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Twitch nabs exclusive streaming deal with Blizzard for e-sports events

230 points by janober 9y ago

detaro 9y ago
Interesting this is now news, where a few years ago it would have been almost obvious that these events would be on Twitch, where else could they be? (not quite, there were competitors, but more specialized)
- nemothekid 9y ago
  Blizzard owns MLG, which has its own streaming platform MLG.tv. There's also YouTube Gaming which also streaming Overwatch's World Cup last year.
- hkmurakami 9y ago
  In the west, YouTube gaming. In Korea, AfreecaTV. In Japan, Nicovideo I think.
  - wingerlang 9y ago
    > YouTube gaming Doubtful. Where is Twitch if not in the west?
  - satsuma 9y ago
    China has DouyuTV as well as a few others I'm no doubt forgetting
- Whatarethese 9y ago
  Twitter would be a big one now days.
- ipsum2 9y ago
  Heroes of the Storm (a Blizzard game) and Facebook signed an exclusive contract for one of their competitions: http://mashable.com/2017/01/26/facebook-heroes-of-the-dorm/ http://mashable.com/2017/01/26/facebook-heroes-of-the-dorm/. Twitch's deal here is important in the streaming landscape, with Facebook, Youtube, Amazon, Netflix, Hulu and traditional cable companies trying to get valuable content for their platform.
  - georgemcbay 9y ago
    Twitch is owned by Amazon. Your post doesn't contradict that, but it seems somewhat important context for anyone who isn't aware since the post mentions both Twitch and Amazon but not the link between the two.
    - ipsum2 9y ago
      The first line of the linked article says: "Twitch, the popular game-streaming site owned by Amazon, just inked a deal with one of the most popular game developers to broadcast a host of game tournaments exclusively on the service."
  - saithir 9y ago
    > Heroes of the Storm (a Blizzard game) and Facebook signed an exclusive contract for one of their competitions: http://mashable.com/2017/01/26/facebook-heroes-of-the-dorm/ http://mashable.com/2017/01/26/facebook-heroes-of-the-dorm/. And that stream was an unwatchable crap with crap video quality, skipping issues and IIRC awfully low views. Even now if you find a VOD of that stream, and check HD, it's completely shit video quality makes it unwatchable, since you can't even distinguish the icons on the interface from one another. No surprise about this Twitch deal.
blitmap 9y ago
I'm just tired of bundling deals together. I saw an ad online today saying if you're a Twitch Premium user you will get a gold loot box in Overwatch. I just want to enjoy Overwatch, and it feels like those loot boxes almost never deal out good loot anymore. I do not look forward to earning loot boxes.
- adrr 9y ago
  Loot boxes don't effect gameplay.
  - bduerst 9y ago
    If loot boxes don't have value then why are they being used as a carrot?
    - secabeen 9y ago
      They have social and visual value, but not gameplay value.
      - bduerst 9y ago
        That's my point. Saying they're not affecting gameplay doesn't mean much when they have other value to players.
        atom-morgan 9y ago
        Doesn't mean much other than the fact that Blizzard implemented a feature that doesn't ruin the integrity of the game.
        bduerst 9y ago
        Blitmap seems to think it means something. Again "integrity" or "mechanics" of gameplay aren't the only value here.
    - 9y ago
falcolas 9y ago
As noted in the article, Twitch is owned by Amazon now, so they have a lot of money and other leverage to play with. It's not a knock against Twitch, but it's also not as much of a coup as the headline and article suggest.
l33r 9y ago
It's more like Amazon* nabs exclusive streaming deal with Blizzard.
james4k 9y ago
A little surprising given that Blizzard owns MLG.tv, but maybe there are some more interesting details.
- kevhsu 9y ago
  Not surprising in light of the fact that mlg.tv has not been a serious competitor to twitch for ages.
nawgszy 9y ago
I think it's very important for Twitch to do this, and I think they need to do it more, to be honest. Let me tell you a story. I am a big Counter-Strike: Global Offensive fan. I play a bit, but I vastly prefer to watch professional play. I got into the game a year ago or so, and that seemed to be a glorious time to spectate the game. Streams were virtually exclusively on Twitch, and every weekend it felt like there was a ($100k+ prize pool) tournament, and every week there were high quality pick-up/practice games between professional players being streamed. Of course (who can blame them?), YouTube Gaming wanted a piece of this pie. They cut some exclusive deals with a couple online leagues and tournament organizer, bringing a sizable chunk of the content with them to YouTube Gaming. However, the users DID NOT follow (and UX over on YT can be almost entirely blamed), and the ensuing fracturing of the community has seen CS:GO drop from consistently top 5 in Twitch games to regularly outside the top 10. The thing is, though, the missing viewership mostly didn't migrate to YouTube, instead just deciding to not watch at all. The appeal behind Twitch and CS:GO was that there was basically non-stop _very high_ quality content being streamed, and you didn't need to put in a single ounce of effort to find it. YouTube very much does not have that same user flow down, at all. And now (even though the position isn't particularly degraded), owing to the relative difficulty of finding tournaments on YouTube OR Twitch, I find myself watching a lot less. So goes the general vibe of the community. Sure, woe is us, 2 whole sources? But consider this: YouTube's discoverability is horrible, its UI plagued with reruns emblazoned with a red "LIVE NOW" that screams for your attention at first and later leaves you unwilling to trust any visuals on the site; Twitch, on the other hand, with its inability to pause / rewind / stream a smooth 1080p60 (hell, even 720p60 stutters 10x as much as YouTube's) leaves you comparatively upset about video quality when you watch there. So I guess my point is that Twitch clearly loses in the tech department to YouTube, but its benefits (more entertaining chat, better discoverability and UI/UX) are more than enough to make you a dedicated user when exclusivity is part of that package. It'll be interesting to see which side can overcome its issues to gain the advantage. Note: edits for readability have occurred over the 5 minutes following the posting of this comment
- emmett 9y ago
  We care a lot about stream quality at Twitch. Can I ask where you're watching from that you get so many stutters? That's a key metric we measure ("buffer empties per hour"), so I know for a fact it's not high everywhere.
xfalcox 9y ago
This sucks for the consumer. During DotA's The International I can choose between many services (in-game, Steam, Youtube, Twitch) and pick the one which works better for me.
- ekianjo 9y ago
  yup. Exclusive deals are just like exclusive games for consoles. It only feels good for the first party publisher and the fanboys but its bad for pretty much everyone else.
  - jakebasile 9y ago
    I wish more people were able to see this. Any exclusive that isn't due to actual limitations and is solely being done because someone paid for it is harmful to consumers. The console manufacturers do it to prop up their consoles, Netflix et al. do it to prop up their services. In this case, Twitch is doing it to ensure their dominance in streaming. There are exclusives for the Nintendo consoles that depend on their wacky hardware. There are more PC exclusives than all the other systems combined for many reasons: no cost to release, no cost to update, no online service costs, vastly superior compute power, unrestricted machine access, and special peripheral support (e.g. HOTAS for flight sims) which combines to enable lots of smaller, niche games to come out on PC. Paid exclusives suck. They exist purely to make companies happy because it forces people to buy what they don't already have or need and it makes the people who construct their identity around a brand happy because they have something other people cannot have.
    - zanny 9y ago
      > There are exclusives for the Nintendo consoles that depend on their wacky hardware. Not really. Actually, not at all. It is a terrible excuse for Nintendo, who I think is one of the worst offenders in the gaming space at using exclusivity to drive hardware sales and lock in. The Wii Mote, for example, has been fully supported on PCs since about 2008 - a year after it came out. And there were probably beta drivers dating back to its release. It uses bluetooth, after all, its just an HID device. You can easily ship a game for PC that requires that controller. Since their Wii U pad was just a dedicated computer that communicated over wifi (proprietary, I think?) with the base console, that kind of logic code can be ported anywhere. It just requires a server that converts the pads touch events and controls into a local touchscreen + joypad with haptics and gyros. Every major OS supports these, and has since well before the Wii U came out. And don't get me started on the Switch. It is just an Android tablet (and the worst part is Nintendo stopped Nvidia from releasing a much needed Shield Tablet 2 because it would have just been a literal Switch without the controller parts included for half the price in exchange for using their SoC) with attachable joystick pieces. Again, every OS can support this input style, and any game can require it. Nintendo has invested in manufacturing and distributing really shitty computers (since the Gamecube every Nintendo console has been underpowered compared to the average PC and was way behind its contemporary consoles) and writing a giant proprietary freedom-hating set top OS for them that uses proprietary APIs that are non-portable for developers to target for what I believe no reason than power hunger. There isn't even a profit motive in it - they make a tiny amount of money per console sold, nobody ships games on their systems anymore so they aren't getting any licensing money, and the vast majority of their income is from first party sales. But their first party titles only ever support their shitty hardware. It means they are dramatically reducing their potential audience of $60 pure profit releases per box (and their games have ravenous fans, even those that cannot afford a redundant $300 piece of junk) to move console units that don't make any money. The only reason to do that is because that is what you have always done. So you keep doing it, because you are addicted to having that level of control, even when it doesn't have a business benefit. It is pretty stupid.
niftich 9y ago
In the past 12 months Blizzard has integrated Facebook login [1], Facebook Live streaming [2], and Facebook friend lists [3] into their revamped Blizzard App (previously known as the Battle.net Launcher). The live streaming functionality was particularly a shot across the bow [4][5] against someone like Twitch/Curse, so it's interesting to see that Amazon has now responded and forged this new deal with Blizzard. I'm curious if it's just about the content (driving viewers to the platform) or if there's more in the works between these two. Warning, slow links: [1] https://venturebeat.com/2016/06/06/facebook-to-provide-login-and-live-video-for-blizzards-overwatch-game/ https://venturebeat.com/2016/06/06/facebook-to-provide-login... [2] http://www.wowhead.com/news=255393/blizzard-and-facebook-streaming-and-login http://www.wowhead.com/news=255393/blizzard-and-facebook-str... [3] http://www.wowhead.com/news=260084/battle-net-and-facebook-friends-integration http://www.wowhead.com/news=260084/battle-net-and-facebook-f... [4] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12371440 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12371440 [5] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12381447 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12381447
- ajacksified 9y ago
  When they announced integrated streaming, I was excited- until I saw I had to link Facebook, which was a huge disappointment. I use Facebook for sharing pictures of my kids and family stuff, and I have no interest in either sharing my stream with my family or sharing my family with anybody I game with (random people I meet online.) Facebook, at least for me, is far too personal to use as a broadcasting platform, and it seemed like a weird choice that limits potential users to pro teams rather than casual streamers.
- j_s 9y ago
  Also noticed they are headlining Destiny 2 (from Activision+Bungie) in the Blizzard App store, and that it will be launched from the Blizzard App ("Blizzard Desktop app and registration required to play")
  - ihuman 9y ago
    Activision and Blizzard are both owned by Activision Blizzard, so by putting Destiny 2 in Battle.net they can keep the share Valve would take for selling it on steam.
6stringmerc 9y ago
Wait, 320 Million viewers? That has to be a historical aggregate of sorts. What kind of source for that claim exists? Oh, let's check the link! Hmm, okay, it goes to an article that cites another source. The BBC? Reputable source, so here's the deal: >Esports generated $493m (£400m) in revenue in 2016, with a global audience of about 320 million people. So yeah, that's an aggregate of all of 2016. Let's compare it to the highest watched Super Bowl on record - Broncos vs. Seahawks: 111 million US viewers. In ONE DAY. Yes I understand that I'm skewing pretty hard, but even the worst Super Bowl viewing in modern times pulled 39 million or so. My point is that yeah, eSports looks like it has some numbers, but I work in a high rise building full of financially successful people that are desired marketing targets and I have little doubt barely 0.01% of them watch eSports. Or, if I want to be a real jackass about it, I could just call eSports the equivalent of K-Pop. The numbers are there to show it's popular, sure. It's just not the target market for millions of dollars of advertising budget for US eyes.
- fnovd 9y ago
  Twitch : EPSN :: Gamers : Jocks It's a new(ish) platform whose demographic (people who enjoy video games) is growing larger every year. Today's 40 and 50 year olds don't play nearly as many games as the next decade's will. Whether or not they can wrangle that into marketing $$$ is another story.
- djloche 9y ago
  To put "eSports" into perspective, let's take League's 2016 World Championship in the context of the other world championships. 2016 Basketball Worlds Final Game: 31M viewers 2016 Baseball Worlds Final Game: 40M viewers 2016 League of Legends Worlds Final: 43M viewers So, okay. eSports isn't quite at the American Football level. But, it right in line with the other top broadcast sports
- lovehashbrowns 9y ago
  The demographic that Twitch is after isn't just a niche curiosity. That is the same demographic that spent an estimated 1.6 billion dollars in 2016 on League of Legends, one of the many successful games that are featured on Twitch. Another estimated 18 million dollars a month in Dota 2. One of the most successful streamers on Twitch reportedly pulls in 2 million dollars a year. It's not on the level of the NFL's 13+ billion dollars a year, but it's certainly nothing to laugh at. Keep in mind that Amazon purchased Twitch for almost 1 billion dollars.
gigatexal 9y ago
Sweet! I’m more likely to watch eSports than the NFL or the NBA
randomdrake 9y ago
Twitch has some very serious moderation challenges ahead of them, that they haven't proven they're able to solve, before I can be convinced this is a good thing. Online communities rely on good moderators and moderation tools to be able to thrive. I am a big Hearthstone fan so I enjoy watching the competitions sometimes. It's been consistently the highest viewed Blizzard game on Twitch for a long time now so it's important to bring up in this discussion. PlayHearthstone[1] is the official channel for Hearthstone events so you would think it would be representative of how Blizzard wants to operate in the competitive space. Whether it is due to technology, lack of oversight, or simply not caring, Twitch chat is notoriously atrocious; rampant with trolling, vitriol, spamming, and terrible behavior. To make things worse, there's absolutely no consistency with how events are moderated, if they are at all. For one event, members are banned for simply asking questions, or providing constructive criticism to the casting of the event with mods creating trigger phrases or words that lead to users getting banned immediately without knowing why. For other events, the chatters are allowed to use all manner of racial, sexual, demeaning, and outright threatening and horrific text towards the casters, the events, and the participants. It's disgusting to watch, completely unprofessional, and something that has been brought up multiple times by the community with no concrete resolution. Either Blizzard finds it acceptable, Twitch finds it acceptable, or they haven't figured out how to do well in moderating live chats with thousands of people. Given their track record, I'm hesitant to be excited about the exclusivity. [1] - https://www.twitch.tv/playhearthstone https://www.twitch.tv/playhearthstone
- jsnk 9y ago
  Please no, I love Twitch chat the way it is. If streamers want to moderate chat some way, let them do it, but I really hope Twitch doesn't enforce one-size fits all topdown moderation rule. That's how you kill vibrant communities and subcultures who are the top 10% who make Twitch fun, and streams' finances sound. If you find memes and jokes crude for some stream, go to some other and support their streams. So many games and communities have been killed by topdown approach to content moderation.
  - WaxProlix 9y ago
    They need to provide tooling to enable moderation, not necessarily enforce it. Forsen's chat isn't going to change, you will still get your gachi on, but official tourneys need a way to stop the insane racism. Look at TerrenceM's comments about how he hoped his parents didn't see the chat while they were rooting for their son in his first competition - it shouldn't be that way, and Twitch (and Blizz/Playheartstone) is failing streamers and competitors by not providing anything in this area.
sergiotapia 9y ago
That's a shame, I like Mixer so much more than Twitch. Twitch at this point feels like MySpace, with all the custom bullshit sprinkled around. Mixer is nicer and clean, and f-a-s-t. I'm waiting for the Mixer apple tv app and I'll be all set.
diziet 9y ago
Blizzard e-sport events were already streamed primarily on Twitch.
spicytunacone 9y ago
Wonder if Twitch somehow got a hold on major Brood War events, namely the Afreeca Starleague, seeing as how it was already getting restreamed in English on Twitch. With the HD remaster I imagine Blizzard would want to take back more control and hold more events of their own, too. On that note, I still don't know what version/patch the competitive community wants to use going forward, either.
LandoCalrissian 9y ago
Can I just say that the Justin.TV to Twich pivot was one of the best examples of pivoting to your market that I have ever seen?
- bballer 9y ago
  Agreed. I loved listening to the startup school radio episode about how they got started and how they pivoted. https://blog.ycombinator.com/startup-school-radio-episode-2-how-justin-dot-tv-became-twitch/ https://blog.ycombinator.com/startup-school-radio-episode-2-...
eterm 9y ago
Twitch has destroyed the way I consume twitch. I used to stick twitch on my TV while eating dinner or for big events such as csgo majors or LCS finals. But as of about a month ago twitch now blocks chromecast. I can no longer watch twitch on my TV and I hate that fact. And no I'm not going to buy a 'fire stick', I don't like being manipulated into buying something when it previously worked well and has been deliberately downgraded.
- jrimbault 9y ago
  WTF Amazon ? I also did that, but only in summer (for architectural reasons). I'm already pissed I won't be able to do that this summer. Thank you for the heads up.
- Aissen 9y ago
  I only watch Twitch on Android TV (with their awful that decides to log you off periodically), but seriously, WTF Twitch ? Why block Chromecast ? BTW, did you try any technical workaround?
  - MachinShinn- 9y ago
    TIL there are hacker news readers who use such awful garbage as chromecast and Android TV...
    - Aissen 9y ago
      Not all HN readers/commenters are in the Bay Area ;-)
  - raffleslodge 9y ago
    My chromecast works perfectly.
- ErikHuisman 9y ago
  Really? https://help.twitch.tv/customer/portal/articles/1691460-chromecast-support https://help.twitch.tv/customer/portal/articles/1691460-chro...
Aissen 9y ago
Twitch is nice, but my biggest grief is that it's not YouTube. YouTube is literally everywhere, on every TV, set-top-box, cast device, etc. Twitch is not. Which make it more complicated to watch streams and vods/replays. It's the same issue Netflix competitors have. They need to get everywhere fast.
ArlenBales 9y ago
Exclusive streaming deals are bad. E3 proved that Twitch has trouble with high viewer counts. YouTube had higher viewer counts on just about all major conferences at E3 and had no network problems.

230 points by janober 9y ago

Interesting this is now news, where a few years ago it would have been almost obvious that these events would be on Twitch, where else could they be? (not quite, there were competitors, but more specialized)

nemothekid 9y ago
Blizzard owns MLG, which has its own streaming platform MLG.tv. There's also YouTube Gaming which also streaming Overwatch's World Cup last year.
hkmurakami 9y ago
In the west, YouTube gaming. In Korea, AfreecaTV. In Japan, Nicovideo I think.
- wingerlang 9y ago
  > YouTube gaming Doubtful. Where is Twitch if not in the west?
- satsuma 9y ago
  China has DouyuTV as well as a few others I'm no doubt forgetting
Whatarethese 9y ago
Twitter would be a big one now days.
ipsum2 9y ago
Heroes of the Storm (a Blizzard game) and Facebook signed an exclusive contract for one of their competitions: http://mashable.com/2017/01/26/facebook-heroes-of-the-dorm/ http://mashable.com/2017/01/26/facebook-heroes-of-the-dorm/. Twitch's deal here is important in the streaming landscape, with Facebook, Youtube, Amazon, Netflix, Hulu and traditional cable companies trying to get valuable content for their platform.
- georgemcbay 9y ago
  Twitch is owned by Amazon. Your post doesn't contradict that, but it seems somewhat important context for anyone who isn't aware since the post mentions both Twitch and Amazon but not the link between the two.
  - ipsum2 9y ago
    The first line of the linked article says: "Twitch, the popular game-streaming site owned by Amazon, just inked a deal with one of the most popular game developers to broadcast a host of game tournaments exclusively on the service."
- saithir 9y ago
  > Heroes of the Storm (a Blizzard game) and Facebook signed an exclusive contract for one of their competitions: http://mashable.com/2017/01/26/facebook-heroes-of-the-dorm/ http://mashable.com/2017/01/26/facebook-heroes-of-the-dorm/. And that stream was an unwatchable crap with crap video quality, skipping issues and IIRC awfully low views. Even now if you find a VOD of that stream, and check HD, it's completely shit video quality makes it unwatchable, since you can't even distinguish the icons on the interface from one another. No surprise about this Twitch deal.

blitmap 9y ago

I'm just tired of bundling deals together. I saw an ad online today saying if you're a Twitch Premium user you will get a gold loot box in Overwatch. I just want to enjoy Overwatch, and it feels like those loot boxes almost never deal out good loot anymore. I do not look forward to earning loot boxes.

adrr 9y ago
Loot boxes don't effect gameplay.
- bduerst 9y ago
  If loot boxes don't have value then why are they being used as a carrot?
  - secabeen 9y ago
    They have social and visual value, but not gameplay value.
    - bduerst 9y ago
      That's my point. Saying they're not affecting gameplay doesn't mean much when they have other value to players.
      - atom-morgan 9y ago
        Doesn't mean much other than the fact that Blizzard implemented a feature that doesn't ruin the integrity of the game.
        bduerst 9y ago
        Blitmap seems to think it means something. Again "integrity" or "mechanics" of gameplay aren't the only value here.
  - 9y ago

falcolas 9y ago

As noted in the article, Twitch is owned by Amazon now, so they have a lot of money and other leverage to play with. It's not a knock against Twitch, but it's also not as much of a coup as the headline and article suggest.

l33r 9y ago

It's more like Amazon* nabs exclusive streaming deal with Blizzard.

james4k 9y ago

A little surprising given that Blizzard owns MLG.tv, but maybe there are some more interesting details.

kevhsu 9y ago
Not surprising in light of the fact that mlg.tv has not been a serious competitor to twitch for ages.

nawgszy 9y ago

I think it's very important for Twitch to do this, and I think they need to do it more, to be honest. Let me tell you a story. I am a big Counter-Strike: Global Offensive fan. I play a bit, but I vastly prefer to watch professional play. I got into the game a year ago or so, and that seemed to be a glorious time to spectate the game. Streams were virtually exclusively on Twitch, and every weekend it felt like there was a ($100k+ prize pool) tournament, and every week there were high quality pick-up/practice games between professional players being streamed. Of course (who can blame them?), YouTube Gaming wanted a piece of this pie. They cut some exclusive deals with a couple online leagues and tournament organizer, bringing a sizable chunk of the content with them to YouTube Gaming. However, the users DID NOT follow (and UX over on YT can be almost entirely blamed), and the ensuing fracturing of the community has seen CS:GO drop from consistently top 5 in Twitch games to regularly outside the top 10. The thing is, though, the missing viewership mostly didn't migrate to YouTube, instead just deciding to not watch at all. The appeal behind Twitch and CS:GO was that there was basically non-stop _very high_ quality content being streamed, and you didn't need to put in a single ounce of effort to find it. YouTube very much does not have that same user flow down, at all. And now (even though the position isn't particularly degraded), owing to the relative difficulty of finding tournaments on YouTube OR Twitch, I find myself watching a lot less. So goes the general vibe of the community. Sure, woe is us, 2 whole sources? But consider this: YouTube's discoverability is horrible, its UI plagued with reruns emblazoned with a red "LIVE NOW" that screams for your attention at first and later leaves you unwilling to trust any visuals on the site; Twitch, on the other hand, with its inability to pause / rewind / stream a smooth 1080p60 (hell, even 720p60 stutters 10x as much as YouTube's) leaves you comparatively upset about video quality when you watch there. So I guess my point is that Twitch clearly loses in the tech department to YouTube, but its benefits (more entertaining chat, better discoverability and UI/UX) are more than enough to make you a dedicated user when exclusivity is part of that package. It'll be interesting to see which side can overcome its issues to gain the advantage. Note: edits for readability have occurred over the 5 minutes following the posting of this comment

emmett 9y ago
We care a lot about stream quality at Twitch. Can I ask where you're watching from that you get so many stutters? That's a key metric we measure ("buffer empties per hour"), so I know for a fact it's not high everywhere.

xfalcox 9y ago

This sucks for the consumer. During DotA's The International I can choose between many services (in-game, Steam, Youtube, Twitch) and pick the one which works better for me.

ekianjo 9y ago
yup. Exclusive deals are just like exclusive games for consoles. It only feels good for the first party publisher and the fanboys but its bad for pretty much everyone else.
- jakebasile 9y ago
  I wish more people were able to see this. Any exclusive that isn't due to actual limitations and is solely being done because someone paid for it is harmful to consumers. The console manufacturers do it to prop up their consoles, Netflix et al. do it to prop up their services. In this case, Twitch is doing it to ensure their dominance in streaming. There are exclusives for the Nintendo consoles that depend on their wacky hardware. There are more PC exclusives than all the other systems combined for many reasons: no cost to release, no cost to update, no online service costs, vastly superior compute power, unrestricted machine access, and special peripheral support (e.g. HOTAS for flight sims) which combines to enable lots of smaller, niche games to come out on PC. Paid exclusives suck. They exist purely to make companies happy because it forces people to buy what they don't already have or need and it makes the people who construct their identity around a brand happy because they have something other people cannot have.
  - zanny 9y ago
    > There are exclusives for the Nintendo consoles that depend on their wacky hardware. Not really. Actually, not at all. It is a terrible excuse for Nintendo, who I think is one of the worst offenders in the gaming space at using exclusivity to drive hardware sales and lock in. The Wii Mote, for example, has been fully supported on PCs since about 2008 - a year after it came out. And there were probably beta drivers dating back to its release. It uses bluetooth, after all, its just an HID device. You can easily ship a game for PC that requires that controller. Since their Wii U pad was just a dedicated computer that communicated over wifi (proprietary, I think?) with the base console, that kind of logic code can be ported anywhere. It just requires a server that converts the pads touch events and controls into a local touchscreen + joypad with haptics and gyros. Every major OS supports these, and has since well before the Wii U came out. And don't get me started on the Switch. It is just an Android tablet (and the worst part is Nintendo stopped Nvidia from releasing a much needed Shield Tablet 2 because it would have just been a literal Switch without the controller parts included for half the price in exchange for using their SoC) with attachable joystick pieces. Again, every OS can support this input style, and any game can require it. Nintendo has invested in manufacturing and distributing really shitty computers (since the Gamecube every Nintendo console has been underpowered compared to the average PC and was way behind its contemporary consoles) and writing a giant proprietary freedom-hating set top OS for them that uses proprietary APIs that are non-portable for developers to target for what I believe no reason than power hunger. There isn't even a profit motive in it - they make a tiny amount of money per console sold, nobody ships games on their systems anymore so they aren't getting any licensing money, and the vast majority of their income is from first party sales. But their first party titles only ever support their shitty hardware. It means they are dramatically reducing their potential audience of $60 pure profit releases per box (and their games have ravenous fans, even those that cannot afford a redundant $300 piece of junk) to move console units that don't make any money. The only reason to do that is because that is what you have always done. So you keep doing it, because you are addicted to having that level of control, even when it doesn't have a business benefit. It is pretty stupid.

niftich 9y ago

In the past 12 months Blizzard has integrated Facebook login [1], Facebook Live streaming [2], and Facebook friend lists [3] into their revamped Blizzard App (previously known as the Battle.net Launcher). The live streaming functionality was particularly a shot across the bow [4][5] against someone like Twitch/Curse, so it's interesting to see that Amazon has now responded and forged this new deal with Blizzard. I'm curious if it's just about the content (driving viewers to the platform) or if there's more in the works between these two. Warning, slow links: [1] https://venturebeat.com/2016/06/06/facebook-to-provide-login-and-live-video-for-blizzards-overwatch-game/ https://venturebeat.com/2016/06/06/facebook-to-provide-login... [2] http://www.wowhead.com/news=255393/blizzard-and-facebook-streaming-and-login http://www.wowhead.com/news=255393/blizzard-and-facebook-str... [3] http://www.wowhead.com/news=260084/battle-net-and-facebook-friends-integration http://www.wowhead.com/news=260084/battle-net-and-facebook-f... [4] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12371440 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12371440 [5] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12381447 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12381447

ajacksified 9y ago
When they announced integrated streaming, I was excited- until I saw I had to link Facebook, which was a huge disappointment. I use Facebook for sharing pictures of my kids and family stuff, and I have no interest in either sharing my stream with my family or sharing my family with anybody I game with (random people I meet online.) Facebook, at least for me, is far too personal to use as a broadcasting platform, and it seemed like a weird choice that limits potential users to pro teams rather than casual streamers.
j_s 9y ago
Also noticed they are headlining Destiny 2 (from Activision+Bungie) in the Blizzard App store, and that it will be launched from the Blizzard App ("Blizzard Desktop app and registration required to play")
- ihuman 9y ago
  Activision and Blizzard are both owned by Activision Blizzard, so by putting Destiny 2 in Battle.net they can keep the share Valve would take for selling it on steam.

6stringmerc 9y ago

Wait, 320 Million viewers? That has to be a historical aggregate of sorts. What kind of source for that claim exists? Oh, let's check the link! Hmm, okay, it goes to an article that cites another source. The BBC? Reputable source, so here's the deal: >Esports generated $493m (£400m) in revenue in 2016, with a global audience of about 320 million people. So yeah, that's an aggregate of all of 2016. Let's compare it to the highest watched Super Bowl on record - Broncos vs. Seahawks: 111 million US viewers. In ONE DAY. Yes I understand that I'm skewing pretty hard, but even the worst Super Bowl viewing in modern times pulled 39 million or so. My point is that yeah, eSports looks like it has some numbers, but I work in a high rise building full of financially successful people that are desired marketing targets and I have little doubt barely 0.01% of them watch eSports. Or, if I want to be a real jackass about it, I could just call eSports the equivalent of K-Pop. The numbers are there to show it's popular, sure. It's just not the target market for millions of dollars of advertising budget for US eyes.

fnovd 9y ago
Twitch : EPSN :: Gamers : Jocks It's a new(ish) platform whose demographic (people who enjoy video games) is growing larger every year. Today's 40 and 50 year olds don't play nearly as many games as the next decade's will. Whether or not they can wrangle that into marketing $$$ is another story.
djloche 9y ago
To put "eSports" into perspective, let's take League's 2016 World Championship in the context of the other world championships. 2016 Basketball Worlds Final Game: 31M viewers 2016 Baseball Worlds Final Game: 40M viewers 2016 League of Legends Worlds Final: 43M viewers So, okay. eSports isn't quite at the American Football level. But, it right in line with the other top broadcast sports
lovehashbrowns 9y ago
The demographic that Twitch is after isn't just a niche curiosity. That is the same demographic that spent an estimated 1.6 billion dollars in 2016 on League of Legends, one of the many successful games that are featured on Twitch. Another estimated 18 million dollars a month in Dota 2. One of the most successful streamers on Twitch reportedly pulls in 2 million dollars a year. It's not on the level of the NFL's 13+ billion dollars a year, but it's certainly nothing to laugh at. Keep in mind that Amazon purchased Twitch for almost 1 billion dollars.

gigatexal 9y ago

Sweet! I’m more likely to watch eSports than the NFL or the NBA

randomdrake 9y ago

Twitch has some very serious moderation challenges ahead of them, that they haven't proven they're able to solve, before I can be convinced this is a good thing. Online communities rely on good moderators and moderation tools to be able to thrive. I am a big Hearthstone fan so I enjoy watching the competitions sometimes. It's been consistently the highest viewed Blizzard game on Twitch for a long time now so it's important to bring up in this discussion. PlayHearthstone[1] is the official channel for Hearthstone events so you would think it would be representative of how Blizzard wants to operate in the competitive space. Whether it is due to technology, lack of oversight, or simply not caring, Twitch chat is notoriously atrocious; rampant with trolling, vitriol, spamming, and terrible behavior. To make things worse, there's absolutely no consistency with how events are moderated, if they are at all. For one event, members are banned for simply asking questions, or providing constructive criticism to the casting of the event with mods creating trigger phrases or words that lead to users getting banned immediately without knowing why. For other events, the chatters are allowed to use all manner of racial, sexual, demeaning, and outright threatening and horrific text towards the casters, the events, and the participants. It's disgusting to watch, completely unprofessional, and something that has been brought up multiple times by the community with no concrete resolution. Either Blizzard finds it acceptable, Twitch finds it acceptable, or they haven't figured out how to do well in moderating live chats with thousands of people. Given their track record, I'm hesitant to be excited about the exclusivity. [1] - https://www.twitch.tv/playhearthstone https://www.twitch.tv/playhearthstone

jsnk 9y ago
Please no, I love Twitch chat the way it is. If streamers want to moderate chat some way, let them do it, but I really hope Twitch doesn't enforce one-size fits all topdown moderation rule. That's how you kill vibrant communities and subcultures who are the top 10% who make Twitch fun, and streams' finances sound. If you find memes and jokes crude for some stream, go to some other and support their streams. So many games and communities have been killed by topdown approach to content moderation.
- WaxProlix 9y ago
  They need to provide tooling to enable moderation, not necessarily enforce it. Forsen's chat isn't going to change, you will still get your gachi on, but official tourneys need a way to stop the insane racism. Look at TerrenceM's comments about how he hoped his parents didn't see the chat while they were rooting for their son in his first competition - it shouldn't be that way, and Twitch (and Blizz/Playheartstone) is failing streamers and competitors by not providing anything in this area.

sergiotapia 9y ago

That's a shame, I like Mixer so much more than Twitch. Twitch at this point feels like MySpace, with all the custom bullshit sprinkled around. Mixer is nicer and clean, and f-a-s-t. I'm waiting for the Mixer apple tv app and I'll be all set.

diziet 9y ago

Blizzard e-sport events were already streamed primarily on Twitch.

spicytunacone 9y ago

Wonder if Twitch somehow got a hold on major Brood War events, namely the Afreeca Starleague, seeing as how it was already getting restreamed in English on Twitch. With the HD remaster I imagine Blizzard would want to take back more control and hold more events of their own, too. On that note, I still don't know what version/patch the competitive community wants to use going forward, either.

LandoCalrissian 9y ago

Can I just say that the Justin.TV to Twich pivot was one of the best examples of pivoting to your market that I have ever seen?

bballer 9y ago
Agreed. I loved listening to the startup school radio episode about how they got started and how they pivoted. https://blog.ycombinator.com/startup-school-radio-episode-2-how-justin-dot-tv-became-twitch/ https://blog.ycombinator.com/startup-school-radio-episode-2-...

eterm 9y ago

Twitch has destroyed the way I consume twitch. I used to stick twitch on my TV while eating dinner or for big events such as csgo majors or LCS finals. But as of about a month ago twitch now blocks chromecast. I can no longer watch twitch on my TV and I hate that fact. And no I'm not going to buy a 'fire stick', I don't like being manipulated into buying something when it previously worked well and has been deliberately downgraded.

jrimbault 9y ago
WTF Amazon ? I also did that, but only in summer (for architectural reasons). I'm already pissed I won't be able to do that this summer. Thank you for the heads up.
Aissen 9y ago
I only watch Twitch on Android TV (with their awful that decides to log you off periodically), but seriously, WTF Twitch ? Why block Chromecast ? BTW, did you try any technical workaround?
- MachinShinn- 9y ago
  TIL there are hacker news readers who use such awful garbage as chromecast and Android TV...
  - Aissen 9y ago
    Not all HN readers/commenters are in the Bay Area ;-)
- raffleslodge 9y ago
  My chromecast works perfectly.
ErikHuisman 9y ago
Really? https://help.twitch.tv/customer/portal/articles/1691460-chromecast-support https://help.twitch.tv/customer/portal/articles/1691460-chro...

Aissen 9y ago

Twitch is nice, but my biggest grief is that it's not YouTube. YouTube is literally everywhere, on every TV, set-top-box, cast device, etc. Twitch is not. Which make it more complicated to watch streams and vods/replays. It's the same issue Netflix competitors have. They need to get everywhere fast.

ArlenBales 9y ago

Exclusive streaming deals are bad. E3 proved that Twitch has trouble with high viewer counts. YouTube had higher viewer counts on just about all major conferences at E3 and had no network problems.