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Slack is great when used as modern irc. But many teams try to replace email, issue tracker, ci, deploy all into slack and it becomes too much. People in our com

Slack is great when used as modern irc. But many teams try to replace email, issue tracker, ci, deploy all into slack and it becomes too much. People in our company made all these integrations to paste back emojis into GitHub comments, to create a new ci run and all sorts of things. Honestly, It was all very irritating to be in love with a tool this way. Sort of like forcing emacs to do everything (peace be upon emacs). Thankfully it all came to a head when the buggy deploy bot made a broken deploy and we started using it just for plain chat and moved to free plan because we didn't want history on purpose.

hasenj 9y ago
Sounds a lot like a shared command line.
- susw 9y ago
  Twitch does development.
  - hasenj 9y ago
    Is that some kind of a meme?
    - TeMPOraL 9y ago
      In a way. Started probably with "Twitch Plays Pokemon", "Twich Plays/Does X" means thousands and thousands of people trying to simultaneously control a single-user game or application, with the whole thing being live-streamed.
  - pbhjpbhj 9y ago
    Just "Twitch does text editor key-bindings" would probably be enough to occupy all programmer time until the death of the human race.
odonnellryan 9y ago
Slack as an issue tracker is the dumbest thing. Yeah history is actually cool, because you can forget to track, but it's too easy to say "oh it is in history search for it" ... ok./
TeMPOraL 9y ago
I know I just got baited, but... > Sort of like forcing emacs to do everything (peace be upon emacs). Yeah, except that people force Emacs to do everything because it's more convenient and efficient to do things this way. Things within Emacs are much more interoperable than anything else[0] in your operating system - both by having a no-bullshit, powerful[1] and consistent UI, and by being designed for interoperability and third-party extension from the get-go. Basically everything that deals mostly with text - and that includes IRC, issue tracking, e-mail, etc. - is better done in Emacs than in a standalone (or God forbid, web) tool. Emacs OS maybe a weird and unpopular mindset, but it's a very practical mindset. -- [0] - besides maybe terminal utilities, but we're talking applications with UI here. [1] - all the weird shortcuts doing text magic work on everything in Emacs, so the investment pays off across everything you do within this environment.
- a3n 9y ago
  > [1] - all the weird shortcuts doing text magic work on everything in Emacs, so the investment pays off across everything you do within this environment. People want their muscle memory to follow them. Emacs solved it by pulling applications into Emacs. Vim/vi "solved" it by virtue of applications adapting vim keyboard conventions. "Solved" in quotes not because it's not a solution, but because the solution wasn't implemented in Vim, but in each application where a developer wanted to use their muscle memory. An excellent compromise solution is apps that use readline: you can use either editor's muscle memory. I have an addon installed in firefox that lets me use my Vim muscle memory in firefox. https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/addon/vimfx https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/addon/vimfx https://github.com/akhodakivskiy/VimFx https://github.com/akhodakivskiy/VimFx
  - TeMPOraL 9y ago
    It's true only for the very basics. Applications adopting vim shortcuts, or using readline, take on the most rudimentary navigation shortcuts. But that's not what I meant about weird shortcuts doing text magic. Consider e.g. e-mail in Emacs[0] as on this screenshot: [1]. Both the list and the message you see on this screenshot are read-only UI, like in any terminal-oriented app. Except that I can navigate through and manipulate them with all my usual Emacs shortcuts, including: - using incremental search to find a message of interest - doing regular Emacs region selection over multiple messages, to apply the same action to many of them - semantic expansion of selection - using selection to spawn multiple cursors at appropriate places, and then apply the same actions under each cursor - using M-x occur to do a "grep" on contents - using regexp highlighting to highlight lines or words matching regexp - using narrowing and widening to display only a subsection of the e-mail list ... and many more, and all those examples didn't even touch e-mail-mode-specific things! That's just text-editing shortcuts over text UI! Those are all the things you'll have in your muscle memory as a proficient Emacs user, and you can use them everywhere - be it IRC, terminal, a REPL, list of e-mails, etc. In this way, "Emacs OS" UX is superior to my "host" OS UX (be it Windows or Linux), because I can perform all those actions in an unified way, without breaking my flow - and I have access to very advanced/complex actions (plus the ability to write my own, or download them from the Internet). Oh, and even if read-only, the UI is still text, so I can just mark it all, copy over to another buffer, and process it as if I was working with a plaintext file. No need for scrapping anything. EDIT: changed "expansion" to "widening" in the point about narrowing. -- [0] - which I just managed to get working, thanks to friendly HNers that responded to me here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14569833 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14569833. [1] - http://i.imgur.com/JpnxZSl.png http://i.imgur.com/JpnxZSl.png
romanovcode 9y ago
> Slack is great when used as modern irc. I am not sure if sarcasm or what. It's way worse then IRC because it's so damn slow.

hasenj 9y ago

Sounds a lot like a shared command line.

susw 9y ago
Twitch does development.
- hasenj 9y ago
  Is that some kind of a meme?
  - TeMPOraL 9y ago
    In a way. Started probably with "Twitch Plays Pokemon", "Twich Plays/Does X" means thousands and thousands of people trying to simultaneously control a single-user game or application, with the whole thing being live-streamed.
- pbhjpbhj 9y ago
  Just "Twitch does text editor key-bindings" would probably be enough to occupy all programmer time until the death of the human race.

odonnellryan 9y ago

Slack as an issue tracker is the dumbest thing. Yeah history is actually cool, because you can forget to track, but it's too easy to say "oh it is in history search for it" ... ok./

TeMPOraL 9y ago

I know I just got baited, but... > Sort of like forcing emacs to do everything (peace be upon emacs). Yeah, except that people force Emacs to do everything because it's more convenient and efficient to do things this way. Things within Emacs are much more interoperable than anything else[0] in your operating system - both by having a no-bullshit, powerful[1] and consistent UI, and by being designed for interoperability and third-party extension from the get-go. Basically everything that deals mostly with text - and that includes IRC, issue tracking, e-mail, etc. - is better done in Emacs than in a standalone (or God forbid, web) tool. Emacs OS maybe a weird and unpopular mindset, but it's a very practical mindset. -- [0] - besides maybe terminal utilities, but we're talking applications with UI here. [1] - all the weird shortcuts doing text magic work on everything in Emacs, so the investment pays off across everything you do within this environment.

a3n 9y ago
> [1] - all the weird shortcuts doing text magic work on everything in Emacs, so the investment pays off across everything you do within this environment. People want their muscle memory to follow them. Emacs solved it by pulling applications into Emacs. Vim/vi "solved" it by virtue of applications adapting vim keyboard conventions. "Solved" in quotes not because it's not a solution, but because the solution wasn't implemented in Vim, but in each application where a developer wanted to use their muscle memory. An excellent compromise solution is apps that use readline: you can use either editor's muscle memory. I have an addon installed in firefox that lets me use my Vim muscle memory in firefox. https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/addon/vimfx https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/addon/vimfx https://github.com/akhodakivskiy/VimFx https://github.com/akhodakivskiy/VimFx
- TeMPOraL 9y ago
  It's true only for the very basics. Applications adopting vim shortcuts, or using readline, take on the most rudimentary navigation shortcuts. But that's not what I meant about weird shortcuts doing text magic. Consider e.g. e-mail in Emacs[0] as on this screenshot: [1]. Both the list and the message you see on this screenshot are read-only UI, like in any terminal-oriented app. Except that I can navigate through and manipulate them with all my usual Emacs shortcuts, including: - using incremental search to find a message of interest - doing regular Emacs region selection over multiple messages, to apply the same action to many of them - semantic expansion of selection - using selection to spawn multiple cursors at appropriate places, and then apply the same actions under each cursor - using M-x occur to do a "grep" on contents - using regexp highlighting to highlight lines or words matching regexp - using narrowing and widening to display only a subsection of the e-mail list ... and many more, and all those examples didn't even touch e-mail-mode-specific things! That's just text-editing shortcuts over text UI! Those are all the things you'll have in your muscle memory as a proficient Emacs user, and you can use them everywhere - be it IRC, terminal, a REPL, list of e-mails, etc. In this way, "Emacs OS" UX is superior to my "host" OS UX (be it Windows or Linux), because I can perform all those actions in an unified way, without breaking my flow - and I have access to very advanced/complex actions (plus the ability to write my own, or download them from the Internet). Oh, and even if read-only, the UI is still text, so I can just mark it all, copy over to another buffer, and process it as if I was working with a plaintext file. No need for scrapping anything. EDIT: changed "expansion" to "widening" in the point about narrowing. -- [0] - which I just managed to get working, thanks to friendly HNers that responded to me here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14569833 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14569833. [1] - http://i.imgur.com/JpnxZSl.png http://i.imgur.com/JpnxZSl.png

romanovcode 9y ago

> Slack is great when used as modern irc. I am not sure if sarcasm or what. It's way worse then IRC because it's so damn slow.