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But they define "moderate" as 2 drinks/day for a man. That is 14 drinks a week which puts you in the second highest decile for Americans! https://www.washingt

But they define "moderate" as 2 drinks/day for a man. That is 14 drinks a week which puts you in the second highest decile for Americans! https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/09/25/think-you-drink-a-lot-this-chart-will-tell-you/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/09/25/think...

TylerE 9y ago
A "drink" is not in line with common vernacular though. What most people would call a "drink" is usually about 1.5 or more drinks by the medical standard. A decent sized glass of red wine can easily be 3 drinks.
- jogjayr 9y ago
  The article says a 12 oz beer (slightly larger than the standard 330ml beer) is 1 drink for the purposes of the study.
  - fumar 9y ago
    What about alcohol content
    - opportune 9y ago
      It's actually 0.6 ounces of alcohol irrespective of alcohol content. Therefore 12 oz 5% beer = 1.5 oz 40% liquor = 5 oz 12% wine = 1 unit
  - haswell 9y ago
    I couldn't get beyond the paywall, but did they mention which sort of beer? Standard Bud/Miller products? Using a 12 oz beer as a starting point doesn't mean much in a craft beer world with most "good" beers ranging from 5-8% ABV. Edit: not really understanding the downvotes? Alcohol content is extremely important in understanding the meaning of a "drink". Not trying to be pedantic, but now more than ever, "a beer" is not really a useful descriptor. I bring this up because I personally enjoy a beer at the end of a long day. I tend to drink IPAs, and those IPAs tend to range from 6-8% ABV. Trying to put this article in the context of my personal habits.
    - prodmerc 9y ago
      Every time I ask what defines a "drink" in absolute terms of alcohol content I get downvoted too.
      - sjg007 9y ago
        It's 8 grams or 10 mL of pure alcohol. So you would need to calculate that based on percentage and volume for the specific drink. But you can reason using the "standard beer/wine/whiskey units" as a rule of thumb and round up by 1 or 2 total drinks over the course of say a few IPAs vs Budweisers. Same if you drink 100 proof vs 80. Or 15% zinfandel vs 12% merlot.
      - wutbrodo 9y ago
        A good rule of thumb that my college alcohol edu used was a 12 oz beer, 4 oz glass of wine, and 1.5 oz shot all equaled one drink, at 4,12,and 36% respectively. You'll obviously need to adjust for those numbers but it has always helped anchor me (even though I haven't had a 4% beer since college).
    - DanBC 9y ago
      In the UK we use "units of alcohol". One unit of alcohol is defined as 10 ml of pure alcohol. That's about 8 gm (I think). In the UK the strength of an alcoholic drink is given as Alcohol by Volume, as a percentage. Beer is typically about 5%. To work out the unit you multiply the serving size in liters by the ABV number. A 330 ml bottle of beer at 5% = 0.33 * 5 = 1.65 units. (The bottle would probably say 1.7 units.) The US uses a different amount of alcohol for their standard drink. I think they use 12 gm of pure alcohol. (EDIT: I didn't downvote you. I upvoted you. I don't understand the downvotes.)
      - pouetpouet 9y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_drink#Definitions_in_various_countries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_drink#Definitions_in_... The standard varies by countries. The UK unit is 8g, the australian and french units are 10g, the american and german units are 14g.
  - novia 9y ago
    According to the study which was linked in another comment [1] they were using the standard defined in [2]. This site shows that one pint of lager counts as 2 units of alcohol. One pint is 19.2 oz [3]. A bottle of beer is usually 12 oz, aka 5/8 of a pint, aka 1.25 units of alcohol. I trust the source over the science journalist. [1] http://www.bmj.com/content/357/bmj.j2353 http://www.bmj.com/content/357/bmj.j2353 [2] https://www.alcoholconcern.org.uk/unit-calculator https://www.alcoholconcern.org.uk/unit-calculator [3] Google failed me here. British pints are 19.2 oz, not 12 oz, as pointed out in the comments below. On a slightly unrelated note.. A woman would be defined as a moderate drinker if she drinks more than one unit a day, but most beer companies don't sell ~10 oz cans of beer. When I feel like drinking at a restaurant, I make a joke and ask for a "child size" beer. When I drink at home, I usually have to pour out part of the full bottle of beer because it is just too much. It seems like a waste!
    - squeaky-clean 9y ago
      They give a more helpful description within the paper as well. > 1 unit contains 10 mL or 8 g of alcohol > 14 units (UK guidance per week for men and women) is equivalent to 4 pints of high strength beer or 5 large glasses of 14% wine (see below) > 24.5 units (US guidance for men) is equivalent to 7 pints of beer or 9 glasses of wine So 4 pints of high strength beer is 14 "units". 5.2% is the value used, which I wouldn't consider a very high strength beer at all ;)
      - geoelectric 9y ago
        Keep in mind their pint (568ml, per paper) is an imperial pint (19.2 fl oz) and not an American pint (16 fl oz). So, in US terms, UK guidance is ~5 pints and US/men is ~8.5 pints. Not a huge difference in terms of point made, but mostly so the message doesn't get garbled over the pond. Also, their "high strength beer" in the paper (5.2%) is pretty much normal for American lager, so don't get thrown off by the high strength bit.
    - Symbiote 9y ago
      One British pint is 568mL, and one "unit" of alcohol is 10mL -- I think the latter might be a European standard. That makes a ½pt (284mL) beer, at 3.5%, almost exactly 10mL of alcohol (284*0.035 = 9.94). The average beer is stronger than it was 20 years ago, but there's still a feeling that 1pt = 2 units in Britain.
  - oliveshell 9y ago
    Right, but beer varies widely in alcohol content. One "standard beer" might be defined as 12 oz / ~330ml @ 4.5% alcohol by volume, but many IPAs are 6-7% or greater, and in most U.S. states you can find lots of beer in excess of 10% ABV.
    - frankquestions 9y ago
      “Lots of beer in excess of 10%” is a bit of a stretch. I think it’s more common to see the 6-7% range represented with something pushing 10% being the outlier.
    - ramses0 9y ago
      '''In general getting much above 10-15%abv requires specialty yeasts or concentration techniques, and getting much above 20% is going to require some sort of concentration.''' https://alcohol.stackexchange.com/questions/110/what-is-the-highest-alcohol-content-achievable-through-brewing https://alcohol.stackexchange.com/questions/110/what-is-the-...
      - freehunter 9y ago
        One of my favorites is Founders Kentucky Breakfast Stout, which is a barrel-aged beer and is around 13%. Actually where I live, barrel-aged beers are becoming very common, most craft breweries have them. And they're all above 10%. Not debating the "specialty concentration techniques" since it's basically infusing the beer with whiskey, but it's certainly very easy to get a beer with an ABV above 10%. Very easy. Your local liquor store likely has several varieties in stock right now.
  - dghughes 9y ago
    A bit of a weird and somewhat related trivia to the question of what is a drink there is a reverse situation in Canada sometimes. In Canada (and UK?) legally a pint is 20 fluid ounces but in the USA it's 16 fluid ounces. Some bars in Canada serve 16 oz drinks calling it a pint. My guess is they buy "pint size" glassware from the US but it's 16 oz..
- uiri 9y ago
  You are correct when it comes to beer and wine. When it comes to liquor, a drink is usually 1.5oz (which is the size of an actual shot) but bars and clubs will frequently pour 1oz and call it a shot.
marssaxman 9y ago
Americans are practically teetotallers, apparently?
- gozur88 9y ago
  We drink about 30% less alcohol than the Brits and the French (who drink about the same amount).
- hughw 9y ago
  It's unevenly distributed
janekm 9y ago
But the highest decile is >74 drinks / week so 2 per day really is moderate in comparison... that article is quite the eye-opener!
raverbashing 9y ago
Yes, that's a pretty high amount
resu_nimda 9y ago
The study linked in the article says "Information was collected in face-to-face computer-assisted interviews conducted in the participants’ homes." [1] It seems like this is a study where people might be likely to lie about their consumption, or even earnestly estimate it incorrectly. Is there any way to control for that? The distribution feels too extreme, like a significant number of people underestimated and overestimated at either end of the spectrum. [1]https://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/AA70/AA70.htm https://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/AA70/AA70.htm
- sjg007 9y ago
  Multiply by 1.5 or 2 usually. Much like software estimates.
- pavement 9y ago
  One sure-fire way to control for this sort of loose testimonial data is to collect many volunteers among those who affirm such habits, and follow many or all of them longitudinally, and engage with them and make observations, hopefully without influencing behavior too much. It's not a short-cut by any means, if that's what you had in mind.
capkutay 9y ago
I would consider moderate drinking to be 4-5 drinks a week (drinking socially weekends). 2 drinks/night is practically getting drunk/tipsy every night. In what world is that moderate?
- lambdaxdotx 9y ago
  Moderation is contextual.
- asciimo 9y ago
  Congratulations, you are not an alcoholic!
  - DanBC 9y ago
    People who drink 2 drinks a night are not dependent drinkers either. This study is not about people dependent on alcohol. It's about people who drink at or slightly above the recommended limits (When the study started the limits were 21 drinks a week for men).
    - asciimo 9y ago
      Thank you, but my comment wasn't about the study. My comment was a direct response to the parent's opinion about what is considered moderate drinking. An alcoholic would have a much more liberal judgment.
- theatraine 9y ago
  The consensus among my University classmates was that moderate drinking was drinking until you are moderately drunk (say around 6 drinks). It seems like they were poorly informed.
- anigbrowl 9y ago
  I usually drink a bottle of beer with dinner and I don't think this makes me any kind of heavy drinker. I'm probably doing more subtle long-term damage to my body from drinking 4-5 large cups of tea every day.

TylerE 9y ago

A "drink" is not in line with common vernacular though. What most people would call a "drink" is usually about 1.5 or more drinks by the medical standard. A decent sized glass of red wine can easily be 3 drinks.

jogjayr 9y ago
The article says a 12 oz beer (slightly larger than the standard 330ml beer) is 1 drink for the purposes of the study.
- fumar 9y ago
  What about alcohol content
  - opportune 9y ago
    It's actually 0.6 ounces of alcohol irrespective of alcohol content. Therefore 12 oz 5% beer = 1.5 oz 40% liquor = 5 oz 12% wine = 1 unit
- haswell 9y ago
  I couldn't get beyond the paywall, but did they mention which sort of beer? Standard Bud/Miller products? Using a 12 oz beer as a starting point doesn't mean much in a craft beer world with most "good" beers ranging from 5-8% ABV. Edit: not really understanding the downvotes? Alcohol content is extremely important in understanding the meaning of a "drink". Not trying to be pedantic, but now more than ever, "a beer" is not really a useful descriptor. I bring this up because I personally enjoy a beer at the end of a long day. I tend to drink IPAs, and those IPAs tend to range from 6-8% ABV. Trying to put this article in the context of my personal habits.
  - prodmerc 9y ago
    Every time I ask what defines a "drink" in absolute terms of alcohol content I get downvoted too.
    - sjg007 9y ago
      It's 8 grams or 10 mL of pure alcohol. So you would need to calculate that based on percentage and volume for the specific drink. But you can reason using the "standard beer/wine/whiskey units" as a rule of thumb and round up by 1 or 2 total drinks over the course of say a few IPAs vs Budweisers. Same if you drink 100 proof vs 80. Or 15% zinfandel vs 12% merlot.
    - wutbrodo 9y ago
      A good rule of thumb that my college alcohol edu used was a 12 oz beer, 4 oz glass of wine, and 1.5 oz shot all equaled one drink, at 4,12,and 36% respectively. You'll obviously need to adjust for those numbers but it has always helped anchor me (even though I haven't had a 4% beer since college).
  - DanBC 9y ago
    In the UK we use "units of alcohol". One unit of alcohol is defined as 10 ml of pure alcohol. That's about 8 gm (I think). In the UK the strength of an alcoholic drink is given as Alcohol by Volume, as a percentage. Beer is typically about 5%. To work out the unit you multiply the serving size in liters by the ABV number. A 330 ml bottle of beer at 5% = 0.33 * 5 = 1.65 units. (The bottle would probably say 1.7 units.) The US uses a different amount of alcohol for their standard drink. I think they use 12 gm of pure alcohol. (EDIT: I didn't downvote you. I upvoted you. I don't understand the downvotes.)
    - pouetpouet 9y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_drink#Definitions_in_various_countries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_drink#Definitions_in_... The standard varies by countries. The UK unit is 8g, the australian and french units are 10g, the american and german units are 14g.
- novia 9y ago
  According to the study which was linked in another comment [1] they were using the standard defined in [2]. This site shows that one pint of lager counts as 2 units of alcohol. One pint is 19.2 oz [3]. A bottle of beer is usually 12 oz, aka 5/8 of a pint, aka 1.25 units of alcohol. I trust the source over the science journalist. [1] http://www.bmj.com/content/357/bmj.j2353 http://www.bmj.com/content/357/bmj.j2353 [2] https://www.alcoholconcern.org.uk/unit-calculator https://www.alcoholconcern.org.uk/unit-calculator [3] Google failed me here. British pints are 19.2 oz, not 12 oz, as pointed out in the comments below. On a slightly unrelated note.. A woman would be defined as a moderate drinker if she drinks more than one unit a day, but most beer companies don't sell ~10 oz cans of beer. When I feel like drinking at a restaurant, I make a joke and ask for a "child size" beer. When I drink at home, I usually have to pour out part of the full bottle of beer because it is just too much. It seems like a waste!
  - squeaky-clean 9y ago
    They give a more helpful description within the paper as well. > 1 unit contains 10 mL or 8 g of alcohol > 14 units (UK guidance per week for men and women) is equivalent to 4 pints of high strength beer or 5 large glasses of 14% wine (see below) > 24.5 units (US guidance for men) is equivalent to 7 pints of beer or 9 glasses of wine So 4 pints of high strength beer is 14 "units". 5.2% is the value used, which I wouldn't consider a very high strength beer at all ;)
    - geoelectric 9y ago
      Keep in mind their pint (568ml, per paper) is an imperial pint (19.2 fl oz) and not an American pint (16 fl oz). So, in US terms, UK guidance is ~5 pints and US/men is ~8.5 pints. Not a huge difference in terms of point made, but mostly so the message doesn't get garbled over the pond. Also, their "high strength beer" in the paper (5.2%) is pretty much normal for American lager, so don't get thrown off by the high strength bit.
  - Symbiote 9y ago
    One British pint is 568mL, and one "unit" of alcohol is 10mL -- I think the latter might be a European standard. That makes a ½pt (284mL) beer, at 3.5%, almost exactly 10mL of alcohol (284*0.035 = 9.94). The average beer is stronger than it was 20 years ago, but there's still a feeling that 1pt = 2 units in Britain.
- oliveshell 9y ago
  Right, but beer varies widely in alcohol content. One "standard beer" might be defined as 12 oz / ~330ml @ 4.5% alcohol by volume, but many IPAs are 6-7% or greater, and in most U.S. states you can find lots of beer in excess of 10% ABV.
  - frankquestions 9y ago
    “Lots of beer in excess of 10%” is a bit of a stretch. I think it’s more common to see the 6-7% range represented with something pushing 10% being the outlier.
  - ramses0 9y ago
    '''In general getting much above 10-15%abv requires specialty yeasts or concentration techniques, and getting much above 20% is going to require some sort of concentration.''' https://alcohol.stackexchange.com/questions/110/what-is-the-highest-alcohol-content-achievable-through-brewing https://alcohol.stackexchange.com/questions/110/what-is-the-...
    - freehunter 9y ago
      One of my favorites is Founders Kentucky Breakfast Stout, which is a barrel-aged beer and is around 13%. Actually where I live, barrel-aged beers are becoming very common, most craft breweries have them. And they're all above 10%. Not debating the "specialty concentration techniques" since it's basically infusing the beer with whiskey, but it's certainly very easy to get a beer with an ABV above 10%. Very easy. Your local liquor store likely has several varieties in stock right now.
- dghughes 9y ago
  A bit of a weird and somewhat related trivia to the question of what is a drink there is a reverse situation in Canada sometimes. In Canada (and UK?) legally a pint is 20 fluid ounces but in the USA it's 16 fluid ounces. Some bars in Canada serve 16 oz drinks calling it a pint. My guess is they buy "pint size" glassware from the US but it's 16 oz..
uiri 9y ago
You are correct when it comes to beer and wine. When it comes to liquor, a drink is usually 1.5oz (which is the size of an actual shot) but bars and clubs will frequently pour 1oz and call it a shot.

marssaxman 9y ago

Americans are practically teetotallers, apparently?

gozur88 9y ago
We drink about 30% less alcohol than the Brits and the French (who drink about the same amount).
hughw 9y ago
It's unevenly distributed

janekm 9y ago

But the highest decile is >74 drinks / week so 2 per day really is moderate in comparison... that article is quite the eye-opener!

raverbashing 9y ago

Yes, that's a pretty high amount

resu_nimda 9y ago

The study linked in the article says "Information was collected in face-to-face computer-assisted interviews conducted in the participants’ homes." [1] It seems like this is a study where people might be likely to lie about their consumption, or even earnestly estimate it incorrectly. Is there any way to control for that? The distribution feels too extreme, like a significant number of people underestimated and overestimated at either end of the spectrum. [1]https://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/AA70/AA70.htm https://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/AA70/AA70.htm

sjg007 9y ago
Multiply by 1.5 or 2 usually. Much like software estimates.
pavement 9y ago
One sure-fire way to control for this sort of loose testimonial data is to collect many volunteers among those who affirm such habits, and follow many or all of them longitudinally, and engage with them and make observations, hopefully without influencing behavior too much. It's not a short-cut by any means, if that's what you had in mind.

capkutay 9y ago

I would consider moderate drinking to be 4-5 drinks a week (drinking socially weekends). 2 drinks/night is practically getting drunk/tipsy every night. In what world is that moderate?

lambdaxdotx 9y ago
Moderation is contextual.
asciimo 9y ago
Congratulations, you are not an alcoholic!
- DanBC 9y ago
  People who drink 2 drinks a night are not dependent drinkers either. This study is not about people dependent on alcohol. It's about people who drink at or slightly above the recommended limits (When the study started the limits were 21 drinks a week for men).
  - asciimo 9y ago
    Thank you, but my comment wasn't about the study. My comment was a direct response to the parent's opinion about what is considered moderate drinking. An alcoholic would have a much more liberal judgment.
theatraine 9y ago
The consensus among my University classmates was that moderate drinking was drinking until you are moderately drunk (say around 6 drinks). It seems like they were poorly informed.
anigbrowl 9y ago
I usually drink a bottle of beer with dinner and I don't think this makes me any kind of heavy drinker. I'm probably doing more subtle long-term damage to my body from drinking 4-5 large cups of tea every day.