8 ms·

Does it matter if we send something out? The distances seem too vast. Our signals decay so fast that you need moon sized antennas to receive them beyond a few l

by okket 9y ago

Does it matter if we send something out? The distances seem too vast. Our signals decay so fast that you need moon sized antennas to receive them beyond a few light years. Also, so far, no one seems to be out there. And even if: Why would anyone spend an enormous amount of energy and time to reach us, a miniature rock that has nothing to offer to a space faring race?

GuardianCaveman 9y ago
If we had the resources wouldn't we visit another planet with intelligent life? Wouldn't that become a primary focus for the human race?
- amelius 9y ago
  I don't want to sound negative, but considering we have so many problems with racism already, think of the problems we'd face when there would be another intelligent species around! There's probably a reason why there is only one intelligent species on Earth, and it isn't pretty. Finally, by the time we'd be able to visit another planet, we'd probably prefer sitting in our Holodecks all day.
  - ekianjo 9y ago
    > There's probably a reason why there is only one intelligent species on Earth, and it isn't pretty. ONe intelligent species on Earth? So you are assuming most animals are moving objects without any thought or emotion?
  - Broken_Hippo 9y ago
    Maybe, maybe not. It would more depend on circumstances - friendly encounter might not go so badly. Just because we haven't solved some things doesn't mean we shouldn't try others or open other doors. Even if we do it despite the fact that racism is still a problem.
  - throwanem 9y ago
    > only one intelligent species on Earth Dolphins are pretty smart! Mean like us, too. If we and they didn't inhabit incompatible environments, I suspect we'd have had some complicated history with them, and probably now speak of them in the past tense - or they'd speak so of us.
    - pjmlp 9y ago
      Ravens as well.
      - throwanem 9y ago
        They are! I recently had to make peace with a family of them, one of whose fledglings I had inadvertently upset by getting too close with a camera. Fortunately, ravens are smart enough to recognize the combination of repeated food offerings, and a demurral to repeat the initial rudeness, as earnest of good intent - walking out the door with my camera no longer provokes alarm calls and surveillance overflights. Catbirds, not so much - I pissed off one of those back when there was snow on the ground, and I suspect he'd still quite happily rip my lungs out if he could.
nils-m-holm 9y ago
You are not reading enough science fiction. ;) I would suggest Peter Watts' "Blindsight" or Liu Cixin's "Three Body Problem" trilogy.
- Flow 9y ago
  Or The Killing Star. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Killing_Star https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Killing_Star
  - sho 9y ago
    "Or"? They're all excellent and I highly recommend all of them, especially the 3 body problem series. And honestly the killing star has aged.. weirdly. Amazing concept, seemingly written by an author with multiple personalities, one of whom just cannot shut up about the Titanic
    - Flow 9y ago
      I thought about that when I read the book. How weird to write about such grandiose ideas as interstellar travel and then go on and describe the wreck of Titanic as something marvelous and mysterious. Has he written about Titanic in his other books too?
- taneq 9y ago
  "They're not just going to be smart... they're going to be mean."
- andyjohnson0 9y ago
  I enjoyed Blindsight, but it may not be very reassuring to someone concerned about the possibility of aliens arriving with the intention of using us as a food source. And I really, really tried hard with The Three Body Problem. I get that the English version is a translation, but in the end the flowery language and slow plot just wore me down. Did anyone else have the same experience? (Off topic, but I find that the problem with fiction based on SETI / first contact is that the subject often ends up being used as a metaphor for the human condition and the difficulty of really communicating with other people. Which is fine, but doesn't make for satisfying SF in my experience.)
andyjohnson0 9y ago
> Our signals decay so fast that you need moon sized antennas to receive them beyond a few light years. This is true for relatively low power omni-directional broadcast signals such as terrestrial TV and radio. The signals proposed by the METI community (and those that have already been sent - e.g. from Arecibo) are broadcast at much higher power using a concentrated beam, and would be detectable over interstellar distances using technology similar to that which we have now.
- kronos29296 9y ago
  At a time where there is energy scarcity due to increased consumption, I question the economic viability of such an impractical endeavour being carried out under such government support. (Wow I just used so many new words!!!!) Still this is not a movie where the aliens are on next moon so even if they picked up the signals it would long after the next few generations die off (Light years away - Man they are damn far off). (living in a developing country would give you a whole new perspective on energy scarcity)
  - andyjohnson0 9y ago
    It's not being done because anyone thinks its economically viable. And anyway it's being paid for by private donors, not the US government.
    - dkersten 9y ago
      If some action is a waste of resources, then who provides the resources doesn't change whether it's a waste or not. In this case, if sending a signal into space takes a lot of energy and if energy is scarce, then it's a waste of energy regardless of if the government provides it or a private donor. EDIT: I'm not saying this is true in this particular case (I'm also not saying that its not true), I'm merely stating that whether something is a waste doesn't matter on who is doing the wasting. I would gladly listen to a counter argument and maybe a discussion can be had, but I guess its easier to click a down arrow. Oh well. (Yes, yes, I know it'll happen even more due to my mentioning it)
intoverflow2 9y ago
>a miniature rock that has nothing to offer to a space faring race? I'd think a truly space faring race would probably have very different goals to us and the currency of culture would be much more valuable than natural resources which surely are abundant if space travel is trivial to you. Looking at it that way we'd have a hell of a lot to offer.
- andyjohnson0 9y ago
  I agree. If a culture makes the effort to become space faring then it seems likely that either they had a preexisting motivation/goal, or the experience would change them.
yitchelle 9y ago
> you need moon sized antennas to receive them beyond a few light years. I guess that this comment is based on our technologies that we have _now_....
Broken_Hippo 9y ago
Why would anyone spend an enormous amount of energy and time to reach us, a miniature rock that has nothing to offer to a space faring race? Folks spend lifetimes thinking of philosophy or working on a single science problem. In addition, we are still exploring oceans, depths of volcanos, and we explore space as much as we can without actually travelling to the places ourselves. We research animals and our own bodies. Some folks spend a lifetime making music. Not all of these has a payback outside of satisfying curiosity or enjoyment, at least not upfront. Considering this, why would it seem odd that a race would explore what there is to explore?

by okket 9y ago

GuardianCaveman 9y ago

If we had the resources wouldn't we visit another planet with intelligent life? Wouldn't that become a primary focus for the human race?

amelius 9y ago
I don't want to sound negative, but considering we have so many problems with racism already, think of the problems we'd face when there would be another intelligent species around! There's probably a reason why there is only one intelligent species on Earth, and it isn't pretty. Finally, by the time we'd be able to visit another planet, we'd probably prefer sitting in our Holodecks all day.
- ekianjo 9y ago
  > There's probably a reason why there is only one intelligent species on Earth, and it isn't pretty. ONe intelligent species on Earth? So you are assuming most animals are moving objects without any thought or emotion?
- Broken_Hippo 9y ago
  Maybe, maybe not. It would more depend on circumstances - friendly encounter might not go so badly. Just because we haven't solved some things doesn't mean we shouldn't try others or open other doors. Even if we do it despite the fact that racism is still a problem.
- throwanem 9y ago
  > only one intelligent species on Earth Dolphins are pretty smart! Mean like us, too. If we and they didn't inhabit incompatible environments, I suspect we'd have had some complicated history with them, and probably now speak of them in the past tense - or they'd speak so of us.
  - pjmlp 9y ago
    Ravens as well.
    - throwanem 9y ago
      They are! I recently had to make peace with a family of them, one of whose fledglings I had inadvertently upset by getting too close with a camera. Fortunately, ravens are smart enough to recognize the combination of repeated food offerings, and a demurral to repeat the initial rudeness, as earnest of good intent - walking out the door with my camera no longer provokes alarm calls and surveillance overflights. Catbirds, not so much - I pissed off one of those back when there was snow on the ground, and I suspect he'd still quite happily rip my lungs out if he could.

nils-m-holm 9y ago

You are not reading enough science fiction. ;) I would suggest Peter Watts' "Blindsight" or Liu Cixin's "Three Body Problem" trilogy.

Flow 9y ago
Or The Killing Star. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Killing_Star https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Killing_Star
- sho 9y ago
  "Or"? They're all excellent and I highly recommend all of them, especially the 3 body problem series. And honestly the killing star has aged.. weirdly. Amazing concept, seemingly written by an author with multiple personalities, one of whom just cannot shut up about the Titanic
  - Flow 9y ago
    I thought about that when I read the book. How weird to write about such grandiose ideas as interstellar travel and then go on and describe the wreck of Titanic as something marvelous and mysterious. Has he written about Titanic in his other books too?
taneq 9y ago
"They're not just going to be smart... they're going to be mean."
andyjohnson0 9y ago
I enjoyed Blindsight, but it may not be very reassuring to someone concerned about the possibility of aliens arriving with the intention of using us as a food source. And I really, really tried hard with The Three Body Problem. I get that the English version is a translation, but in the end the flowery language and slow plot just wore me down. Did anyone else have the same experience? (Off topic, but I find that the problem with fiction based on SETI / first contact is that the subject often ends up being used as a metaphor for the human condition and the difficulty of really communicating with other people. Which is fine, but doesn't make for satisfying SF in my experience.)

andyjohnson0 9y ago

> Our signals decay so fast that you need moon sized antennas to receive them beyond a few light years. This is true for relatively low power omni-directional broadcast signals such as terrestrial TV and radio. The signals proposed by the METI community (and those that have already been sent - e.g. from Arecibo) are broadcast at much higher power using a concentrated beam, and would be detectable over interstellar distances using technology similar to that which we have now.

kronos29296 9y ago
At a time where there is energy scarcity due to increased consumption, I question the economic viability of such an impractical endeavour being carried out under such government support. (Wow I just used so many new words!!!!) Still this is not a movie where the aliens are on next moon so even if they picked up the signals it would long after the next few generations die off (Light years away - Man they are damn far off). (living in a developing country would give you a whole new perspective on energy scarcity)
- andyjohnson0 9y ago
  It's not being done because anyone thinks its economically viable. And anyway it's being paid for by private donors, not the US government.
  - dkersten 9y ago
    If some action is a waste of resources, then who provides the resources doesn't change whether it's a waste or not. In this case, if sending a signal into space takes a lot of energy and if energy is scarce, then it's a waste of energy regardless of if the government provides it or a private donor. EDIT: I'm not saying this is true in this particular case (I'm also not saying that its not true), I'm merely stating that whether something is a waste doesn't matter on who is doing the wasting. I would gladly listen to a counter argument and maybe a discussion can be had, but I guess its easier to click a down arrow. Oh well. (Yes, yes, I know it'll happen even more due to my mentioning it)

intoverflow2 9y ago

>a miniature rock that has nothing to offer to a space faring race? I'd think a truly space faring race would probably have very different goals to us and the currency of culture would be much more valuable than natural resources which surely are abundant if space travel is trivial to you. Looking at it that way we'd have a hell of a lot to offer.

andyjohnson0 9y ago
I agree. If a culture makes the effort to become space faring then it seems likely that either they had a preexisting motivation/goal, or the experience would change them.

yitchelle 9y ago

> you need moon sized antennas to receive them beyond a few light years. I guess that this comment is based on our technologies that we have _now_....

Broken_Hippo 9y ago

Why would anyone spend an enormous amount of energy and time to reach us, a miniature rock that has nothing to offer to a space faring race? Folks spend lifetimes thinking of philosophy or working on a single science problem. In addition, we are still exploring oceans, depths of volcanos, and we explore space as much as we can without actually travelling to the places ourselves. We research animals and our own bodies. Some folks spend a lifetime making music. Not all of these has a payback outside of satisfying curiosity or enjoyment, at least not upfront. Considering this, why would it seem odd that a race would explore what there is to explore?