8 ms·

Jonathan Oxer Needs a Job

34 points by hownottowrite 9y ago

pinewurst 9y ago
Another data point on the lightyears-wide gap between people who do things and the whiteboard-centric, "top schools required" tech world. Speaking as another bootstrap engineer, I eventually had to make a turn into marketing and sales. Compared with engineering organizations, those are far more pragmatic about their hires, especially for candidates with proven abilities to communicate well. It is sad to step away from being a maker, but it does pay the bills and coworkers are at least decent people.
- zeamaize 9y ago
  Can you offer proof of said credentials? I've heard of him. That's his credential. His work speaks for itself. Have I heard of you? A top school isn't a guarantee of success, but it's a credential that might mean something more than simply your ow personal self opinion.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
vowelless 9y ago
I remember him from this video, where he describes how his product "Freetronics Experimenters Kit for Arduino" was copied by another company. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SW8K9D9u5aI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SW8K9D9u5aI Seems like a pretty standup guy who has done a lot of cool stuff!
jey 9y ago
> 30 seconds looking at the hiring requirements immediately disqualifies me. I’d never even make it past the filters to the first interview. Sounds like he's taking those requirements too seriously. It's true that going through a HR department would likely get him filtered out, but there's plenty of smaller companies and such where hiring managers are the ones looking at the resume. They can look past the fact that there's no "education" section and instead just a long track record of really delivering value.
- transitorykris 9y ago
  Definitely taking them too seriously. As someone who's been on the inside of several big companies the hiring managers often have a ton of power to get the people they want in. If his friends are there, that's an excellent starting point. Applying to a big company in this case is a worthwhile experiment, just don't go through the front door without the referral.
- oddlyaromatic 9y ago
  Agreed that this sentence is silly and represents a mistake that far too many people make.
  - drivingmenuts 9y ago
    It's not silly if too many people are repeating the mistake. I'm hunting desperately for a job and when I see requirements, I assume those are hard requirements, not soft. Nice-to-haves, etc., can be soft requirements and I'll keep those in mind.
    - oddlyaromatic 9y ago
      You need to assume that all requirements are basically soft if you can persuade somebody that you can fill the role. Especially if you can explicitly match your real world skills and experience to compensating for specific requirements. One requirement that I think is especially useless is "n years experience"... It means so little. I treat the requirements as conversation starters, not deal breakers. Disclaimer: I work in social services, not tech, and I've hired people mostly based on their performance in actual interviews and how they treat the folks they'll work with. If you think you are a great fit and can do the work, go sell it. Can't hurt.
- kafkaesq 9y ago
  Sounds like he's taking those requirements too seriously. "Taking them at face value" was how I read it. And if that's "taking things to seriously", well then -- that outlines a shortcoming on the company's side.
xfer 9y ago
I would have hard time believing a respectable workplace rejecting his resume, if he applied to one.
- zeamaize 9y ago
  I wouldn't. Most workplaces automate the first few passes because of how much resume spam they get hit with. Now I'd have a hard time imagining a good workplace rejecting him if an actual human saw his resume.
  - andreyf 9y ago
    > I'd have a hard time imagining a good workplace rejecting him if an actual human saw his resume. Then you haven't ever worked with someone like this. All the resume says to me is "internally motivated engineer with resources". That doesn't mean he will work well on any of your teams or on the projects you need done.
- whatever_dude 9y ago
  I can see places rejecting him because he's TOO qualified and that he won't stick around for boring work.
- andreyf 9y ago
  Except most workplaces don't need any of that experience, and certainly not the "I am so great" attitude. Note how none of his projects involve "collaborated a team people to get done something bigger than what anyone could do by themselves".
GuiA 9y ago
This is a good cautionary tale for younger developers. Know how to market yourself, or you'll end up throwing yourself a public pity party to try to get a job (sorry for being harsh, but that's what a post full of impressive achievements followed by "I'm broke and unemployed at 46, and not qualified for anything" is). This guy has probably more cumulative knowledge and experience than 99% of the developers at any famous large company or startup. But there are tens of thousands of engineers nowhere near as good as he is making a quarter million, half million dollars a year or more, while he's posting about being broke. A common objection to this is that you have to pick between pleasing recruiters or pursuing your passion. But that's a false dichotomy! François Chollet, John Carmack, or Yves Lecun to name a few are the best in the world at their specific niche, and they're not in that situation - as are many others with slightly less impressive resumes than they have. So clearly it can be done. Edit: surprised to be so quickly downvoted. You'd think that for a site where raising millions of dollars is glorified every day, HNers would consider being a broke technical genius a bug, not a feature. Either this is the very first thing the guy did when looking for a job, in which case I find it very odd (can you imagine if John Carmack posted something about how he needs a job but he's "not qualified for anything"?); or he's posting this after many emails sent, interviews passed, coffee had, etc., in which case this only adds to my point.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- mynameishere 9y ago
  public pity party It's actually him shamelessly humblebragging. I'm not sure why it was posted.
- weberc2 9y ago
  I thought it was pretty brilliant advertising.
  - GuiA 9y ago
    Yeah, but do you have a job to offer him? If not, you're not the target audience.
api_or_ipa 9y ago
This probably is one of the best ways for someone of his notoriety to get connected to his next gig. I'm very confident he could generate a number of excellent leads just by talking around to his local tech companies. It's the people who don't have decades of success behind them who languish between jobs because they don't have a degree or $BIG_BUSINESS on their resume.
harry8 9y ago
I've met Jon and like him. This is an "I'm a goddamn superstar and I'm advertising myself as such." Post. This is not actually about inability to get a job or university requirements - that's some window dressing on the (justified) boast. This is about Jon getting a superstar's job. And why not? He probably deserves it and then some. Don't let anyone undersell you the importance of marketing.
voltagex_ 9y ago
I wonder if something happened to Freetronics, or if it was never particularly profitable at all.
- jesseschalken 9y ago
  Just doesn't make enough money (according to a comment of his on that post).

34 points by hownottowrite 9y ago

Another data point on the lightyears-wide gap between people who do things and the whiteboard-centric, "top schools required" tech world. Speaking as another bootstrap engineer, I eventually had to make a turn into marketing and sales. Compared with engineering organizations, those are far more pragmatic about their hires, especially for candidates with proven abilities to communicate well. It is sad to step away from being a maker, but it does pay the bills and coworkers are at least decent people.

zeamaize 9y ago
Can you offer proof of said credentials? I've heard of him. That's his credential. His work speaks for itself. Have I heard of you? A top school isn't a guarantee of success, but it's a credential that might mean something more than simply your ow personal self opinion.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

vowelless 9y ago

I remember him from this video, where he describes how his product "Freetronics Experimenters Kit for Arduino" was copied by another company. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SW8K9D9u5aI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SW8K9D9u5aI Seems like a pretty standup guy who has done a lot of cool stuff!

jey 9y ago

> 30 seconds looking at the hiring requirements immediately disqualifies me. I’d never even make it past the filters to the first interview. Sounds like he's taking those requirements too seriously. It's true that going through a HR department would likely get him filtered out, but there's plenty of smaller companies and such where hiring managers are the ones looking at the resume. They can look past the fact that there's no "education" section and instead just a long track record of really delivering value.

transitorykris 9y ago
Definitely taking them too seriously. As someone who's been on the inside of several big companies the hiring managers often have a ton of power to get the people they want in. If his friends are there, that's an excellent starting point. Applying to a big company in this case is a worthwhile experiment, just don't go through the front door without the referral.
oddlyaromatic 9y ago
Agreed that this sentence is silly and represents a mistake that far too many people make.
- drivingmenuts 9y ago
  It's not silly if too many people are repeating the mistake. I'm hunting desperately for a job and when I see requirements, I assume those are hard requirements, not soft. Nice-to-haves, etc., can be soft requirements and I'll keep those in mind.
  - oddlyaromatic 9y ago
    You need to assume that all requirements are basically soft if you can persuade somebody that you can fill the role. Especially if you can explicitly match your real world skills and experience to compensating for specific requirements. One requirement that I think is especially useless is "n years experience"... It means so little. I treat the requirements as conversation starters, not deal breakers. Disclaimer: I work in social services, not tech, and I've hired people mostly based on their performance in actual interviews and how they treat the folks they'll work with. If you think you are a great fit and can do the work, go sell it. Can't hurt.
kafkaesq 9y ago
Sounds like he's taking those requirements too seriously. "Taking them at face value" was how I read it. And if that's "taking things to seriously", well then -- that outlines a shortcoming on the company's side.

xfer 9y ago

I would have hard time believing a respectable workplace rejecting his resume, if he applied to one.

zeamaize 9y ago
I wouldn't. Most workplaces automate the first few passes because of how much resume spam they get hit with. Now I'd have a hard time imagining a good workplace rejecting him if an actual human saw his resume.
- andreyf 9y ago
  > I'd have a hard time imagining a good workplace rejecting him if an actual human saw his resume. Then you haven't ever worked with someone like this. All the resume says to me is "internally motivated engineer with resources". That doesn't mean he will work well on any of your teams or on the projects you need done.
whatever_dude 9y ago
I can see places rejecting him because he's TOO qualified and that he won't stick around for boring work.
andreyf 9y ago
Except most workplaces don't need any of that experience, and certainly not the "I am so great" attitude. Note how none of his projects involve "collaborated a team people to get done something bigger than what anyone could do by themselves".

GuiA 9y ago

This is a good cautionary tale for younger developers. Know how to market yourself, or you'll end up throwing yourself a public pity party to try to get a job (sorry for being harsh, but that's what a post full of impressive achievements followed by "I'm broke and unemployed at 46, and not qualified for anything" is). This guy has probably more cumulative knowledge and experience than 99% of the developers at any famous large company or startup. But there are tens of thousands of engineers nowhere near as good as he is making a quarter million, half million dollars a year or more, while he's posting about being broke. A common objection to this is that you have to pick between pleasing recruiters or pursuing your passion. But that's a false dichotomy! François Chollet, John Carmack, or Yves Lecun to name a few are the best in the world at their specific niche, and they're not in that situation - as are many others with slightly less impressive resumes than they have. So clearly it can be done. Edit: surprised to be so quickly downvoted. You'd think that for a site where raising millions of dollars is glorified every day, HNers would consider being a broke technical genius a bug, not a feature. Either this is the very first thing the guy did when looking for a job, in which case I find it very odd (can you imagine if John Carmack posted something about how he needs a job but he's "not qualified for anything"?); or he's posting this after many emails sent, interviews passed, coffee had, etc., in which case this only adds to my point.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
mynameishere 9y ago
public pity party It's actually him shamelessly humblebragging. I'm not sure why it was posted.
weberc2 9y ago
I thought it was pretty brilliant advertising.
- GuiA 9y ago
  Yeah, but do you have a job to offer him? If not, you're not the target audience.

api_or_ipa 9y ago

This probably is one of the best ways for someone of his notoriety to get connected to his next gig. I'm very confident he could generate a number of excellent leads just by talking around to his local tech companies. It's the people who don't have decades of success behind them who languish between jobs because they don't have a degree or $BIG_BUSINESS on their resume.

harry8 9y ago

I've met Jon and like him. This is an "I'm a goddamn superstar and I'm advertising myself as such." Post. This is not actually about inability to get a job or university requirements - that's some window dressing on the (justified) boast. This is about Jon getting a superstar's job. And why not? He probably deserves it and then some. Don't let anyone undersell you the importance of marketing.

voltagex_ 9y ago

I wonder if something happened to Freetronics, or if it was never particularly profitable at all.

jesseschalken 9y ago
Just doesn't make enough money (according to a comment of his on that post).