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Harsh and an obvious problem for those over 40 and industry in general, but is this simply the natural result of companies optimizing for maximum productivity a
by notadoc 9y ago
Harsh and an obvious problem for those over 40 and industry in general, but is this simply the natural result of companies optimizing for maximum productivity at the lowest possible cost to them?
Many 40+ year olds have families or other life obligations outside of work, and thus they may not be as willing to put in absurd hours that a young employee could be squeezed for. The older employee also might be more likely to take weekends off, and want to use vacation time.
Additionally, someone over 40 is supposed to be in or near their peak earning years, which lasts ten to twenty more years (or did historically anyway) so their expenditure is going to be significantly more than someone with a few years of experience.
I realize it's one of the lamest analogies possible, but for many companies, employees are quite literally a cog in a larger machine, and so they want the cheapest possible cog at a reasonable quality level that works the longest before breaking down (quitting, getting fired, burning out, etc).
To fight this, I'd bet those over 40 would have to aim to get into important management and executive positions, which are less likely to be swapped out for less experienced, less demanding, and cheaper labor.
- nhebb 9y ago> Many 40+ year olds have families or other life obligations outside of work Why is this a (seemingly) common belief? It seems backwards to me. I had a lot more obligations outside of work in my 20's and 30's when my kids were young than after 40. I'm in my early 50's, and I have more free time now than ever.
- mahyarm 9y agoThe first few years of childhood are absolutely time consuming. You have less and less obligations as they get older and reach teenagehood. They want to spend less time with you!
- notadoc 9y agoI suspect it's because many people are having kids later in life nowadays due to career, education, circumstance, priorities, happenstance, etc. I personally know tons of people in their late 30s and early 40s having their first child, or maybe their second.
- prawn 9y agoI am a few months past 40 and never felt busier. My first child was born when I was 35, FWIW. I don't know many people who had kids in their 20s.
- sotojuan 9y agoI assume the average age-at-first-child of tech workers in urban areas is 30-35. That makes the early 40s still fairly busy. Still no excuse not to hire anyone.
- arthur_sav 9y agoI'm in my mid 20s and i don't know any friends my age with kids. It's just not very common to want a family before 30.
- scott_karana 9y agoNot sure why people downvoted you... "mean age of first time mother" is climbing and is nearly at 30 years old in most of the developed world now. http://time.com/4181151/first-time-moms-average-age/ http://time.com/4181151/first-time-moms-average-age/ http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/11-630-x/11-630-x2014002-eng.htm http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/11-630-x/11-630-x2014002-eng.ht... http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2016/03/09/pregnancy-around-the-world-age-of-new-mums_n_9416064.html http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2016/03/09/pregnancy-around-...
- branchless 9y agoThe article states it's for a variety of jobs including low-paid by the hour jobs, therefore willingness to work overtime shouldn't be an issue.
- ThomPete 9y agoTell that to Slack :)
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- sotojuan 9y ago> Additionally, someone over 40 is supposed to be in or near their peak earning years, which lasts ten to twenty more years (or did historically anyway) so their expenditure is going to be significantly more than someone with a few years of experience. We pay 25-30 year olds $100-140+k and call then "senior" in this industry. Unless 40 year olds are asking for $200k+ in non-specialised roles, I doubt companies can't afford them. -- My hunch as to why they are getting filtered out is that people think 40+ year olds are out of touch with whatever the 20-30 year old programmers are doing and thus less skilled/able to contribute ASAP. Also there's a weird stigma for people in their 40s+ still programming (as opposed to managing/some high level position) unless they're in some world expert role at Google/Facebook/etc. BTW, in many other upper middle class jobs, you speak in your early 50s or late 40s. Very different from tech indeed!
- WalterBright 9y ago> weird stigma I'm late 50's and write code 7 days a week. I guess I'm in deep doo-doo :-)
- tonyedgecombe 9y agoMe too, I'm obviously over the hill and should abandon the new project I'm just starting.
- geodel 9y agoI think the above post made it cleared by: > unless they're in some world expert role at Google/Facebook/etc. People who hire for A-players or who hold top level position in big companies, politics etc understand there is no paradox in being old people holding top ranks saying we need young blood all across organization.
- WalterBright 9y agoA healthy organization needs a mix of old and young, a mix of rogues and steady hands, etc.
- daxfohl 9y ago> not be as willing to put in absurd hours that a young employee could be squeezed for This is exactly what makes them valuable. They refuse to get sucked into the burnout dynamic.
- coldtea 9y ago>Harsh and an obvious problem for those over 40 and industry in general, but is this simply the natural result of companies optimizing for maximum productivity at the lowest possible cost to them? If we go one step further, it's the result of society allowing them to "optimize for maximum productivity at the lowest possible cost to them" all other things (product quality, workplace safety, agism, sexism, environment, health safety, etc) be damned. Addition: I think shareholders, and the shift of moral and motive center from a person or board to an blob of people is one of the worst structures that's allowing for the above.
- jacquesm 9y agoThat, and young people are much easier to take advantage of.
- mseebach 9y agoI just love this meme that 26 year olds making 3-4x median salary, getting pestered daily by recruiters offering five-figure signing bonuses, are somehow being taken advantage of.
- jacquesm 9y ago> 26 year olds making 3-4x median salary As if that's all of them. Not to mention the ones that are working absolutely insane hours.
- gaius 9y agoMost are not tho': they are being paid mediocre cash salaries with seemingly vast "stock options", and working 80 hours a week. Experienced engineers treat stock options as lottery tickets and insist on fair cash salaries.
- user5994461 9y agoAfter a master at $50k per year and only if they live in one of the two most expensive cities in the world, where twice the national median will not afford them a one bedroom flat in 20 years.
- alkonaut 9y ago> Many 40+ year olds have families or other life obligations outside of work, and thus they may not be as willing to put in absurd hours that a young employee could be squeezed for. This article is from Sweden. Note that the environment and expectations are wildly different in Sweden than in e.g. the US. I am pushing 40 and I have yet to make a 50h week. Sice I had kids 6 years ago I haven't even made a 40h week. Obviously a few tiny startups would need the 25yo type developers to work around the clock, but those employers are so rare and so small that it should not make a difference in the statistics.