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A small percentage of Americans wants to do this. Most Americans are indifferent (as in most countries), but the reactionary party has won the day, and a total

by timr 9y ago

A small percentage of Americans wants to do this. Most Americans are indifferent (as in most countries), but the reactionary party has won the day, and a total lunatic is in the White House. Sadly. But this too shall pass. Not that I disagree with your conclusion: I hope conference organizers (and other groups) do start focusing abroad. The only thing that the GOP reliably responds to is the interests of money. Start moving the tech industry abroad, and see how quickly they change course.

zimpenfish 9y ago
> But this too shall pass. Probably not for several generations if the GOP get to stuff SCOTUS (which is looking increasingly likely with Kennedy's rumoured retirement and the age of the existing Dems on there.) [Edit to correctly reference Kennedy instead of Roberts]
- humanrebar 9y ago
  Do you mean Kennedy? Or do you have any sources on the Roberts rumor? That's not something I have heard.
  - zimpenfish 9y ago
    You are correct - I meant Kennedy. My apologies - I was reading something that included both of them immediately before commenting and my brain conflated the two.
    - humanrebar 9y ago
      We'll, to be fair Kennedy has been a bit of a freebie for the left. He was appointed by a Republican but only votes that way sometimes.
humanrebar 9y ago
I wouldn't call new and capricious changes to immigration policy as right wing or reactionary. It's populist and probably xenophobic but it doesn't really fit on the American ideological spectrum like that. Trump isn't representative of the bulk of the GOP, in other words. When he's gone, you won't see this sort of thing re-emerge. As weird as it sounds to some, Trump won mostly because he was not Clinton, not because there's some ideology being advocated here (modulo Supreme Court justices).
- croon 9y ago
  > Trump won mostly because he was not Clinton, not because there's some ideology being advocated here (modulo Supreme Court justices). 1) That doesn't explain him beating out ~12 other seasoned GOPers in the primaries. 2) His platform. 3) Clinton was portrayed as toxic by attacks, not because she was. "But her emails" was something GOPers and DNCers had done for decades before and Trump staff continues to do today. It's not right, but it's not isolated and there are much worse things going on. It's not an excuse, but it was a distraction.
  - humanrebar 9y ago
    1) Trump didn't even win a majority in the crowded GOP primaries. He was also buoyed for various reasons by a media that would benefit if he won. 2) Trump's platform is Trump. Everybody knows that. He doesn't have an ideology. He contradicted himself all through the campaign so any platform is moot. 3) Clinton was unpopular for many reasons beyond the email stuff. In many ways she was a bad candidate. She was an ultimate political insider, for instance. Personal concerns aside, many people who voted against her were also alarmed that Scalia would be replaced with another Souter or Kagan. Even given Trump's capriciousness, they thought a gamble on a "good" justice was better than a guarantee of a bad one.
  - fnordfnordfnord 9y ago
    Trump capitalized on a rare opportunity, a huge number of bland establishment candidates who divided support from the moderates. Trump embraced and galvanized the RWNJ faction who were (often rightly) disenfranchised by the moderates, meanwhile the moderates could never sort out which milquetoast candidate to back. That won him the nomination. Then Clinton, a terrible candidate who may have been the only person who could have lost to Trump made a bunch of errors allowing Trump's campaign to flip those rust-belt states. The DNC owns some of the blame here for their long term strategy in those states (or lack of). The RNC also are reaping the fruits of having spent years whipping up the loonies in their party.
- petraeus 9y ago
  Trump won because he was a better politician. Over-promise and under-deliver
briandear 9y ago
So did this not happen ever under Obama? How is this a GOP issue?

by timr 9y ago

zimpenfish 9y ago

> But this too shall pass. Probably not for several generations if the GOP get to stuff SCOTUS (which is looking increasingly likely with Kennedy's rumoured retirement and the age of the existing Dems on there.) [Edit to correctly reference Kennedy instead of Roberts]

humanrebar 9y ago
Do you mean Kennedy? Or do you have any sources on the Roberts rumor? That's not something I have heard.
- zimpenfish 9y ago
  You are correct - I meant Kennedy. My apologies - I was reading something that included both of them immediately before commenting and my brain conflated the two.
  - humanrebar 9y ago
    We'll, to be fair Kennedy has been a bit of a freebie for the left. He was appointed by a Republican but only votes that way sometimes.

humanrebar 9y ago

I wouldn't call new and capricious changes to immigration policy as right wing or reactionary. It's populist and probably xenophobic but it doesn't really fit on the American ideological spectrum like that. Trump isn't representative of the bulk of the GOP, in other words. When he's gone, you won't see this sort of thing re-emerge. As weird as it sounds to some, Trump won mostly because he was not Clinton, not because there's some ideology being advocated here (modulo Supreme Court justices).

croon 9y ago
> Trump won mostly because he was not Clinton, not because there's some ideology being advocated here (modulo Supreme Court justices). 1) That doesn't explain him beating out ~12 other seasoned GOPers in the primaries. 2) His platform. 3) Clinton was portrayed as toxic by attacks, not because she was. "But her emails" was something GOPers and DNCers had done for decades before and Trump staff continues to do today. It's not right, but it's not isolated and there are much worse things going on. It's not an excuse, but it was a distraction.
- humanrebar 9y ago
  1) Trump didn't even win a majority in the crowded GOP primaries. He was also buoyed for various reasons by a media that would benefit if he won. 2) Trump's platform is Trump. Everybody knows that. He doesn't have an ideology. He contradicted himself all through the campaign so any platform is moot. 3) Clinton was unpopular for many reasons beyond the email stuff. In many ways she was a bad candidate. She was an ultimate political insider, for instance. Personal concerns aside, many people who voted against her were also alarmed that Scalia would be replaced with another Souter or Kagan. Even given Trump's capriciousness, they thought a gamble on a "good" justice was better than a guarantee of a bad one.
- fnordfnordfnord 9y ago
  Trump capitalized on a rare opportunity, a huge number of bland establishment candidates who divided support from the moderates. Trump embraced and galvanized the RWNJ faction who were (often rightly) disenfranchised by the moderates, meanwhile the moderates could never sort out which milquetoast candidate to back. That won him the nomination. Then Clinton, a terrible candidate who may have been the only person who could have lost to Trump made a bunch of errors allowing Trump's campaign to flip those rust-belt states. The DNC owns some of the blame here for their long term strategy in those states (or lack of). The RNC also are reaping the fruits of having spent years whipping up the loonies in their party.
petraeus 9y ago
Trump won because he was a better politician. Over-promise and under-deliver

briandear 9y ago

So did this not happen ever under Obama? How is this a GOP issue?