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Piecework is perfectly legal in the US: https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/wages/industrialhomework https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/wages/industrialhomework

rljy 9y ago
No it is not. You are allowed to pay by the peice, but you must pay at least minimum wage, you must pay sick leave, you must pay health insurance, you cannot fire for unjust cause (at least in Europe). That marks the definitive end to piece work as we knew it in Adam Smith's time when a stranger could show up at the factory door and be paid by the piece for one day or one afternoon, something which really was even common in the era before the "Fair Labor Standards Act" was passed [1]. To quote from your linked article on the Act "All individually covered homework is subject to the FLSA's minimum wage, overtime, and recordkeeping requirements. Employers must provide workers with handbooks to record time, expenses, and pay information." [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piece_work#Minimum_wage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piece_work#Minimum_wage
- Obi_Juan_Kenobi 9y ago
  Setting a floor for piecework pay isn't the same as making it illegal. There's still payment according to widgets produced in all other cases. I agree that it does change some of the incentives for piecework, and perhaps you could argue that it's effectively prohibited, but piecework per se is nevertheless perfectly legal.
  - sverige 9y ago
    It is the basis for pay for most over-the-road truck drivers, who are paid by miles driven.
  - Qwertious 9y ago
    The point is that if you're receiving a minimum of the minimum wage, then by definition you're getting a wage. If you're getting a wage, then you're being paid per hour. If you're being paid per hour, then you're not being paid piecework and OP owes his/her employer another 38 hours per week.
    - aidenn0 9y ago
      If your piecework is enough to make more than 40 hours at the minimum wage, then you don't owe the employer anything because the calculation for your pay is now decoupled from the hours that you work.
- ufmace 9y ago
  Using those same arguments, working for wages is also illegal because of the same legal requirements for minimum wage, breaks, insurance, and whatnot. Sounds to me like saying "Piecework is illegal" is oversimplified to the point of being false, if not highly misleading.
timthelion 9y ago
The fact that minumum wage/sick leave ect must be paid is relevant to this specific example, because it is very much unclear how these rules would be applied to the person working 2 hours a week on a job they have automated away. Is that a full time worker who should get mandatory health insurance or a part time worker? Does that status change over time as the automation improves?
- Dylan16807 9y ago
  > it is very much unclear how these rules would be applied to the person working 2 hours a week on a job they have automated away. Is that an important question? Presumably that person is running their automation enough that they get more than minimum wage.

rljy 9y ago

No it is not. You are allowed to pay by the peice, but you must pay at least minimum wage, you must pay sick leave, you must pay health insurance, you cannot fire for unjust cause (at least in Europe). That marks the definitive end to piece work as we knew it in Adam Smith's time when a stranger could show up at the factory door and be paid by the piece for one day or one afternoon, something which really was even common in the era before the "Fair Labor Standards Act" was passed [1]. To quote from your linked article on the Act "All individually covered homework is subject to the FLSA's minimum wage, overtime, and recordkeeping requirements. Employers must provide workers with handbooks to record time, expenses, and pay information." [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piece_work#Minimum_wage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piece_work#Minimum_wage

Obi_Juan_Kenobi 9y ago
Setting a floor for piecework pay isn't the same as making it illegal. There's still payment according to widgets produced in all other cases. I agree that it does change some of the incentives for piecework, and perhaps you could argue that it's effectively prohibited, but piecework per se is nevertheless perfectly legal.
- sverige 9y ago
  It is the basis for pay for most over-the-road truck drivers, who are paid by miles driven.
- Qwertious 9y ago
  The point is that if you're receiving a minimum of the minimum wage, then by definition you're getting a wage. If you're getting a wage, then you're being paid per hour. If you're being paid per hour, then you're not being paid piecework and OP owes his/her employer another 38 hours per week.
  - aidenn0 9y ago
    If your piecework is enough to make more than 40 hours at the minimum wage, then you don't owe the employer anything because the calculation for your pay is now decoupled from the hours that you work.
ufmace 9y ago
Using those same arguments, working for wages is also illegal because of the same legal requirements for minimum wage, breaks, insurance, and whatnot. Sounds to me like saying "Piecework is illegal" is oversimplified to the point of being false, if not highly misleading.

timthelion 9y ago

The fact that minumum wage/sick leave ect must be paid is relevant to this specific example, because it is very much unclear how these rules would be applied to the person working 2 hours a week on a job they have automated away. Is that a full time worker who should get mandatory health insurance or a part time worker? Does that status change over time as the automation improves?

Dylan16807 9y ago
> it is very much unclear how these rules would be applied to the person working 2 hours a week on a job they have automated away. Is that an important question? Presumably that person is running their automation enough that they get more than minimum wage.