4 ms·

Cap'n Obvious here, but immigration by non-Japanese in face of falling Japanese demographics will ultimately result in a country that's not really Japan anymore

Cap'n Obvious here, but immigration by non-Japanese in face of falling Japanese demographics will ultimately result in a country that's not really Japan anymore. That's probably a fact of life, if you consider societies to be living entities, and thus bound by the same constraints...and yet even as a non-Japanese it feels really sad to recognize that Japan as a unique nation, with a unique culture and society might disappear. Not much to do, though, if they don't want to have kids...

akg_67 9y ago
Societies come and go and there is nothing wrong with it that was the response I got from a Japanese elderly man few years ago when we were discussing declining population and future of Japan during my visit to Japan.
- nihonde 9y ago
  Japan's great skill is adaptation without throwing away all the lessons of the past. It's an extremely delicate balancing act that requires a lot of trust in your neighbors. They've been doing it more or less for at least a thousand years, so there's plenty of room for an optimistic outcome. As usual, the narrative in the west is that Japan is going to fail any minute because it hasn't followed the lead of enlightened nations. Meanwhile, moving from NYC to Japan felt like leaping twenty years into a brighter future that I can only hope others will be able to discover. One thing is for sure: Japan in fifty years won't be the same as Japan today. Rapid and determined change is a constant here.
boomboomsubban 9y ago
Most of the unique elements of Japan's culture come from emulating Western programs. First in a militaristic way as a response to Commodore Perry, then as a result of the post-war occupation.
- nopinsight 9y ago
  Tea ceremony, Zen buddhism, Geisha, Samurai, ... from emulating Western programs? Have you read about Japanese culture before commenting?
  - boomboomsubban 9y ago
    Tea ceremony and Zen Buddhism are Chinese traditions. Zen's influence today is largely related to the turn away from militarized Shinto and western interest during the period. The tea ceremony has changed in Japan and it is one of their longest traditions. Geisha were sex workers with a bit of mystique attached. Similarly, samurai were knights or dukes, and any influence they currently have comes from a romanticised version much like knights received. Yes, and I understand the difference between history and the cultural perception of it. The ideas these things represent often come from the Meiji period propaganda.
    - krapp 9y ago
      >and any influence they currently have comes from a romanticised version much like knights received. Much of it fabricated by the samurai themselves long after they had to put down their swords and were relegated to bureaucrats. Even the concept of "bushido[0]" has been argued to be a modern anarchronism, and an intentionally Westernized 20th century fiction based on the Romantic ideals of knights and chivalry. [0]https://www.tofugu.com/japan/bushido/ https://www.tofugu.com/japan/bushido/
0x4f3759df 9y ago
Same can be said for Sweden, Germany, etc.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
krapp 9y ago
Japan's cultural uniqueness is mostly a romantic myth. People act as if the Sakoku period was the norm for Japan and not an exception, but Japan has been just as susceptible to cultural influence as any other country. Much of that "unique culture" was adapted from China, much more of it from the West. That's not in any way calling it illegitimate, a lot of Western countries borrow from one another (or impose cultural change through violence) or crib from the ancient Greeks or Romans. The process of cultural admixture and transformation through trade, religion and violence is the same everywhere. Westerners just seem to ignore the phenomenon as it relates to Japan, I suspect, to maintain some sense of exoticism about the place. Japan would lose its ethnic homogeneity, but to me that's not something worth caring about or mourning the loss of. The culture would change, but culture always changes.
- andreiw 9y ago
  Why would the loss of ethnic identity in Japan not be a bad thing? It would be a loss for diversity.
  - krapp 9y ago
    It would be a gain for diversity in Japan, though. These things are relative.
    - andreiw 9y ago
      Confused. On a planetary scale, it would result in a net loss of diversity. Let's take it to the extreme and claim the Japanese completely die out as an ethnic group. Why would the diversity increase?
- mistermann 9y ago
  > Japan's cultural uniqueness is mostly a romantic myth Have you been there? I can't imagine anyone who has spent any amount of time in Japan would claim there is no cultural uniqueness.
  - 9y ago

akg_67 9y ago

Societies come and go and there is nothing wrong with it that was the response I got from a Japanese elderly man few years ago when we were discussing declining population and future of Japan during my visit to Japan.

nihonde 9y ago
Japan's great skill is adaptation without throwing away all the lessons of the past. It's an extremely delicate balancing act that requires a lot of trust in your neighbors. They've been doing it more or less for at least a thousand years, so there's plenty of room for an optimistic outcome. As usual, the narrative in the west is that Japan is going to fail any minute because it hasn't followed the lead of enlightened nations. Meanwhile, moving from NYC to Japan felt like leaping twenty years into a brighter future that I can only hope others will be able to discover. One thing is for sure: Japan in fifty years won't be the same as Japan today. Rapid and determined change is a constant here.

boomboomsubban 9y ago

Most of the unique elements of Japan's culture come from emulating Western programs. First in a militaristic way as a response to Commodore Perry, then as a result of the post-war occupation.

nopinsight 9y ago
Tea ceremony, Zen buddhism, Geisha, Samurai, ... from emulating Western programs? Have you read about Japanese culture before commenting?
- boomboomsubban 9y ago
  Tea ceremony and Zen Buddhism are Chinese traditions. Zen's influence today is largely related to the turn away from militarized Shinto and western interest during the period. The tea ceremony has changed in Japan and it is one of their longest traditions. Geisha were sex workers with a bit of mystique attached. Similarly, samurai were knights or dukes, and any influence they currently have comes from a romanticised version much like knights received. Yes, and I understand the difference between history and the cultural perception of it. The ideas these things represent often come from the Meiji period propaganda.
  - krapp 9y ago
    >and any influence they currently have comes from a romanticised version much like knights received. Much of it fabricated by the samurai themselves long after they had to put down their swords and were relegated to bureaucrats. Even the concept of "bushido[0]" has been argued to be a modern anarchronism, and an intentionally Westernized 20th century fiction based on the Romantic ideals of knights and chivalry. [0]https://www.tofugu.com/japan/bushido/ https://www.tofugu.com/japan/bushido/

0x4f3759df 9y ago

Same can be said for Sweden, Germany, etc.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

krapp 9y ago

Japan's cultural uniqueness is mostly a romantic myth. People act as if the Sakoku period was the norm for Japan and not an exception, but Japan has been just as susceptible to cultural influence as any other country. Much of that "unique culture" was adapted from China, much more of it from the West. That's not in any way calling it illegitimate, a lot of Western countries borrow from one another (or impose cultural change through violence) or crib from the ancient Greeks or Romans. The process of cultural admixture and transformation through trade, religion and violence is the same everywhere. Westerners just seem to ignore the phenomenon as it relates to Japan, I suspect, to maintain some sense of exoticism about the place. Japan would lose its ethnic homogeneity, but to me that's not something worth caring about or mourning the loss of. The culture would change, but culture always changes.

andreiw 9y ago
Why would the loss of ethnic identity in Japan not be a bad thing? It would be a loss for diversity.
- krapp 9y ago
  It would be a gain for diversity in Japan, though. These things are relative.
  - andreiw 9y ago
    Confused. On a planetary scale, it would result in a net loss of diversity. Let's take it to the extreme and claim the Japanese completely die out as an ethnic group. Why would the diversity increase?
mistermann 9y ago
> Japan's cultural uniqueness is mostly a romantic myth Have you been there? I can't imagine anyone who has spent any amount of time in Japan would claim there is no cultural uniqueness.
- 9y ago