6 ms·

I think that's why he said "in the future", when people might eventually realize that 60FPS is good.

monkeyprojects 9y ago
All 3 hobbit movies where released in the high frame rate format (albeit 48 frames not 60) and the general complaint was that they felt "soap opera"ry due to the way people felt about them. https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarcher/2014/12/16/hate-the-hobbit-in-high-frame-rate-you-just-need-to-see-it-again/#74fb2c875f83 https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarcher/2014/12/16/hate-the-... Is a decent commentary on the issue
- ashark 9y ago
  My complaint about the 48fps (after going in hyped to see this Spiffy New Format) was that everyone looked like they were speed-walking all the time, which was really distracting. It was like a sped-up silent film. Nothing else I've seen in higher framerates has had that problem, though—just The Hobbit.
  - 83457 9y ago
    Was that the frame rate or just hobbits trying to keep up with Gandalf?
  - ClassyJacket 9y ago
    I didn't feel like that at all and it surprises me anyone did. Do you have the same problem when you see people walk in real life?
    - ashark 9y ago
      No, and other high-fps video I've watched (all on much smaller screens, though) hasn't had that effect. I've wondered if the sensation was generated by some combination of 3D + 48fps + viewing angle. Or maybe something to do with the post-processing particular to that film. My wife reported the same effect—people walking with a casual gait but seemingly slightly sped up. Also affected other movements of people and objects, but walking was the most noticeable. The level of distraction it induced was similar to when audio and video are slightly out of sync (though, to be clear, they were not, that's just the kind of constant low-level distraction in caused) We saw the second one in 24fps 2d (we mostly avoid 3D because we rarely care enough about it to pay extra, but it was the only way to see the first one in 48fps) because we both hated the first one's presentation so much, so I don't know whether we'd have experienced it in that one.
      - kalleboo 9y ago
        I had the same impression of "speed-walking", and I saw it in 48fps 2D. It almost felt as if the projection was lagging sometimes and then sped up the film to catch up or something, it was very distracting. I've never had the same impression from TV or home movies which is 50/60 fps.
    - coldtea 9y ago
      It's a widely discussed effect that tons of people have complained about, including famous directors -- so one can hardly be surprised others find it as such too. I for one, don't like that kind of high frame rate motion -- it looks as fake as bad CGI graphics.
  - chiph 9y ago
    I agree. The orc chase across the rock-studded field did not look good. I found it distracting, as the higher frame rate didn't allow my eye/brain to predict their motion.
  - dragonwriter 9y ago
    > My complaint about the 48fps (after going in hyped to see this Spiffy New Format) was that everyone looked like they were speed-walking all the time, I saw all the Hobbit movies in 24fps, and—especially (at least, this is where it first really stuck firmly I in my mind as wrong) in the underground scenes in the first, but also in parts of the other two—had a similar impression. I think it had to do with some other element of cinematography particular to that film series, though it's quite plausible that 48fps exacerbated it.
- MichaelGG 9y ago
  Hence "in the future" when people feel less strongly about that.
- alkonaut 9y ago
  One of the reasons for higher FPS is that it gives artistic freedom to make panning shots etc. High speed panning in 24fps is horrible. Maybe it would be possible to shoot at 60fps or even higher and then dynamically adjust the frame rate to keep the 24fps but smooth some scenes as required?
  - kuschku 9y ago
    The issue is simply motion blur. You can just shoot in 60fps with a shutter as you’d use for 24fps, you get all the feeling, all the motion blur, and none of the chopiness.
    - ahakki 9y ago
      That is simply not possible. While it is possible to render a digital scene at 60fps with any arbitrary shutter speed (e.g. 1/48s the default 180° shutter used in 24fps film productions), it is not possible in real life with a real camera. There are only 48 48ths in each second and you will not be able to start a new frame while you are still capturing the one before it. 60fps limits your availible shutterspeeds to a theoretical maximum of 1/60s or faster. At 24fps you are theoretically limited to 1/24s. In practice there will be a delay between frames so oth numbers will be slightly smaller. Film or video shot at high framerates will necessarily have to be shot at higher shutter speeds than films shot at a lower fps. This has an obvious visual impact on the image.
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
      - kuschku 9y ago
        It’s correct that you can’t directly reach the same result, but all media currently produced, for TV and film, is shot at different shutter speeds than it is shown. As you need to add VFX, basically all content is shot with as fast a shutter as possible, and you add the motion blur back in post. And, as you rightly mentioned, when you do that you can choose any shutter speed in post. Dealing with motion blur when rotoscoping is a bitch, btw.
- baby 9y ago
  They looked amazing to me and I had the reverse feeling afterwards when watching a 24fps movie. For some time they looked slow and stuttering/laggy until I got used to them again. Can't wait for more 48/60 fps movies ^^
matt-attack 9y ago
24fps is a form of impressionism, plain and simple. An engineer claiming that 60fps is better simply because it offers realism, is as naive as claiming that a hi-res photo is obviously better than a Van Gogh because it "has more detail". Can you imagine commenting on an impressionistic painting and remarking, "well it's nice, but if the painter has used finer brush strokes we'd see more detail and it'd be more life-like". The lack of detail is precisely the goal of the artist. Films at 24fps are precisely the same thing. Their lack of detail and realism is precisely what has made the medium so successful over the last 100 years.
- ttoinou 9y ago
  Actually, the comparisons between simple and double framerate are not "true" one factor at a time comparisons because the motion blur is not the same (linked to the camera shutter). I love watching 48/50/60 FPS for psychedelic things or music visualization (and games of course ! like most of gamers) but it should be used carefully and intentionnally by the content director / producer. Some scene/content would require high motion blur and some others scene/content high framerate...
- Glyptodon 9y ago
  It's also a way making me feel like I'm going to have a seizure every time they do a horizontal pan.
  - matt-attack 9y ago
    It's like the old doctor joke, "then don't do that".
- ClassyJacket 9y ago
  Hogwash. Films are 24fps because that's how fast the cameras and projectors run and that's what people are used to. If what you were saying was true it would be by far the most unlikely coincidence that has ever occurred in the universe that almost every movie ever made chose precisely the same impressionist style.
modfodder 9y ago
60fps is not yet good. The Hobbit at 48fps did not look as good as 24fps and Billy Lynn's long Halftime Walk at 120fps 3D was one of the worst looking films I've ever seen. I do believe someone will crack this nut (as Cameron did with 3D). But it's going to take the right project and very creative filmmaking techniques. Personally, I think the first one that works will be a sci-fi in a sterile setting, so the HFR will work with the narrative, not be a distraction.
yladiz 9y ago
I would argue that 60FPS will never be "good" for visual media like film. Video games benefit greatly from 60FPS, but when I'm on YouTube and I see something in 60FPS that has a person in it, I generally turn it off unless I'm really incentivized to watch it, because it looks terrible (the exception is soap operas, which I don't watch).
axaxs 9y ago
I understand 60 fps is more 'realistic', but I hate it. It completely ruins a show/movie for me because I can only think about how weird it looks, without being able to determine exactly why.
trophycase 9y ago
Sorry, hate 60 fps. Everything just looks fake.

All 3 hobbit movies where released in the high frame rate format (albeit 48 frames not 60) and the general complaint was that they felt "soap opera"ry due to the way people felt about them. https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarcher/2014/12/16/hate-the-hobbit-in-high-frame-rate-you-just-need-to-see-it-again/#74fb2c875f83 https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarcher/2014/12/16/hate-the-... Is a decent commentary on the issue

ashark 9y ago
My complaint about the 48fps (after going in hyped to see this Spiffy New Format) was that everyone looked like they were speed-walking all the time, which was really distracting. It was like a sped-up silent film. Nothing else I've seen in higher framerates has had that problem, though—just The Hobbit.
- 83457 9y ago
  Was that the frame rate or just hobbits trying to keep up with Gandalf?
- ClassyJacket 9y ago
  I didn't feel like that at all and it surprises me anyone did. Do you have the same problem when you see people walk in real life?
  - ashark 9y ago
    No, and other high-fps video I've watched (all on much smaller screens, though) hasn't had that effect. I've wondered if the sensation was generated by some combination of 3D + 48fps + viewing angle. Or maybe something to do with the post-processing particular to that film. My wife reported the same effect—people walking with a casual gait but seemingly slightly sped up. Also affected other movements of people and objects, but walking was the most noticeable. The level of distraction it induced was similar to when audio and video are slightly out of sync (though, to be clear, they were not, that's just the kind of constant low-level distraction in caused) We saw the second one in 24fps 2d (we mostly avoid 3D because we rarely care enough about it to pay extra, but it was the only way to see the first one in 48fps) because we both hated the first one's presentation so much, so I don't know whether we'd have experienced it in that one.
    - kalleboo 9y ago
      I had the same impression of "speed-walking", and I saw it in 48fps 2D. It almost felt as if the projection was lagging sometimes and then sped up the film to catch up or something, it was very distracting. I've never had the same impression from TV or home movies which is 50/60 fps.
  - coldtea 9y ago
    It's a widely discussed effect that tons of people have complained about, including famous directors -- so one can hardly be surprised others find it as such too. I for one, don't like that kind of high frame rate motion -- it looks as fake as bad CGI graphics.
- chiph 9y ago
  I agree. The orc chase across the rock-studded field did not look good. I found it distracting, as the higher frame rate didn't allow my eye/brain to predict their motion.
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  > My complaint about the 48fps (after going in hyped to see this Spiffy New Format) was that everyone looked like they were speed-walking all the time, I saw all the Hobbit movies in 24fps, and—especially (at least, this is where it first really stuck firmly I in my mind as wrong) in the underground scenes in the first, but also in parts of the other two—had a similar impression. I think it had to do with some other element of cinematography particular to that film series, though it's quite plausible that 48fps exacerbated it.
MichaelGG 9y ago
Hence "in the future" when people feel less strongly about that.
alkonaut 9y ago
One of the reasons for higher FPS is that it gives artistic freedom to make panning shots etc. High speed panning in 24fps is horrible. Maybe it would be possible to shoot at 60fps or even higher and then dynamically adjust the frame rate to keep the 24fps but smooth some scenes as required?
- kuschku 9y ago
  The issue is simply motion blur. You can just shoot in 60fps with a shutter as you’d use for 24fps, you get all the feeling, all the motion blur, and none of the chopiness.
  - ahakki 9y ago
    That is simply not possible. While it is possible to render a digital scene at 60fps with any arbitrary shutter speed (e.g. 1/48s the default 180° shutter used in 24fps film productions), it is not possible in real life with a real camera. There are only 48 48ths in each second and you will not be able to start a new frame while you are still capturing the one before it. 60fps limits your availible shutterspeeds to a theoretical maximum of 1/60s or faster. At 24fps you are theoretically limited to 1/24s. In practice there will be a delay between frames so oth numbers will be slightly smaller. Film or video shot at high framerates will necessarily have to be shot at higher shutter speeds than films shot at a lower fps. This has an obvious visual impact on the image.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    - kuschku 9y ago
      It’s correct that you can’t directly reach the same result, but all media currently produced, for TV and film, is shot at different shutter speeds than it is shown. As you need to add VFX, basically all content is shot with as fast a shutter as possible, and you add the motion blur back in post. And, as you rightly mentioned, when you do that you can choose any shutter speed in post. Dealing with motion blur when rotoscoping is a bitch, btw.
baby 9y ago
They looked amazing to me and I had the reverse feeling afterwards when watching a 24fps movie. For some time they looked slow and stuttering/laggy until I got used to them again. Can't wait for more 48/60 fps movies ^^

matt-attack 9y ago

24fps is a form of impressionism, plain and simple. An engineer claiming that 60fps is better simply because it offers realism, is as naive as claiming that a hi-res photo is obviously better than a Van Gogh because it "has more detail". Can you imagine commenting on an impressionistic painting and remarking, "well it's nice, but if the painter has used finer brush strokes we'd see more detail and it'd be more life-like". The lack of detail is precisely the goal of the artist. Films at 24fps are precisely the same thing. Their lack of detail and realism is precisely what has made the medium so successful over the last 100 years.

ttoinou 9y ago
Actually, the comparisons between simple and double framerate are not "true" one factor at a time comparisons because the motion blur is not the same (linked to the camera shutter). I love watching 48/50/60 FPS for psychedelic things or music visualization (and games of course ! like most of gamers) but it should be used carefully and intentionnally by the content director / producer. Some scene/content would require high motion blur and some others scene/content high framerate...
Glyptodon 9y ago
It's also a way making me feel like I'm going to have a seizure every time they do a horizontal pan.
- matt-attack 9y ago
  It's like the old doctor joke, "then don't do that".
ClassyJacket 9y ago
Hogwash. Films are 24fps because that's how fast the cameras and projectors run and that's what people are used to. If what you were saying was true it would be by far the most unlikely coincidence that has ever occurred in the universe that almost every movie ever made chose precisely the same impressionist style.

modfodder 9y ago

60fps is not yet good. The Hobbit at 48fps did not look as good as 24fps and Billy Lynn's long Halftime Walk at 120fps 3D was one of the worst looking films I've ever seen. I do believe someone will crack this nut (as Cameron did with 3D). But it's going to take the right project and very creative filmmaking techniques. Personally, I think the first one that works will be a sci-fi in a sterile setting, so the HFR will work with the narrative, not be a distraction.

yladiz 9y ago

I would argue that 60FPS will never be "good" for visual media like film. Video games benefit greatly from 60FPS, but when I'm on YouTube and I see something in 60FPS that has a person in it, I generally turn it off unless I'm really incentivized to watch it, because it looks terrible (the exception is soap operas, which I don't watch).

axaxs 9y ago

I understand 60 fps is more 'realistic', but I hate it. It completely ruins a show/movie for me because I can only think about how weird it looks, without being able to determine exactly why.

trophycase 9y ago

Sorry, hate 60 fps. Everything just looks fake.