4 ms·

Sounds a lot like deciding what programs are included in your operating system. Do you consider this materially different, and if so why?

by lkbm 9y ago

mythz 9y ago
You can easily go to another website if you want results from a different vendor. If you're searching on Google you'd expect results curated from Google, if you can get better, more relevant results else where, everyone can easily do so. I also wouldn't expect any of my Desktop Apps to be laced with content or functionality from competitive products.
- yellow_postit 9y ago
  Applying this line of reasoning, do you disagree with the EU ruling about browser choice that Microsoft had to comply with?
  - mythz 9y ago
    What line of reasoning? I don't think irremovable Desktop Apps and Websites are comparable or that they should be sanctioned the same way. It didn't have to be a ballot box but I think users should be able to decide what default browser they want to use on first use. I'd prefer to only be install what browsers I want to use. IMO Microsoft is just as hostile now, I can't uninstall Edge from Windows 10, I keep getting nagged to use Edge as my default browser, my preferences to never ask again are not honored. my defaults are lost on each upgrade, despite setting my default browser to Chrome the Windows Search box still opens up results in bing with Edge, I need to use my spam hotmail account to log into Windows 10, I tried using a local account but it broke everywhere that launched a Sign Up page which crashed after 1s of an empty screen, which I needed in order to get the latest version of WSL with the bug fix I needed. In the end I had to reinstall Windows 10 and adopt their stupid Internet account policy. Windows 10 has been the most user hostile OS I've used that I'm planning on switching to using a Windows 2016 Server OS on my next install.
    - uhhfcuvv 9y ago
      > I need to use my spam hotmail account to log into Windows 10, I tried using a local account but it broke everywhere that launched a Sign Up page which crashed after 1s of an empty screen, which I needed in order to get the latest version of WSL with the bug fix I needed. You're lying. You don't need a hotmail account to do any of that.
      - mythz 9y ago
        Can't you read? I said I had tried using my local account initially but then I couldn't use the Windows Sign In dialog for anything, not to access Windows Insider Programme ( Settings > Windows Insider Programme - which you do need an MS account for) not to add another user, not to connect my Internet account, not to login to the Windows Store, Xbox, etc. So after spending a few hours trying to run every hack I could find (none worked) I ended up reinstalling Windows 10 again then kept their default Internet account policy and now everything's working again. Since you don't have any clue what I went through feel free to Google it yourself: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=windows+10+can%27t+add+user+dialog http://lmgtfy.com/?q=windows+10+can%27t+add+user+dialog
itp 9y ago
I do consider this materially different. From the Wikipedia summary of United States v. Microsoft Corporation[0], "Underlying these disputes were questions over whether Microsoft altered or manipulated its application programming interfaces (APIs) to favor Internet Explorer over third party web browsers, Microsoft's conduct in forming restrictive licensing agreements with original equipment manufacturers (OEMs), and Microsoft's intent in its course of conduct." I feel like this detail is being lost in a lot of the comparisons I've seen made between Google now and Microsoft then. Google promotes their own services on their own website, sure. At the same time, they haven't changed Chrome to not load competing services. They have done nothing to prevent users from using competing search engines in Chrome. They don't prevent competing web browsers from loading Google sites. They don't force web sites that use Google ads to block competing browsers. So the parallel doesn't work for me. The EU decided these were different markets, I disagree. I'm a user, I use Google to find things on the internet. I use other sites. I search Amazon directly from inside Chrome, I visit other sites without issue... I'm just not seeing the anticompetitive actions. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Corp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Cor....
- Dylan16807 9y ago
  This has nothing to do with Chrome. It's entirely about the search engine and the results it gives. (Though google does set up special APIs for Chrome first, like SPDY. But that's done in a responsible way.)
lerpa 9y ago
Twice wrong, doesn't make it right.

Sounds a lot like deciding what programs are included in your operating system. Do you consider this materially different, and if so why?

by lkbm 9y ago

Sounds a lot like deciding what programs are included in your operating system. Do you consider this materially different, and if so why?

mythz 9y ago

You can easily go to another website if you want results from a different vendor. If you're searching on Google you'd expect results curated from Google, if you can get better, more relevant results else where, everyone can easily do so. I also wouldn't expect any of my Desktop Apps to be laced with content or functionality from competitive products.

yellow_postit 9y ago
Applying this line of reasoning, do you disagree with the EU ruling about browser choice that Microsoft had to comply with?
- mythz 9y ago
  What line of reasoning? I don't think irremovable Desktop Apps and Websites are comparable or that they should be sanctioned the same way. It didn't have to be a ballot box but I think users should be able to decide what default browser they want to use on first use. I'd prefer to only be install what browsers I want to use. IMO Microsoft is just as hostile now, I can't uninstall Edge from Windows 10, I keep getting nagged to use Edge as my default browser, my preferences to never ask again are not honored. my defaults are lost on each upgrade, despite setting my default browser to Chrome the Windows Search box still opens up results in bing with Edge, I need to use my spam hotmail account to log into Windows 10, I tried using a local account but it broke everywhere that launched a Sign Up page which crashed after 1s of an empty screen, which I needed in order to get the latest version of WSL with the bug fix I needed. In the end I had to reinstall Windows 10 and adopt their stupid Internet account policy. Windows 10 has been the most user hostile OS I've used that I'm planning on switching to using a Windows 2016 Server OS on my next install.
  - uhhfcuvv 9y ago
    > I need to use my spam hotmail account to log into Windows 10, I tried using a local account but it broke everywhere that launched a Sign Up page which crashed after 1s of an empty screen, which I needed in order to get the latest version of WSL with the bug fix I needed. You're lying. You don't need a hotmail account to do any of that.
    - mythz 9y ago
      Can't you read? I said I had tried using my local account initially but then I couldn't use the Windows Sign In dialog for anything, not to access Windows Insider Programme ( Settings > Windows Insider Programme - which you do need an MS account for) not to add another user, not to connect my Internet account, not to login to the Windows Store, Xbox, etc. So after spending a few hours trying to run every hack I could find (none worked) I ended up reinstalling Windows 10 again then kept their default Internet account policy and now everything's working again. Since you don't have any clue what I went through feel free to Google it yourself: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=windows+10+can%27t+add+user+dialog http://lmgtfy.com/?q=windows+10+can%27t+add+user+dialog

itp 9y ago

I do consider this materially different. From the Wikipedia summary of United States v. Microsoft Corporation[0], "Underlying these disputes were questions over whether Microsoft altered or manipulated its application programming interfaces (APIs) to favor Internet Explorer over third party web browsers, Microsoft's conduct in forming restrictive licensing agreements with original equipment manufacturers (OEMs), and Microsoft's intent in its course of conduct." I feel like this detail is being lost in a lot of the comparisons I've seen made between Google now and Microsoft then. Google promotes their own services on their own website, sure. At the same time, they haven't changed Chrome to not load competing services. They have done nothing to prevent users from using competing search engines in Chrome. They don't prevent competing web browsers from loading Google sites. They don't force web sites that use Google ads to block competing browsers. So the parallel doesn't work for me. The EU decided these were different markets, I disagree. I'm a user, I use Google to find things on the internet. I use other sites. I search Amazon directly from inside Chrome, I visit other sites without issue... I'm just not seeing the anticompetitive actions. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Corp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Cor....

Dylan16807 9y ago
This has nothing to do with Chrome. It's entirely about the search engine and the results it gives. (Though google does set up special APIs for Chrome first, like SPDY. But that's done in a responsible way.)

lerpa 9y ago

Twice wrong, doesn't make it right.