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The accusations can be true, and at the same time it seems possible that the VC didn't take advantage of his "position of power", but genuinely believed the wom

The accusations can be true, and at the same time it seems possible that the VC didn't take advantage of his "position of power", but genuinely believed the women liked him for his looks and personality, not because they needed his money.

irpapakons 9y ago
What makes you think that the women liked him, or that he thought they liked him? They were pitching to him, that's a business transaction. He himself said he leveraged a position of power in exchange for sexual gain, and the linked article mentions groping and harassment with unwanted sexual propositions. Now the question is, what motivates you to seek out a relatively far-fetched justification for this man's possible innocence?
- ddoolin 9y ago
  Perhaps they see a trend of knee-jerk reactions to these kinds of cases where the defendant is presumed guilty before the entire story or evidence is out, or before any sort of due process occurs. I can see why someone would at least try, even weakly, to counteract this type of community pressure. I realize this isn't a legal matter at this point but I'm speaking of the principle(s) on which those features are based. It almost always seems to become a case of "you're either with us or you're against us," so let's try to steer clear of that.
  - mejari 9y ago
    The "defendant" has already admitted to the accusations and stepped down.
    - ddoolin 9y ago
      In this case, I agree in the sense it defeats the point I made above, but for various reasons others may continue to push back on that pressure on principal rather than on the facts of the matter.
- anothercomment 9y ago
  First, his initial statement sounds like that (like he is genuinely shocked that he is part of the problem after all). His updated statement might reflect his realization of the reality of what went down. He looks pretty attractive - maybe there were other cases were the women were also attracted to him. Maybe women also unconsciously flirted to make him more likely to give him money, and he misinterpreted. (No, women would never do that - they would never take advantage of their attractiveness, whereas men will usually take advantage of their "position of power", right?). Pressuring women for sex is not generally that much fun, much better if they are actually into you. I would expect only a low number of psychopaths would enjoy sex with a woman who isn't into it. Therefore it seems more likely he expected them to be into it. It seems pretty normal to develop attraction after a while of intensive talking. What makes you think my "justification" is more far-fetched than your interpretation? Your prejudice that in general, "men are pigs"? In general, people want to feel good - so he may have convinced himself that the women were into him. Edit: well I am not trolling, but HN doesn't want me to comment further (as in, it doesn't allow me to). I think as long as people are not willing to have a honest discussion about the issue, and rather cling to their prejudices, it will never change. But as you wish, I will go away. Enjoy your circle-jerking.
  - dang 9y ago
    Whether you mean to or not you're trolling this thread hard. Please stop now.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    - nickrivadeneira 9y ago
      Just out of curiosity, what about his comment is trolling other than it being a contrarian opinion in this forum?
      - jsmthrowaway 9y ago
        That is sufficient to qualify here, unfortunately.
- khazhoux 9y ago
  > Now the question is, what motivates you to seek out a relatively far-fetched justification for this man's possible innocence? You're implying he supports sexual harassment. He's bringing up a perfectly valid question for discussion: what if the person has an outsized opinion of his attractiveness, and also happens to be a VC -- is that still sexual harassment or just stupidity? Well, the answer is that in this case it's still harassment. And so now there's question, answer, discussion, etc. No need to accuse the poster of being complicit himself in harassment.
biocomputation 9y ago
>> The accusations can be true, and at the same time it seems possible that the VC didn't take advantage of his "position of power", but genuinely believed the women liked him for his looks and personality, not because they needed his money. This type of behavior is about boundaries. Boundaries are about power. His behavior crossed what our culture generally says are the boundaries of a professional situation. That's what makes it inappropriate; it doesn't matter what he believed. It's totally acceptable to meet someone in a social situation and, after a bit of due diligence, it's totally acceptable to ask them out. But that's not what this was.
- anothercomment 9y ago
  People date in the workplace all the time, so I don't think your rules about "professional situations" are generally accepted. I also reject the notion of "position of power" just because he is a VC. Nobody is forced to take his money. You could just as well say the applying women are in a position of power because the VC desperately needs somebody to invest in. I guess a startup should avoid seeking investments where the investor is "in a position of power", anyway. I am also not justifying his behavior, obviously he made mistakes. But I reject the immediate interpretation of "man abusing his power to pressure women into sex". The "boundaries" talk is also not really helpful - at some point, somebody has to make a move. If their estimate of the situation is correct, they are not "crossing boundaries". Otherwise they are crossing boundaries and need to withdraw. Grabbing a knee under the table is of course not a good first move, but we might be missing context.
  - vkou 9y ago
    > I also reject the notion of "position of power" just because he is a VC. Nobody is forced to take his money. Nobody's forced to work for a boss that harasses them, yet making unwanted sexual advances against someone who reports to you is illegal as hell. You have a poor legal understanding of sexual harassment. I strongly suggest that you educate yourself as to what kind of advances and relationships are, and are not appropriate in a professional setting.
  - biocomputation 9y ago

irpapakons 9y ago

What makes you think that the women liked him, or that he thought they liked him? They were pitching to him, that's a business transaction. He himself said he leveraged a position of power in exchange for sexual gain, and the linked article mentions groping and harassment with unwanted sexual propositions. Now the question is, what motivates you to seek out a relatively far-fetched justification for this man's possible innocence?

ddoolin 9y ago
Perhaps they see a trend of knee-jerk reactions to these kinds of cases where the defendant is presumed guilty before the entire story or evidence is out, or before any sort of due process occurs. I can see why someone would at least try, even weakly, to counteract this type of community pressure. I realize this isn't a legal matter at this point but I'm speaking of the principle(s) on which those features are based. It almost always seems to become a case of "you're either with us or you're against us," so let's try to steer clear of that.
- mejari 9y ago
  The "defendant" has already admitted to the accusations and stepped down.
  - ddoolin 9y ago
    In this case, I agree in the sense it defeats the point I made above, but for various reasons others may continue to push back on that pressure on principal rather than on the facts of the matter.
anothercomment 9y ago
First, his initial statement sounds like that (like he is genuinely shocked that he is part of the problem after all). His updated statement might reflect his realization of the reality of what went down. He looks pretty attractive - maybe there were other cases were the women were also attracted to him. Maybe women also unconsciously flirted to make him more likely to give him money, and he misinterpreted. (No, women would never do that - they would never take advantage of their attractiveness, whereas men will usually take advantage of their "position of power", right?). Pressuring women for sex is not generally that much fun, much better if they are actually into you. I would expect only a low number of psychopaths would enjoy sex with a woman who isn't into it. Therefore it seems more likely he expected them to be into it. It seems pretty normal to develop attraction after a while of intensive talking. What makes you think my "justification" is more far-fetched than your interpretation? Your prejudice that in general, "men are pigs"? In general, people want to feel good - so he may have convinced himself that the women were into him. Edit: well I am not trolling, but HN doesn't want me to comment further (as in, it doesn't allow me to). I think as long as people are not willing to have a honest discussion about the issue, and rather cling to their prejudices, it will never change. But as you wish, I will go away. Enjoy your circle-jerking.
- dang 9y ago
  Whether you mean to or not you're trolling this thread hard. Please stop now.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - nickrivadeneira 9y ago
    Just out of curiosity, what about his comment is trolling other than it being a contrarian opinion in this forum?
    - jsmthrowaway 9y ago
      That is sufficient to qualify here, unfortunately.
khazhoux 9y ago
> Now the question is, what motivates you to seek out a relatively far-fetched justification for this man's possible innocence? You're implying he supports sexual harassment. He's bringing up a perfectly valid question for discussion: what if the person has an outsized opinion of his attractiveness, and also happens to be a VC -- is that still sexual harassment or just stupidity? Well, the answer is that in this case it's still harassment. And so now there's question, answer, discussion, etc. No need to accuse the poster of being complicit himself in harassment.

biocomputation 9y ago

>> The accusations can be true, and at the same time it seems possible that the VC didn't take advantage of his "position of power", but genuinely believed the women liked him for his looks and personality, not because they needed his money. This type of behavior is about boundaries. Boundaries are about power. His behavior crossed what our culture generally says are the boundaries of a professional situation. That's what makes it inappropriate; it doesn't matter what he believed. It's totally acceptable to meet someone in a social situation and, after a bit of due diligence, it's totally acceptable to ask them out. But that's not what this was.

anothercomment 9y ago
People date in the workplace all the time, so I don't think your rules about "professional situations" are generally accepted. I also reject the notion of "position of power" just because he is a VC. Nobody is forced to take his money. You could just as well say the applying women are in a position of power because the VC desperately needs somebody to invest in. I guess a startup should avoid seeking investments where the investor is "in a position of power", anyway. I am also not justifying his behavior, obviously he made mistakes. But I reject the immediate interpretation of "man abusing his power to pressure women into sex". The "boundaries" talk is also not really helpful - at some point, somebody has to make a move. If their estimate of the situation is correct, they are not "crossing boundaries". Otherwise they are crossing boundaries and need to withdraw. Grabbing a knee under the table is of course not a good first move, but we might be missing context.
- vkou 9y ago
  > I also reject the notion of "position of power" just because he is a VC. Nobody is forced to take his money. Nobody's forced to work for a boss that harasses them, yet making unwanted sexual advances against someone who reports to you is illegal as hell. You have a poor legal understanding of sexual harassment. I strongly suggest that you educate yourself as to what kind of advances and relationships are, and are not appropriate in a professional setting.
- biocomputation 9y ago