're past peak American-romantic-comedy (I think) so the whole "ugh, not another one" factor might be actually pretty low in 2017. So yeah, could be pretty nice.
- garrybelka 9y ago
  It's a nice example of looking for the keys under the light aka if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. A bit more interesting analogy would be the Big Data craze. We do them because we can. Are the results produced by Big Data as relevant as the dating automation? Do we understand and handle them as effectively as 150 dates with zero involvement? And what do we miss instead? Whose time and place is taken by getting lost in superficial data oceans?
Danihan 9y ago
"150 dates without success" --> what happens when engineering meets the red pilled world of dating.
- jandrese 9y ago
  Seems like the problem was that his bot didn't filter very well and ended up matching him with tons of people that he had to instantly reject on the date. I wonder if there is a mentality problem here too. He had invested so little into each date that there was little incentive to put in the effort to pierce the surface and look for common interests. Going on 150 dates and not finding a single match tells me that you are shooting outside of your league. Your perfect match could do better than you, and is already taken anyway.
  - opportune 9y ago
    Yeah, either his "optimal" picture made him look a lot better than he looked in person, his personality was off, or he was really picky. 150 dates in a place like the bay area, where probably lots of his dates had something in common with him (blogging, tech, etc.) and not being satisfied with any that liked him back? That seems crazy to me.
    - jandrese 9y ago
      He starts off describing himself as short, bald, and fat. I'm guessing that picture is old or he has a distorted view of body image.
  - ML_God 9y ago
    Exactly, should've used ML.
  - notadoc 9y ago
    > Going on 150 dates and not finding a single match tells me that you are shooting outside of your league. Total nonsense attitude. You should never feel "outside of your league" for many reasons, particularly since you never know who you are compatible with. Don't be afraid to aim high in a partner.
Karrot_Kream 9y ago
Sometimes we get so wrapped up in could, that we don't spend the time to ask if we should.
projectramo 9y ago
151st date is the charm. This is a bit like living in NYC for both parties: there is so much volume that you can't get past the first minor disappointment. I think the volume prevents you from focusing on one person to figure out what you want. You might want to focus some kind of algo on the second part of the dating: selection. Don't just go on your gut or how you felt after the date. You need multiple dates to figure that out.
- ice109 9y ago
  NYC dating: water water everywhere but none that I'll drink more than a sip of in anticipation of finding a better glass. paradox of choice indeed.
nerdponx 9y ago
I’m a fat, bald, short guy whose only quality is that he isn’t an ax murderer. Cart before the horse. Also, smiley faces are kinda creepy in your first message.
thomasjudge 9y ago
There was this a few years ago https://www.wired.com/2014/01/how-to-hack-okcupid/ https://www.wired.com/2014/01/how-to-hack-okcupid/
theparanoid 9y ago
Step 1, for success, is moving away from the Bay Area.
- notadoc 9y ago
  > Step 1, for success, is moving away from the west coast FTFY. I'm not joking either, for straight single men they will certainly have better odds in the midwest or south. Demographics plus minor cultural differences matter.
  - pm90 9y ago
    Not true. LA definitely has a lot of the kind of women that nerdy engineers like: career focused, successful, intelligent etc.
vinhboy 9y ago
Wow, the data point about rape is an interesting tangent. I guess with people like 45 and all the stories from Silicon Valley, it's not that surprising. But sad none the less. Maybe we can follow the OP's lead and use technology to automate data collection around this and come up with better solutions.
patrickg_zill 9y ago
I think that he needs to improve his conversation skills first.
8_hours_ago 9y ago
This reminds me of a very humorous high frequency dating story https://web.archive.org/web/20170325010439/http://robrhinehart.com/?p=1005 https://web.archive.org/web/20170325010439/http://robrhineha... (previously discussed here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6773841 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6773841)
dnautics 9y ago
Opens with the secretary problem and shows no evidence of actually following the algorithm.
- gricardo99 9y ago
  I'm guessing because the secretary problem doesn't have this twist: >Dating is like enterprise sales. When your customer goes for a competing, more compelling product, you’re never told and you don’t get any feedback.
jared666 9y ago
Maybe learn how to treat another human like a human and step out of his own head for a second, might work better than 'engineering' love
- swagasaurus-rex 9y ago
  Platitudes won't teach somebody how to be more dateable.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
vertex-four 9y ago
Ehh... the issue is mostly that online dating doesn't go very well for the vast, vast majority of people. On the other hand, I know plenty of not-particularly-attractive people who've met partners through all sorts of weird and whacky situations. Fact of the matter is that finding potential partners, like finding anyone, is about constantly growing the network of people you interact with. I meet new people nearly every week through various communities I'm part of and organise. Many of them stay that way, just "part of my community", some of them become great friends, and very few become partners. You're unlikely to manage that while working 80 hours a week, going to the bar once or twice a week, and otherwise not being involved in much. Also, speaking personally... the sort of person who thinks it's fun to spend their time automating personal interaction is not the sort of person I want to date.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- ice109 9y ago
  >Also, speaking personally... the sort of person who thinks it's fun to spend their time automating personal interaction is not the sort of person I want to date. forgive me for waxing poetical but i've thought about this a lot - since i have tinder and okcupid accounts - online dating is one of the most nihilistic enterprises to come out of the digital revolution. take one of the most personally rewarding and edifying experiences and completely formalize one of the most exciting parts of it (if not the most). what becomes the point of your life??? i read a stupid platitude somewhere that you should do something that scares you every day and approaching people you're attracted to (not on the street you pua twats) is one of the few "scary" things still available to us as denizens of modernity (i'm not sailing over the ocean blue, summiting mt everest, hunting moby dick, etc.). why would you want to sidestep that.
  - gorkonsine 9y ago
    >online dating is one of the most nihilistic enterprises >approaching people you're attracted to (not on the street you pua twats) is one of the few "scary" things still available to us as denizens of modernity Online dating is good for people who simply have NO other avenue to meet people. If you're not supposed to try to pick up people on the street, then where would you apply this advice? Work? I don't know about you, but I'm a software engineer, so there's no single women at my workplace. School? I graduated quite some time ago, and work now. Church? Like many technologists, I'm irreligious (and I wouldn't want to date a religious woman anyway; been there, done that). Extracurricular activities? Sure, but the number of single women at these things tends to be pretty small, so it's a LOT of effort for very low odds of success. Any many of my interests just don't have very many single women participating anyway. The simple fact is, online dating offers a way for people to meet who otherwise simply wouldn't. This problem isn't new either; ever hear of "singles mixers"? Those were around long before the WWW came about. Online dating just moves that kind of thing online, and gives you a way of screening people before taking your time to meet them in person so you can make sure you're at least a little compatible. The main problem I personally see with online dating is that there aren't enough people using it (esp. female, they're far more reluctant to use it and see it as a point of shame), and there's too many different competing services. Oh yeah, and all the liars too. But that's nothing new, men picking up women in bars have been lying about themselves forever too.
notadoc 9y ago
Not a bad strategy even if it didn't work, dating is often purely a numbers game. Meet as many people as possible, be as social as possible, create as many opportunities to meet new people as possible. Also if you're a single male and you want to meet a female partner, I'd recommend moving away from the west coast. The south and midwest have far more women, and a generally friendlier culture which can make the entire meeting/dating process a bit easier.
- gorkonsine 9y ago
  The women in the South are generally far more religious and conservative. West-coast men might not be too interested in that stuff. The "friendlier culture" of the South thing is a myth. They're not that friendly to people who don't fit their preferred mold. Source: grew up in the South. There's a reason so many young people move out of the South as soon as they can.
  - pm90 9y ago
    > The "friendlier culture" of the South thing is a myth. They're not that friendly to people who don't fit their preferred mold. Heh... Ain't that the truth. Completely anecdotally, I got a LOT more Tinder matches when I was in the West/East Coast than in my home state of Texas (I'm a Nonwhite Male).
    - logfromblammo 9y ago
      Having lived in the South long enough to mildly dislike it, I wouldn't say that Southerners are friendly. They are polite, and only when someone whose opinion they may care about is around. Midwesterners are more apt to be friendly, but with far less concern for politeness. Southern conversation: A: You know, B, we have been friends for a long time. A: I think you ought to know: I'm homosexual. B: Oh, bless your heart. Thank you for telling me. B: I'm gonna pray for you, A. B: [never speaks to A again] Midwest conversation: A: You know, B, we have been friends for a long time. A: I think you ought to know: I'm homosexual. B: No duh. When was the last time you looked at yourself? B: Why do you think the rest of us call you "Mothball"? B: Stays in the closet, and also stinks. B: Guess we'll have to come up with something else now. A: You're a great friend, Farticus.
tabeth 9y ago
From my friend group there are two types of individuals: 1. Individuals who date many people, breaking up if they find something non-optimal. These include minor things like, not cleaning up on occasion, or not liking something you do. 2. Someone who dates very few (1-3) individuals, sticking with them until a serious, fatal flaw appears, like being racist or physically harming others, etc. If you define a successful dater as someone who has both longevity and quality in a single relationship then Group 2 has far more success in their relationships, in my experience.
- swiley 9y ago
  Group 1 is mostly women and group 2 is mostly men. At least in my experience.
  - dwaltrip 9y ago
    Unless the majority of people you know are gay, that isn't possible. For each hetero man you know following strategy 2, by definition, there is a corresponding woman (his partner). And vice versa with the women who are using strategy 1.
    - mattnewport 9y ago
      Not true. It's perfectly possible you have a scenario where for example the top 10% of men date 100s of women, the bottom 50% date 3 or fewer women and women have a much more even distribution and date an average much higher than 3. These numbers are just an example but in reality I think something a bit like this situation does actually exist.
      - dwaltrip 9y ago
        Sorry, forgot about this post. It seems you are likely right... (my brain is feeling a bit foggy on this one right now). I can see what sort of asymmetric distribution you are talking about. This must have been studied at some point -- it would be interesting to see some hard numbers. Anyways, thanks for the correction.
Freestyler_3 9y ago
"how did you meet that guy?" -Ow, he had a bot on tinder and I responded to it. Not the most romantic guy, despite his date ideas. Approach a person in public with a tape recorder, so you can just wind it back and go to the next woman.
45h34jh53k4j 9y ago
I find this creepy and weird. How could you possibly tell the love of your life (if and when you found that person) that they were nothing more than a toy in your little data harvesting exercise.
- 45h34jh53k4j 9y ago
  Also -- here is a good moral thermometer: "PS: I will not open-source the code since it could be used to hurt people, but I might share it if you ask nicely." If you write code for fun (not commercially owned IP), and you are not willing to share it because 'it could hurt people', you might want to re-evaluate if you should write it in the first place.
  - gorkonsine 9y ago
    Personally I think his approach here was really awful, but for this particular thing you could argue that the code is OK if used by one person, or a very tiny number of people, but if it were used by many people it'd be a big problem. There's a lot of things like that.
- notadoc 9y ago
  I think anyone who has been single long enough to experience the soul-draining tedious world of modern dating could understand and appreciate a way to optimize any part of matchmaking. Also, I think "speed dating" is just a less geeky version of this.
- joshschreuder 9y ago
  Glad I'm not the only one... I mean I get the 'hacker' appeal of this, and why it's on HN, but at the same time it's so impersonal and weird to message that many people. I can't see how almost all of the HUMAN BEINGS on the other end wouldn't find their treatment in this exercise at least a little bit disturbing.
belorn 9y ago
Interesting article, but in the context of serious process and scientific methods, the rape statistics quoted in the article is the exact opposite. The "1 in 5 US women is estimated to be raped before age 25" comes from a single study where they did a voluntary survey in one US university campus. It reflecting of the set of students during that year on that campus that decided to answer that survey. The national average today could be 1 in 5, it could be much more or much less.
- Jarwain 9y ago
  Not entirely true, from what I understand. The statistic has been replicated in polls and surveys across various college campuses. The OP's representation, and yours, is a little clunky but makes rational sense to me. His quote is "1 in 5 US women are estimated to be raped before the age of 25". This statistic is based on surveys conducted by the graduates of various colleges and universities. My understanding of the results are: of all the responding women, roughly 20% claim to have been raped. If the sample of women attending University and/or responding is representative of the population as a whole, then the original claim makes sense. More to the point, refuting the single study, voluntary survey at one US university campus. Washington Post-Kaiser Family Foundation Poll. "the poll surveyed a random national sample of 1,053 women and men ages 17 to 26 who were undergraduates at a four-year college — living on campus or nearby — or had been at some point since 2011. They attended more than 500 colleges and universities, public and private, large and small, elite and obscure, located in every state and the District of Columbia." [...] "5 percent of men and 20 percent of women said they had been sexually assaulted in college" http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/local/2015/06/12/1-in-5-women-say-they-were-violated/ http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/local/2015/06/12/1-in-5-wom... Campus Climate Survey Validation Study " Surveys were completed by more than 23,000 undergraduate students (approximately 15,000 females and 8,000 males). The average response rate across all nine schools was 54% for females and 40% for males" https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/ccsvsftr.pdf https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/ccsvsftr.pdf
  - Danihan 9y ago
    Sexual assault != rape. Case in point, I've had a random person grab my junk at a gay bar. Technically that's sexual assault, but it's a pretty far cry from rape.
mywittyname 9y ago
So, when will pydate be available on github?
cJ0th 9y ago
From solely reading the headline I had no idea how far the author took this. Kudos for this very interesting piece of "research"! I am surprised by the horrible outcome, though, since meeting 150 women is quit a lot. I'd have expected to see at least a short-term relationship coming out of this. It's almost like those generic (but in no way bad) messages exclusively attract the "wrong" women.
- Danihan 9y ago
  150 women seems like a lot... but not if you have a persona that turns most women off. Women are giving him a chance. He is simply not meeting their expectations of being fun / exciting / confident / funny / whatever.
bravura 9y ago
Slight tangent, but how do you script interaction with a mobile app like Tinder? For the web, you use a headless browser. But what about automating interaction with mobile?
- swiley 9y ago
  People have reverse engineered the API, there are libraries for it on github.
  - _e 9y ago
    Bingo. Use wireshark to identify the protocol and if it is http then use mitmproxy.
- d4nt 9y ago
  Pure speculation: you could run an Android VM and used an automated testing framework to drive it
ourmandave 9y ago
This is like the reverse version of Ashley Madison fembots. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/ashley-madison-admits-tricking-men-with-fake-fembots/ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/ashley-madison-admits-...
wolco 9y ago
It's like the programmer who applies to 150 jobs. The programmer cannot do the research on all 150 so the interviews lack the personal connection. Far better to focus on the 10 you really want do the research and put in the effort to really wow the interviewer.
- rockostrich 9y ago
  I don't think the comparison to applying to jobs works. When applying to jobs you have a pretty sizable knowledge of the companies. When online dating, you know very little about each person (the amount of data varies greatly depending on the service and person). You can't know if you're going to like someone until you meet them in person, but you can have a pretty good idea of whether or not you're going to like a company by researching online.
  - wolco 9y ago
    If the dating site allows publicly linking to social media profiles or if you have a real name/number you can do a little research. Identifying common interests or topics to avoid can be helpful. In my experience you don't really know if you are going to like the new job until after you have been working for a period of time. Research can give you clues but sometimes judging what the position will be like by how it sounds or by what you think you want can backfire. Many times the job changes the moment you are hired or shortly after. The only constant I've found is if you don't have a phone on your desk you will have time to actually do the work which will generally make most people happier.
- monksy 9y ago
  > Far better to focus on the 10 you really want do the research and put in the effort to really wow the interviewer. Sounds like you haven't been on online dating before.
  - wolco 9y ago
    I have and been successful but maybe things have changed in the last 10 years. You never meet someone right away, first you instant message on the platform. At some point you move into a chat program offsite and in a month you started talking on the phone. 6 months later you meet. Over that half year you develop a friendship when you meet you have tons to talk about. The buildup adds excitement and unless you look nothing like your picture your looks are already accepted and seeing you in person increases that attraction. If you try to rush the process you better have outstanding physical qualities or great style or money or luck because every relationship needs a base. You are better off going to a local minecraft meetup. Everyone attending will feel they have someone in common and you can build off of that. Start by building a low risk relationship with daily contact points. That will create the base for a successful friendship which is what you need for a successful relationship.
jeffwass 9y ago
>"I became an online dating magician who knew how to optimize a profile — A/B testing pictures and message. If I changed my profile picture and got more “likes” as a result, that meant it was better. I was tracking data, which made it easy to see what performed best. >This one worked, probably because it hides the bulging stomach and the balding head." No, your A/B test doesn't mean it's 'better', unless you're counting only number of first dates. But you keep talking about finding "The One". So here's some unsolicited advice - you are optimising the wrong variable. If you're really looking for "The One", instead optimise number of dates that remain interested in you after the first or later, not maximising the number of first dates. And along this line - use a picture that is more representative of yourself? If you're worried about potential dates being turned off by the bald head and bulging stomach, won't they be turned off when they meet you in person? At that point it becomes game theory, do you aim for more first bites with lower followup success, in hopes that your personality shines through? Do you cast a wide net, as you're doing, and exert a LOT of effort with first dates hoping you don't risk losing a potential "the one"? Or should you be yourself from the beginning, "happy to be a hippo" so to speak[1]. You'll probably get fewer first bites, but ones that get through have shown they don't care about your balding head and bulging stomach. Though I haven't been on the dating scene in 16 yrs, so take my advice with a grain of salt. [1] https://www.quora.com/What-does-happy-as-a-hippo-mean https://www.quora.com/What-does-happy-as-a-hippo-mean
- monksy 9y ago
  You can't find "the one" without having a good conversion rate from your audience. Also, some of dating is about finding your hidden biases and becoming better the next time about being honest about them.
  - Someone 9y ago
    You need a both a good conversion rate from the part of the audience where you stand a decent chance of success in the long run and a sufficiently large number of 'samples'. I think https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/publication/why-do-nigerian-scammers-say-they-are-from-nigeria/ https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/publication/why-do-... discusses somewhat the same problem in a different context. It concludes: "Finally, this approach suggests an answer to the question in the title. Far-fetched tales of West African riches strike most as comical. Our analysis suggests that is an advantage to the attacker, not a disadvantage. Since his attack has a low density of victims the Nigerian scammer has an over-riding need to reduce false positives". Difference here is that most people wouldn't get the false positive ratio that the typical scammer gets so you probably should try a bit harder to look good on a dating site. I think hiding your baldness goes too far, though. I think those who have a large amount of false positives know this. If, say, you need a wheelchair to move around, almost everybody would know it doesn't make sense to hide that, if the goal is to get into a relationship.
Kenji 9y ago
Modern dating is a mystery to me. What a laborious and painful way to sift through people when the most likable people come into your life when you least expect it.
- notadoc 9y ago
  > when the most likable people come into your life when you least expect it. There is often truth to that, but you have to put yourself into scenarios where that is more likely to happen. Be social, meet as many people as possible, etc.
  - the_af 9y ago
    It's doubly difficult for loners and introverts who do not necessarily enjoy meeting as many people as possible, yet would like a partner to share their lives with.
iblaine 9y ago
This is not creepy at all. /s
ensiferum 9y ago
Go to south America.latin women are amazing. Feminine smile a lot good looking and full of flirt. Ofc you need to speak Spanish but it's easy to learn! 8)
- the_af 9y ago
  That's an awful stereotype. Also, there is no "South America"; there are countries in South America, each with a different culture and dating strategies, some more traditional and conservative, some less. If you try dating in a conservative South American country (or city, because yes, it varies from city to city!), you'll find dating extremely difficult. Source: I'm from a country in South America.
apricot 9y ago
Successful attempt at engineering cringe.
patrickg_zill 9y ago
Thinking about it some more, the scripted interactions didn't work because they seemed too much like begging, especially after the 2nd message, when a normal person would have simply stopped communication with a non-responder. There was no mystery or enigmatic friction created in his scripted messages. Nothing to raise the "buying temperature" or whatever you want to call it. Also a head and shoulders shot with no context is as bland as can be. At least 1 shot should have been with an outside interest, like, with your dog (if you have one) or with friends showing you enjoying yourself. By adding such photos, I am willing to guess his responses would have been better.
dizzystar 9y ago
Any automated process that depends on human interaction is going to fail, whether it is seeking a job, finding a date. The big flag here is, after 20 dates, defeat begets defeat. You can't automate success. Plus, the profile picture sounds a bit like a lie. Anyone who's done online dating is familiar with the angels needed to hide body-type. Of course, no one is going to be happy to see someone who doesn't look like what the photo envisioned.
lcall 9y ago
My stepdaughter went on 100 dates while in her teens (like, while aged 16-18), to get to know a variety of people (clean, usually double dates). She married ~#72 and they're doing very well, like, idyllic, after some years (she has blogs about raising their children). Anyway, while still a teen, she had an ebook published about why those 100 dates were a good idea, with 365 ideas for free or inexpensive dates: https://deseretbook.com/p/date-day-365-ideas-lds-teens-teen-charly-troff-85440?ref=product-image https://deseretbook.com/p/date-day-365-ideas-lds-teens-teen-... ~$3. For what it may be worth from a relative. (You have to install the publisher's free ebook app, to read it though.) (edit: I found eHarmony's approach, though not really their IT department, to work really well for me.)
- lcall 9y ago
  A correction/ps, too late to edit: there is also apparently a kindle edition of the $3 "365 date ideas", so no niche app needed (though that's a nice app too, i have it): https://www.amazon.com/Date-Day-Ideas-Teens-Teen-ebook/dp/B008X9NZPW/ref=sr_1_1/134-9201808-3905701?ie=UTF8&qid=1498779281&sr=8-1&keywords=charly+troff https://www.amazon.com/Date-Day-Ideas-Teens-Teen-ebook/dp/B0...
noveltyaccount 9y ago
> I’m a fat, bald, short guy whose only quality is that he isn’t an ax murderer... But I’m bad at small talk, and I jump too fast to intellectual conversations, making it awkward. None of the engineering addressed root causes. Solve the confidence first, and then hack your way to a better physique, and maybe pick up some interests that are universal and easy to chat about.
- logfromblammo 9y ago
  >> ...isn't an ax murderer... > ...hack your way to a better physique... Got it. Buying an axe ASAP... ~
watwut 9y ago
The attempt seems to lack any attempt to recognise the one or reflect what it is that he looks for in a girl. Whether the first meeting is fun and engaging and whether you two can be together long term are very different things. I also think that sending three messages in three days despite being ignored selects shared traits in the group. I mean, he said he is shy but acted super active sociable and needy online. So he might be selecting girls who look for needy dude or want dude who is highly sociable. Instead, shy introverted dude who need excell to figure out inappropriate thing to say appeared. That can't be match.
patkob 9y ago
How a Math Genius Hacked OkCupid to Find True Love (wired.com) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7099855 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7099855
criddell 9y ago
I think he actually found the love of his life and hasn't realized it. Turns out, it's a Python script.
mynegation 9y ago
That reminded me of my wife's friend who wrote a book[1] about her experience of outsourcing dating. Being a woman she has the reverse problem of too many suitors. She outsourced the vetting process and initial conversation to the hired assistants (yes, plural), with mixed success. In my experience any kind of scenario where friction is removed (never have been on tinder, but I would imagine it is even more pronounced than a crowded bar) leads to that kind of imbalance. One of tradeoffs that might work for some males is to put themselves into a kind of situations that puts them next to females for a prolonged amount of time. School, work, and neighbours are classic, but that also includes dance schools, sports, and frequent parties with mutual friends. Women are much more likely to spend time with you if they feel like they already know you a bit. [1] http://datingvandalized.com/ http://datingvandalized.com/
Grue3 9y ago
This is a depressing read. Here we have a "startup founder" (=relatively wealthy), who isn't that bad-looking, using a complicated script to massively increase his opportunities and he still can't get a date. Is there even hope for the rest of us?
- amackera 9y ago
  Haha well he got plenty of dates (150 of them), he just never found that special someone. TBH I think his problem was that he didn't quality his leads well enough.
- vertex-four 9y ago
  Yes, there is hope. Don't work your life away, and actually get out and do things. Places I've met people: roleplaying groups, kink communities, hobby-related conferences and workshops, local events, completely random social IRC channels. It can take just one off-hand comment on a shared interest to lead to a conversation and a spark. Also note that the sort of person who finds enjoyment in automating away social interaction is unlikely to be enjoyable to socially interact with.
elterago 9y ago
if author is reading this - unsolicited advice: hit the gym, lose the gut. As for the balding head - shave it! Surprising numbers of females dig it. And kudos for charity donation! Good luck
mangofoobar 9y ago
There is no such thing as the "One". That's called Oneitis. This guy has no game and is offering to be a door mat and pay for the women before he even really talked to her. I went on a 100 first dates in a year amd got 12 girlfriends out of it
jyriand 9y ago
Cant't read the story, submitted link is redirecting to medium.com.
ricardobeat 9y ago
Looks like the article has now been deleted - it also disappeared from google amp cache.
pw 9y ago
It seems like he might have been better off working on his social skills than his date generating machine.
angryasian 9y ago
how did he interact with mobile tinder ?
notyourday 9y ago
He was solving a wrong problem using a wrong set of tools. He clearly stated that what he wanted was a walking womb however what he offered in his profile was something else. No engineering optimization would make someone who wants a steak happy in a place offering omakase.
anotherevan 9y ago
I love that down in the comments he was asked if any of those 150 dates resulted in him getting laid, and his response was, "44.7%"
tuxguy 9y ago
The original link seems to be redirecting to medium.com. This is the correct link, if OP or admin can fix it https://medium.com/the-mission/looking-for-the-one-how-i-went-on-150-dates-in-4-months-bf43a095516c https://medium.com/the-mission/looking-for-the-one-how-i-wen...
streetdrag 9y ago
Here in Paris, many people in their thirties are single like me, and many are on dating sites. I had a lot of dates on a french site called adoptecunmec unlike Tinder. After manual experiences, I started a script which notified me when new girls registered on the website, so I could message them before their inbox would be full. A lot of them were closing their account because of the insane number of lame messages. I didn't finish this script because I decided to stop all these dating sites and focused on street drag. After work, I visit Paris (which I still don't know well) and talk to girls, as many as I can. It's successful. I don't have this disapppointment on dates like you have with online dating, people don't cheat with their pictures. Of course, you take rakes, you get phone numbers and girls won't respond to you, but at least they won't next you as fast as online dating people do. Some figures: I would go out for 2 hours and get 2-3 phone numbers, thanks to weeks of practice. Please stop online dating and get out, you'll get a pleasant time and this will be much less time-consuming. PS: - advices on street drag https://www.reddit.com/r/seduction/top/ https://www.reddit.com/r/seduction/top/ - this youtube guy helped me a lot https://youtu.be/DTDrnasfg_g?t=330 https://youtu.be/DTDrnasfg_g?t=330

148 points by sloanesturz 9y ago

Reading this reminded me of a google doodle, http://www.doodlehistory.com/2012/valentine-s-day-2012-on-feb-14-2012-1420/ http://www.doodlehistory.com/2012/valentine-s-day-2012-on-fe...

tbirrell 9y ago

Problem number one, that girl in the opening picture has a ring on her left hand. Perhaps try again with single girls?

sillysaurus3 9y ago
Is it unethical to go out with someone that wants out of their marriage? A divorce is costly, takes a lot of time, and the relationship is usually dead long before the papers are finalized. If there's trickery involved, then sure. But it's not quite so clear-cut. Where it gets murky is if you don't have a job, you're stuck -- it's very difficult to leave your marriage without at least attempting to find someone else before a divorce. But the alternative is to be a slave to your partner's whims, if the marriage is sufficiently toxic and unsalvageable.
- smt88 9y ago
  Regardless of the ethics, it's probably just not going to work out...
- epmaybe 9y ago
  Even in that case, why wear the ring in the picture? Edit: On second look, that picture looks to be a stock photo, not one of the dates the author went on.
  - sillysaurus3 9y ago
    Sure, if the relationship has reached that point, she probably wouldn't be wearing a ring. I'm just curious what everyone thinks.
  - CameronBanga 9y ago
    I think this is probably a stock photo just used to add a photo to the article.
  - kaybe 9y ago
    Is nobody wearing rings just for fun?
    - zhengyi13 9y ago
      I've certainly met people who wear rings specifically to suggest they're unavailable, or at least cut down on the number of propositions.
- mcjiggerlog 9y ago
  If there's not trickery involved then they wouldn't be wearing a ring, surely?
- watty 9y ago
  Yes, it is still unethical. > Where it gets murky is if you don't have a job, you're stuck -- it's very difficult to leave your marriage without at least attempting to find someone else before a divorce. Are you saying that you should continue to live off of the spouse's salary while shopping on the side?
  - sillysaurus3 9y ago
    It's easy to turn this question around: Are you saying that you should live your life beholden to someone else just because they're supporting you financially? Isn't that servitude?
    - watty 9y ago
      Beholden to someone? Servitude? I'm simply saying that it's unethical to live off of someone else's salary, in marriage, while trying to find a replacement (it's called an affair).
      - sillysaurus3 9y ago
        Ten years is a long time, and people change significantly. Think drug abuse. If your SO is strung out all the time, and you have no ability to support yourself, what would you do? Unfortunately this isn't a corner case. It's a sad but common story.
        watty 9y ago
        I'm not judging, I get every situation is different. It sounds like you're referring to a specific incident, 10 year+ relationship, things change, spouse is a drug user. Sounds awful. My opinion is still that one should leave the relationship ASAP, regardless of how difficult it is financially. Support groups, family, part time work, driving uber, whatever it takes. I think it's unethical to stay in a relationship for financial security while trying to find a replacement. Even if there was emotional or physical abuse my answer would be the same. Exit the relationship, find support, don't have an affair.
- watwut 9y ago
  Yes it is unethical, but she is unethical more. Pragmatically, if she dates you while wearing that ring, chances are she will date another dude while wearing your ring. If you need to stay on toxic relationship because of money, it is hard to leave, but not because you did not dated on the side. It is because you need to arrange living and job (or shelter). People in toxic relationships tend to be emotionally drained.
smt88 9y ago
Seems like a stock photo to me
deleted 9y ago
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_e 9y ago
I did not read the whole post yet but it could be a picture of his fiance. I could not quickly find the source of the image through google image search [0]. What are the odds? [0] http://www.google.com/search?q=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn-images-1.medium.com%2Fmax%2F2000%2F1*9PRGO5_NSmj_2yDJa7YK0A.jpeg&tbm=isch&oq=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn-images-1.medium.com%2Fmax%2F2000%2F1*9PRGO5_NSmj_2yDJa7YK0A.jpeg http://www.google.com/search?q=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn-images-1.me...
Etheryte 9y ago
It's a stock photo, you're reading into it too much. I doubt the guy went on a date and then asked the gal to strike a pose: "I'm writing an article about how I'm dating 150 girls, can you please pose for a photograph?"
- mamon 9y ago
  He did online dating, meaning all the girls had already published their photos in the internet before he met them. Just right click and "Save as" would do the trick, if he really wanted to include real photos in the article :) But yes, I also think that's a stock photo.

idlewords 9y ago

Somewhere out there is a girl spamming the hell out of online dating services, looking for this dude. Let's hope when their bots meet, they're programmed to exchange numbers.

dudul 9y ago
That would be the most romantic story IMO.
- tpeo 9y ago
  Truly, the romantic comedy for the late 2010s. Actually, could be a nice quirky film - and profitable too. Romcoms are cheap to shoot. We're past peak American-romantic-comedy (I think) so the whole "ugh, not another one" factor might be actually pretty low in 2017. So yeah, could be pretty nice.
garrybelka 9y ago
It's a nice example of looking for the keys under the light aka if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. A bit more interesting analogy would be the Big Data craze. We do them because we can. Are the results produced by Big Data as relevant as the dating automation? Do we understand and handle them as effectively as 150 dates with zero involvement? And what do we miss instead? Whose time and place is taken by getting lost in superficial data oceans?

Danihan 9y ago

"150 dates without success" --> what happens when engineering meets the red pilled world of dating.

jandrese 9y ago
Seems like the problem was that his bot didn't filter very well and ended up matching him with tons of people that he had to instantly reject on the date. I wonder if there is a mentality problem here too. He had invested so little into each date that there was little incentive to put in the effort to pierce the surface and look for common interests. Going on 150 dates and not finding a single match tells me that you are shooting outside of your league. Your perfect match could do better than you, and is already taken anyway.
- opportune 9y ago
  Yeah, either his "optimal" picture made him look a lot better than he looked in person, his personality was off, or he was really picky. 150 dates in a place like the bay area, where probably lots of his dates had something in common with him (blogging, tech, etc.) and not being satisfied with any that liked him back? That seems crazy to me.
  - jandrese 9y ago
    He starts off describing himself as short, bald, and fat. I'm guessing that picture is old or he has a distorted view of body image.
- ML_God 9y ago
  Exactly, should've used ML.
- notadoc 9y ago
  > Going on 150 dates and not finding a single match tells me that you are shooting outside of your league. Total nonsense attitude. You should never feel "outside of your league" for many reasons, particularly since you never know who you are compatible with. Don't be afraid to aim high in a partner.

Karrot_Kream 9y ago

Sometimes we get so wrapped up in could, that we don't spend the time to ask if we should.

projectramo 9y ago

151st date is the charm. This is a bit like living in NYC for both parties: there is so much volume that you can't get past the first minor disappointment. I think the volume prevents you from focusing on one person to figure out what you want. You might want to focus some kind of algo on the second part of the dating: selection. Don't just go on your gut or how you felt after the date. You need multiple dates to figure that out.

ice109 9y ago
NYC dating: water water everywhere but none that I'll drink more than a sip of in anticipation of finding a better glass. paradox of choice indeed.

nerdponx 9y ago

I’m a fat, bald, short guy whose only quality is that he isn’t an ax murderer. Cart before the horse. Also, smiley faces are kinda creepy in your first message.

thomasjudge 9y ago

There was this a few years ago https://www.wired.com/2014/01/how-to-hack-okcupid/ https://www.wired.com/2014/01/how-to-hack-okcupid/

theparanoid 9y ago

Step 1, for success, is moving away from the Bay Area.

notadoc 9y ago
> Step 1, for success, is moving away from the west coast FTFY. I'm not joking either, for straight single men they will certainly have better odds in the midwest or south. Demographics plus minor cultural differences matter.
- pm90 9y ago
  Not true. LA definitely has a lot of the kind of women that nerdy engineers like: career focused, successful, intelligent etc.

vinhboy 9y ago

Wow, the data point about rape is an interesting tangent. I guess with people like 45 and all the stories from Silicon Valley, it's not that surprising. But sad none the less. Maybe we can follow the OP's lead and use technology to automate data collection around this and come up with better solutions.

patrickg_zill 9y ago

I think that he needs to improve his conversation skills first.

8_hours_ago 9y ago

This reminds me of a very humorous high frequency dating story https://web.archive.org/web/20170325010439/http://robrhinehart.com/?p=1005 https://web.archive.org/web/20170325010439/http://robrhineha... (previously discussed here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6773841 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6773841)

dnautics 9y ago

Opens with the secretary problem and shows no evidence of actually following the algorithm.

gricardo99 9y ago
I'm guessing because the secretary problem doesn't have this twist: >Dating is like enterprise sales. When your customer goes for a competing, more compelling product, you’re never told and you don’t get any feedback.

jared666 9y ago

Maybe learn how to treat another human like a human and step out of his own head for a second, might work better than 'engineering' love

swagasaurus-rex 9y ago
Platitudes won't teach somebody how to be more dateable.

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vertex-four 9y ago

Ehh... the issue is mostly that online dating doesn't go very well for the vast, vast majority of people. On the other hand, I know plenty of not-particularly-attractive people who've met partners through all sorts of weird and whacky situations. Fact of the matter is that finding potential partners, like finding anyone, is about constantly growing the network of people you interact with. I meet new people nearly every week through various communities I'm part of and organise. Many of them stay that way, just "part of my community", some of them become great friends, and very few become partners. You're unlikely to manage that while working 80 hours a week, going to the bar once or twice a week, and otherwise not being involved in much. Also, speaking personally... the sort of person who thinks it's fun to spend their time automating personal interaction is not the sort of person I want to date.

deleted 9y ago
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ice109 9y ago
>Also, speaking personally... the sort of person who thinks it's fun to spend their time automating personal interaction is not the sort of person I want to date. forgive me for waxing poetical but i've thought about this a lot - since i have tinder and okcupid accounts - online dating is one of the most nihilistic enterprises to come out of the digital revolution. take one of the most personally rewarding and edifying experiences and completely formalize one of the most exciting parts of it (if not the most). what becomes the point of your life??? i read a stupid platitude somewhere that you should do something that scares you every day and approaching people you're attracted to (not on the street you pua twats) is one of the few "scary" things still available to us as denizens of modernity (i'm not sailing over the ocean blue, summiting mt everest, hunting moby dick, etc.). why would you want to sidestep that.
- gorkonsine 9y ago
  >online dating is one of the most nihilistic enterprises >approaching people you're attracted to (not on the street you pua twats) is one of the few "scary" things still available to us as denizens of modernity Online dating is good for people who simply have NO other avenue to meet people. If you're not supposed to try to pick up people on the street, then where would you apply this advice? Work? I don't know about you, but I'm a software engineer, so there's no single women at my workplace. School? I graduated quite some time ago, and work now. Church? Like many technologists, I'm irreligious (and I wouldn't want to date a religious woman anyway; been there, done that). Extracurricular activities? Sure, but the number of single women at these things tends to be pretty small, so it's a LOT of effort for very low odds of success. Any many of my interests just don't have very many single women participating anyway. The simple fact is, online dating offers a way for people to meet who otherwise simply wouldn't. This problem isn't new either; ever hear of "singles mixers"? Those were around long before the WWW came about. Online dating just moves that kind of thing online, and gives you a way of screening people before taking your time to meet them in person so you can make sure you're at least a little compatible. The main problem I personally see with online dating is that there aren't enough people using it (esp. female, they're far more reluctant to use it and see it as a point of shame), and there's too many different competing services. Oh yeah, and all the liars too. But that's nothing new, men picking up women in bars have been lying about themselves forever too.

notadoc 9y ago

Not a bad strategy even if it didn't work, dating is often purely a numbers game. Meet as many people as possible, be as social as possible, create as many opportunities to meet new people as possible. Also if you're a single male and you want to meet a female partner, I'd recommend moving away from the west coast. The south and midwest have far more women, and a generally friendlier culture which can make the entire meeting/dating process a bit easier.

gorkonsine 9y ago
The women in the South are generally far more religious and conservative. West-coast men might not be too interested in that stuff. The "friendlier culture" of the South thing is a myth. They're not that friendly to people who don't fit their preferred mold. Source: grew up in the South. There's a reason so many young people move out of the South as soon as they can.
- pm90 9y ago
  > The "friendlier culture" of the South thing is a myth. They're not that friendly to people who don't fit their preferred mold. Heh... Ain't that the truth. Completely anecdotally, I got a LOT more Tinder matches when I was in the West/East Coast than in my home state of Texas (I'm a Nonwhite Male).
  - logfromblammo 9y ago
    Having lived in the South long enough to mildly dislike it, I wouldn't say that Southerners are friendly. They are polite, and only when someone whose opinion they may care about is around. Midwesterners are more apt to be friendly, but with far less concern for politeness. Southern conversation: A: You know, B, we have been friends for a long time. A: I think you ought to know: I'm homosexual. B: Oh, bless your heart. Thank you for telling me. B: I'm gonna pray for you, A. B: [never speaks to A again] Midwest conversation: A: You know, B, we have been friends for a long time. A: I think you ought to know: I'm homosexual. B: No duh. When was the last time you looked at yourself? B: Why do you think the rest of us call you "Mothball"? B: Stays in the closet, and also stinks. B: Guess we'll have to come up with something else now. A: You're a great friend, Farticus.

tabeth 9y ago

From my friend group there are two types of individuals: 1. Individuals who date many people, breaking up if they find something non-optimal. These include minor things like, not cleaning up on occasion, or not liking something you do. 2. Someone who dates very few (1-3) individuals, sticking with them until a serious, fatal flaw appears, like being racist or physically harming others, etc. If you define a successful dater as someone who has both longevity and quality in a single relationship then Group 2 has far more success in their relationships, in my experience.

swiley 9y ago
Group 1 is mostly women and group 2 is mostly men. At least in my experience.
- dwaltrip 9y ago
  Unless the majority of people you know are gay, that isn't possible. For each hetero man you know following strategy 2, by definition, there is a corresponding woman (his partner). And vice versa with the women who are using strategy 1.
  - mattnewport 9y ago
    Not true. It's perfectly possible you have a scenario where for example the top 10% of men date 100s of women, the bottom 50% date 3 or fewer women and women have a much more even distribution and date an average much higher than 3. These numbers are just an example but in reality I think something a bit like this situation does actually exist.
    - dwaltrip 9y ago
      Sorry, forgot about this post. It seems you are likely right... (my brain is feeling a bit foggy on this one right now). I can see what sort of asymmetric distribution you are talking about. This must have been studied at some point -- it would be interesting to see some hard numbers. Anyways, thanks for the correction.

Freestyler_3 9y ago

"how did you meet that guy?" -Ow, he had a bot on tinder and I responded to it. Not the most romantic guy, despite his date ideas. Approach a person in public with a tape recorder, so you can just wind it back and go to the next woman.

45h34jh53k4j 9y ago

I find this creepy and weird. How could you possibly tell the love of your life (if and when you found that person) that they were nothing more than a toy in your little data harvesting exercise.

45h34jh53k4j 9y ago
Also -- here is a good moral thermometer: "PS: I will not open-source the code since it could be used to hurt people, but I might share it if you ask nicely." If you write code for fun (not commercially owned IP), and you are not willing to share it because 'it could hurt people', you might want to re-evaluate if you should write it in the first place.
- gorkonsine 9y ago
  Personally I think his approach here was really awful, but for this particular thing you could argue that the code is OK if used by one person, or a very tiny number of people, but if it were used by many people it'd be a big problem. There's a lot of things like that.
notadoc 9y ago
I think anyone who has been single long enough to experience the soul-draining tedious world of modern dating could understand and appreciate a way to optimize any part of matchmaking. Also, I think "speed dating" is just a less geeky version of this.
joshschreuder 9y ago
Glad I'm not the only one... I mean I get the 'hacker' appeal of this, and why it's on HN, but at the same time it's so impersonal and weird to message that many people. I can't see how almost all of the HUMAN BEINGS on the other end wouldn't find their treatment in this exercise at least a little bit disturbing.

belorn 9y ago

Interesting article, but in the context of serious process and scientific methods, the rape statistics quoted in the article is the exact opposite. The "1 in 5 US women is estimated to be raped before age 25" comes from a single study where they did a voluntary survey in one US university campus. It reflecting of the set of students during that year on that campus that decided to answer that survey. The national average today could be 1 in 5, it could be much more or much less.

Jarwain 9y ago
Not entirely true, from what I understand. The statistic has been replicated in polls and surveys across various college campuses. The OP's representation, and yours, is a little clunky but makes rational sense to me. His quote is "1 in 5 US women are estimated to be raped before the age of 25". This statistic is based on surveys conducted by the graduates of various colleges and universities. My understanding of the results are: of all the responding women, roughly 20% claim to have been raped. If the sample of women attending University and/or responding is representative of the population as a whole, then the original claim makes sense. More to the point, refuting the single study, voluntary survey at one US university campus. Washington Post-Kaiser Family Foundation Poll. "the poll surveyed a random national sample of 1,053 women and men ages 17 to 26 who were undergraduates at a four-year college — living on campus or nearby — or had been at some point since 2011. They attended more than 500 colleges and universities, public and private, large and small, elite and obscure, located in every state and the District of Columbia." [...] "5 percent of men and 20 percent of women said they had been sexually assaulted in college" http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/local/2015/06/12/1-in-5-women-say-they-were-violated/ http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/local/2015/06/12/1-in-5-wom... Campus Climate Survey Validation Study " Surveys were completed by more than 23,000 undergraduate students (approximately 15,000 females and 8,000 males). The average response rate across all nine schools was 54% for females and 40% for males" https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/ccsvsftr.pdf https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/ccsvsftr.pdf
- Danihan 9y ago
  Sexual assault != rape. Case in point, I've had a random person grab my junk at a gay bar. Technically that's sexual assault, but it's a pretty far cry from rape.

mywittyname 9y ago

So, when will pydate be available on github?

cJ0th 9y ago

From solely reading the headline I had no idea how far the author took this. Kudos for this very interesting piece of "research"! I am surprised by the horrible outcome, though, since meeting 150 women is quit a lot. I'd have expected to see at least a short-term relationship coming out of this. It's almost like those generic (but in no way bad) messages exclusively attract the "wrong" women.

Danihan 9y ago
150 women seems like a lot... but not if you have a persona that turns most women off. Women are giving him a chance. He is simply not meeting their expectations of being fun / exciting / confident / funny / whatever.

bravura 9y ago

Slight tangent, but how do you script interaction with a mobile app like Tinder? For the web, you use a headless browser. But what about automating interaction with mobile?

swiley 9y ago
People have reverse engineered the API, there are libraries for it on github.
- _e 9y ago
  Bingo. Use wireshark to identify the protocol and if it is http then use mitmproxy.
d4nt 9y ago
Pure speculation: you could run an Android VM and used an automated testing framework to drive it

ourmandave 9y ago

This is like the reverse version of Ashley Madison fembots. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/ashley-madison-admits-tricking-men-with-fake-fembots/ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/ashley-madison-admits-...

wolco 9y ago

It's like the programmer who applies to 150 jobs. The programmer cannot do the research on all 150 so the interviews lack the personal connection. Far better to focus on the 10 you really want do the research and put in the effort to really wow the interviewer.

rockostrich 9y ago
I don't think the comparison to applying to jobs works. When applying to jobs you have a pretty sizable knowledge of the companies. When online dating, you know very little about each person (the amount of data varies greatly depending on the service and person). You can't know if you're going to like someone until you meet them in person, but you can have a pretty good idea of whether or not you're going to like a company by researching online.
- wolco 9y ago
  If the dating site allows publicly linking to social media profiles or if you have a real name/number you can do a little research. Identifying common interests or topics to avoid can be helpful. In my experience you don't really know if you are going to like the new job until after you have been working for a period of time. Research can give you clues but sometimes judging what the position will be like by how it sounds or by what you think you want can backfire. Many times the job changes the moment you are hired or shortly after. The only constant I've found is if you don't have a phone on your desk you will have time to actually do the work which will generally make most people happier.
monksy 9y ago
> Far better to focus on the 10 you really want do the research and put in the effort to really wow the interviewer. Sounds like you haven't been on online dating before.
- wolco 9y ago
  I have and been successful but maybe things have changed in the last 10 years. You never meet someone right away, first you instant message on the platform. At some point you move into a chat program offsite and in a month you started talking on the phone. 6 months later you meet. Over that half year you develop a friendship when you meet you have tons to talk about. The buildup adds excitement and unless you look nothing like your picture your looks are already accepted and seeing you in person increases that attraction. If you try to rush the process you better have outstanding physical qualities or great style or money or luck because every relationship needs a base. You are better off going to a local minecraft meetup. Everyone attending will feel they have someone in common and you can build off of that. Start by building a low risk relationship with daily contact points. That will create the base for a successful friendship which is what you need for a successful relationship.

jeffwass 9y ago

>"I became an online dating magician who knew how to optimize a profile — A/B testing pictures and message. If I changed my profile picture and got more “likes” as a result, that meant it was better. I was tracking data, which made it easy to see what performed best. >This one worked, probably because it hides the bulging stomach and the balding head." No, your A/B test doesn't mean it's 'better', unless you're counting only number of first dates. But you keep talking about finding "The One". So here's some unsolicited advice - you are optimising the wrong variable. If you're really looking for "The One", instead optimise number of dates that remain interested in you after the first or later, not maximising the number of first dates. And along this line - use a picture that is more representative of yourself? If you're worried about potential dates being turned off by the bald head and bulging stomach, won't they be turned off when they meet you in person? At that point it becomes game theory, do you aim for more first bites with lower followup success, in hopes that your personality shines through? Do you cast a wide net, as you're doing, and exert a LOT of effort with first dates hoping you don't risk losing a potential "the one"? Or should you be yourself from the beginning, "happy to be a hippo" so to speak[1]. You'll probably get fewer first bites, but ones that get through have shown they don't care about your balding head and bulging stomach. Though I haven't been on the dating scene in 16 yrs, so take my advice with a grain of salt. [1] https://www.quora.com/What-does-happy-as-a-hippo-mean https://www.quora.com/What-does-happy-as-a-hippo-mean

monksy 9y ago
You can't find "the one" without having a good conversion rate from your audience. Also, some of dating is about finding your hidden biases and becoming better the next time about being honest about them.
- Someone 9y ago
  You need a both a good conversion rate from the part of the audience where you stand a decent chance of success in the long run and a sufficiently large number of 'samples'. I think https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/publication/why-do-nigerian-scammers-say-they-are-from-nigeria/ https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/publication/why-do-... discusses somewhat the same problem in a different context. It concludes: "Finally, this approach suggests an answer to the question in the title. Far-fetched tales of West African riches strike most as comical. Our analysis suggests that is an advantage to the attacker, not a disadvantage. Since his attack has a low density of victims the Nigerian scammer has an over-riding need to reduce false positives". Difference here is that most people wouldn't get the false positive ratio that the typical scammer gets so you probably should try a bit harder to look good on a dating site. I think hiding your baldness goes too far, though. I think those who have a large amount of false positives know this. If, say, you need a wheelchair to move around, almost everybody would know it doesn't make sense to hide that, if the goal is to get into a relationship.

Kenji 9y ago

Modern dating is a mystery to me. What a laborious and painful way to sift through people when the most likable people come into your life when you least expect it.

notadoc 9y ago
> when the most likable people come into your life when you least expect it. There is often truth to that, but you have to put yourself into scenarios where that is more likely to happen. Be social, meet as many people as possible, etc.
- the_af 9y ago
  It's doubly difficult for loners and introverts who do not necessarily enjoy meeting as many people as possible, yet would like a partner to share their lives with.

iblaine 9y ago

This is not creepy at all. /s

ensiferum 9y ago

Go to south America.latin women are amazing. Feminine smile a lot good looking and full of flirt. Ofc you need to speak Spanish but it's easy to learn! 8)

the_af 9y ago
That's an awful stereotype. Also, there is no "South America"; there are countries in South America, each with a different culture and dating strategies, some more traditional and conservative, some less. If you try dating in a conservative South American country (or city, because yes, it varies from city to city!), you'll find dating extremely difficult. Source: I'm from a country in South America.

apricot 9y ago

Successful attempt at engineering cringe.

patrickg_zill 9y ago

Thinking about it some more, the scripted interactions didn't work because they seemed too much like begging, especially after the 2nd message, when a normal person would have simply stopped communication with a non-responder. There was no mystery or enigmatic friction created in his scripted messages. Nothing to raise the "buying temperature" or whatever you want to call it. Also a head and shoulders shot with no context is as bland as can be. At least 1 shot should have been with an outside interest, like, with your dog (if you have one) or with friends showing you enjoying yourself. By adding such photos, I am willing to guess his responses would have been better.

dizzystar 9y ago

Any automated process that depends on human interaction is going to fail, whether it is seeking a job, finding a date. The big flag here is, after 20 dates, defeat begets defeat. You can't automate success. Plus, the profile picture sounds a bit like a lie. Anyone who's done online dating is familiar with the angels needed to hide body-type. Of course, no one is going to be happy to see someone who doesn't look like what the photo envisioned.

lcall 9y ago

My stepdaughter went on 100 dates while in her teens (like, while aged 16-18), to get to know a variety of people (clean, usually double dates). She married ~#72 and they're doing very well, like, idyllic, after some years (she has blogs about raising their children). Anyway, while still a teen, she had an ebook published about why those 100 dates were a good idea, with 365 ideas for free or inexpensive dates: https://deseretbook.com/p/date-day-365-ideas-lds-teens-teen-charly-troff-85440?ref=product-image https://deseretbook.com/p/date-day-365-ideas-lds-teens-teen-... ~$3. For what it may be worth from a relative. (You have to install the publisher's free ebook app, to read it though.) (edit: I found eHarmony's approach, though not really their IT department, to work really well for me.)

lcall 9y ago
A correction/ps, too late to edit: there is also apparently a kindle edition of the $3 "365 date ideas", so no niche app needed (though that's a nice app too, i have it): https://www.amazon.com/Date-Day-Ideas-Teens-Teen-ebook/dp/B008X9NZPW/ref=sr_1_1/134-9201808-3905701?ie=UTF8&qid=1498779281&sr=8-1&keywords=charly+troff https://www.amazon.com/Date-Day-Ideas-Teens-Teen-ebook/dp/B0...

noveltyaccount 9y ago

> I’m a fat, bald, short guy whose only quality is that he isn’t an ax murderer... But I’m bad at small talk, and I jump too fast to intellectual conversations, making it awkward. None of the engineering addressed root causes. Solve the confidence first, and then hack your way to a better physique, and maybe pick up some interests that are universal and easy to chat about.

logfromblammo 9y ago
>> ...isn't an ax murderer... > ...hack your way to a better physique... Got it. Buying an axe ASAP... ~

watwut 9y ago

The attempt seems to lack any attempt to recognise the one or reflect what it is that he looks for in a girl. Whether the first meeting is fun and engaging and whether you two can be together long term are very different things. I also think that sending three messages in three days despite being ignored selects shared traits in the group. I mean, he said he is shy but acted super active sociable and needy online. So he might be selecting girls who look for needy dude or want dude who is highly sociable. Instead, shy introverted dude who need excell to figure out inappropriate thing to say appeared. That can't be match.

patkob 9y ago

How a Math Genius Hacked OkCupid to Find True Love (wired.com) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7099855 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7099855

criddell 9y ago

I think he actually found the love of his life and hasn't realized it. Turns out, it's a Python script.

mynegation 9y ago

That reminded me of my wife's friend who wrote a book[1] about her experience of outsourcing dating. Being a woman she has the reverse problem of too many suitors. She outsourced the vetting process and initial conversation to the hired assistants (yes, plural), with mixed success. In my experience any kind of scenario where friction is removed (never have been on tinder, but I would imagine it is even more pronounced than a crowded bar) leads to that kind of imbalance. One of tradeoffs that might work for some males is to put themselves into a kind of situations that puts them next to females for a prolonged amount of time. School, work, and neighbours are classic, but that also includes dance schools, sports, and frequent parties with mutual friends. Women are much more likely to spend time with you if they feel like they already know you a bit. [1] http://datingvandalized.com/ http://datingvandalized.com/

Grue3 9y ago

This is a depressing read. Here we have a "startup founder" (=relatively wealthy), who isn't that bad-looking, using a complicated script to massively increase his opportunities and he still can't get a date. Is there even hope for the rest of us?

amackera 9y ago
Haha well he got plenty of dates (150 of them), he just never found that special someone. TBH I think his problem was that he didn't quality his leads well enough.
vertex-four 9y ago
Yes, there is hope. Don't work your life away, and actually get out and do things. Places I've met people: roleplaying groups, kink communities, hobby-related conferences and workshops, local events, completely random social IRC channels. It can take just one off-hand comment on a shared interest to lead to a conversation and a spark. Also note that the sort of person who finds enjoyment in automating away social interaction is unlikely to be enjoyable to socially interact with.

elterago 9y ago

if author is reading this - unsolicited advice: hit the gym, lose the gut. As for the balding head - shave it! Surprising numbers of females dig it. And kudos for charity donation! Good luck

mangofoobar 9y ago

There is no such thing as the "One". That's called Oneitis. This guy has no game and is offering to be a door mat and pay for the women before he even really talked to her. I went on a 100 first dates in a year amd got 12 girlfriends out of it

jyriand 9y ago

Cant't read the story, submitted link is redirecting to medium.com.

ricardobeat 9y ago

Looks like the article has now been deleted - it also disappeared from google amp cache.

pw 9y ago

It seems like he might have been better off working on his social skills than his date generating machine.

angryasian 9y ago

how did he interact with mobile tinder ?

notyourday 9y ago

He was solving a wrong problem using a wrong set of tools. He clearly stated that what he wanted was a walking womb however what he offered in his profile was something else. No engineering optimization would make someone who wants a steak happy in a place offering omakase.

anotherevan 9y ago

I love that down in the comments he was asked if any of those 150 dates resulted in him getting laid, and his response was, "44.7%"

tuxguy 9y ago

The original link seems to be redirecting to medium.com. This is the correct link, if OP or admin can fix it https://medium.com/the-mission/looking-for-the-one-how-i-went-on-150-dates-in-4-months-bf43a095516c https://medium.com/the-mission/looking-for-the-one-how-i-wen...

streetdrag 9y ago

Here in Paris, many people in their thirties are single like me, and many are on dating sites. I had a lot of dates on a french site called adoptecunmec unlike Tinder. After manual experiences, I started a script which notified me when new girls registered on the website, so I could message them before their inbox would be full. A lot of them were closing their account because of the insane number of lame messages. I didn't finish this script because I decided to stop all these dating sites and focused on street drag. After work, I visit Paris (which I still don't know well) and talk to girls, as many as I can. It's successful. I don't have this disapppointment on dates like you have with online dating, people don't cheat with their pictures. Of course, you take rakes, you get phone numbers and girls won't respond to you, but at least they won't next you as fast as online dating people do. Some figures: I would go out for 2 hours and get 2-3 phone numbers, thanks to weeks of practice. Please stop online dating and get out, you'll get a pleasant time and this will be much less time-consuming. PS: - advices on street drag https://www.reddit.com/r/seduction/top/ https://www.reddit.com/r/seduction/top/ - this youtube guy helped me a lot https://youtu.be/DTDrnasfg_g?t=330 https://youtu.be/DTDrnasfg_g?t=330