5 ms·

How Do You Conserve Art Made of Bologna, or Bubble Gum, or Soap?

22 points by prismatic 9y ago

anotheryou 9y ago
take a picture and let go
petersjt014 9y ago
Well... http://theconversation.com/preservationists-race-to-capture-cultural-monuments-with-3d-images-53536 http://theconversation.com/preservationists-race-to-capture-...
cosinetau 9y ago
shellac
glitcher 9y ago
The medium an artist chooses may be a strong indicator of their intention for the piece's longevity.
- vacri 9y ago
  I was thinking the same thing. For something like Fox Games, the use of bread rather than a permanent material is incidental. But for a bust made of chocolate or an art piece where meat is nailed to a wall, the impermanent material is clearly part of the piece. I remember when a 'golden age' (modern/pop art) display from MoMA came to my town. A lot of important pieces where there, but everything was tired and fading with age. Most notably was an art piece that was mounted on the wall, a metal thing with dangly bits, that the museum had put 'don't touch' around. But in the informational blurb, the artist intended the piece to be touched and physically spun by the viewer. I always wondered if the artist would have preferred the piece to be worn out and destroyed through interaction with the public, or frozen in time and put on static display forever (which seems opposite to the original intent).
  - glitcher 9y ago
    This really reminds me of the debate over who does art belong to once it's released out into the world? On the one hand, it makes complete sense that the creator of the artwork should have the final say in how it is interacted with by viewers, and whether or not it should be preserved. But on the other hand, when George Lucas says I'm not allowed to purchase the original non-digitally-enhanced version of the first Star Wars movie so dear to my childhood memories it really pisses me off!
crucini 9y ago
You call in a hazmat team to dispose of it. The article leads off with the chocolate and soap busts, which at least show artistic merit, unlike nailing deli meat to the wall. However the artistic merit is unaffected by the material. IF you think these busts are notable sculpture, preserve by making a mold and casting them in a durable resin. That preserves the sculptural form, but not the material. This pattern is shown in bronze statues (generally the original was sculpted from clay) and in plastic and resin toy figures (original often sculpted from wax). The problem is the busts probably aren't worth preserving sculpturally (they're competent, but not evocative), and part of the perceived "art value" is being made of a weird material. I'll use risky terminology here: If a REAL artist wanted a "chocolate bust" - since the bust is purely a visual artifact - he would sculpt or mold it of a suitable material and paint it to look like chocolate. That's what a movie or theme park would use to convey the IDEA of a chocolate bust.
- mturmon 9y ago
  The artist you have noted, Janine Antoni, did the famous piece Gnaw (a huge cube of gnawed chocolate) as well as the chocolate busts you mention. Here's a summary of her intentions: http://www.artnews.com/2013/02/21/chocolate-self-portraits-by-janine-antoni-and-dieter-rot/ http://www.artnews.com/2013/02/21/chocolate-self-portraits-b... Smelling the chocolate, and indeed the possibility of a transgressive viewer licking it, is definitely part of the piece. Brown paint wouldn't cut it. On the subject of smelly rooms, I was able to experience the chocolate room by Anya Gallacio (http://beautifuldecay.com/2014/05/27/anya-gallaccio-creates-room-made-chocolate/ http://beautifuldecay.com/2014/05/27/anya-gallaccio-creates-...), and let me say, a whole gallery room that smelled of chocolate was highly memorable. I did not lick the wall, but it was allowed. Delightful!
  - crucini 9y ago
    It seems to me that if the smell of chocolate is part of the desired experience, you design and render that smell. Random link on artificial smells: https://foodbabe.com/2015/02/16/the-behind-the-scenes-marketing-tricks/ https://foodbabe.com/2015/02/16/the-behind-the-scenes-market... What kind of chocolate smell do we want? How sweet? How much vanilla note? How much burnt component? How concentrated or diffused in space? We probably don't want the smell to change over time, just like you probably don't want the colors in a painting to change over time. To me, making the artifact out of chocolate is a bad way of creating a chocolate smell. The exposed surface area will offgas and oxidize, resulting in a diminishing and changing smell. It seems lazy; it also seems like "confusing the map with the territory".
mturmon 9y ago
I happened to talk to one of the MOCA curators who put together Dan Flavin's recent retrospective at MOCA in LA. The work, as described in TFA, is (famously) made of fluorescent tubes in very simple arrangements (e.g., https://www.moca.org/collection/work/monument-for-v-tatlin https://www.moca.org/collection/work/monument-for-v-tatlin). Because of the simplicity, small color changes are noticeable, and really affect your perception of the piece. The conservation crew had to drive out to a warehouse in Arizona which still had leftovers of the same tubes used in the original piece. In a hypothetical future retrospective, she had no idea where the tubes were going to come from. They bought a bunch. ;-) Another example is Nam June Paik's early installations with massed televisions. They are CRT televisions - he liked that form and it is integral to the way his pieces look -- and they tend to break down over time. Here's a nice piece on conserving an intricate piece of his: https://www.moma.org/explore/inside_out/2013/04/15/conserving-a-nam-june-paik-altered-piano/ https://www.moma.org/explore/inside_out/2013/04/15/conservin...
jacquesm 9y ago
Or Peanutbutter? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pindakaasvloer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pindakaasvloer A short term version of this problem exists in food and flower photography. The power output of the light and oxidization can turn a pretty dish or flower into much or a wilted mess before the right shot is made. There exists a whole industry to fake the products.
toyg 9y ago
Bologna is a city. Mortadella is the food. Source: born and raised in Bologna.
- abritinthebay 9y ago
  Then you'd think you'd know that Bologna is a US variant of Mortadella that omits the cubes of pork fat. It's named after your home city, and inspired by Mortadella, but it's not the same thing.
  - mannykannot 9y ago
    And, more relevantly to this topic, frequently full of preservatives.
  - jaclaz 9y ago
    And it is sometimes called baloney: http://www.dictionary.com/browse/baloney http://www.dictionary.com/browse/baloney or even polony: http://www.dictionary.com/browse/polony http://www.dictionary.com/browse/polony and pronounced VERY differently from "Bologna" (the city). To me calling the product just "Bologna" (as opposed to "Bologna sausage") sounds inappropriate (in the context of an article on theatlantic.com and particularly one with an intended "cultural" value), but as often happens it's probably just me.
  - toyg 9y ago
    I know but I still think it's wrong; a city is a city and food is food, so at least people should have the decency of using the adjective form (like Frankfurter) or a made-up name like baloney, not the capitalized city name. So I'm taking it back (https://youtu.be/dWdVwt2deY4 https://youtu.be/dWdVwt2deY4 ).
    - abritinthebay 9y ago
      Good luck with that.
SpikeDad 9y ago
Seems to me that if an artist chooses to use a fragile or organic medium for their art they have to accept the fact that it's going to be a temporary object. After all cooks make artistic dishes that they know will exist only for a short time. Sidewalk chalk artists make some of the most amazing drawings I've ever seen and they're perfectly happy knowing they are only temporary. I think making a cast or other physical reproduction actual reduces the artistic quality of the item. Some things are ephemeral and they should be looked at that way.

22 points by prismatic 9y ago

take a picture and let go

Well... http://theconversation.com/preservationists-race-to-capture-cultural-monuments-with-3d-images-53536 http://theconversation.com/preservationists-race-to-capture-...

cosinetau 9y ago

shellac

glitcher 9y ago

The medium an artist chooses may be a strong indicator of their intention for the piece's longevity.

vacri 9y ago
I was thinking the same thing. For something like Fox Games, the use of bread rather than a permanent material is incidental. But for a bust made of chocolate or an art piece where meat is nailed to a wall, the impermanent material is clearly part of the piece. I remember when a 'golden age' (modern/pop art) display from MoMA came to my town. A lot of important pieces where there, but everything was tired and fading with age. Most notably was an art piece that was mounted on the wall, a metal thing with dangly bits, that the museum had put 'don't touch' around. But in the informational blurb, the artist intended the piece to be touched and physically spun by the viewer. I always wondered if the artist would have preferred the piece to be worn out and destroyed through interaction with the public, or frozen in time and put on static display forever (which seems opposite to the original intent).
- glitcher 9y ago
  This really reminds me of the debate over who does art belong to once it's released out into the world? On the one hand, it makes complete sense that the creator of the artwork should have the final say in how it is interacted with by viewers, and whether or not it should be preserved. But on the other hand, when George Lucas says I'm not allowed to purchase the original non-digitally-enhanced version of the first Star Wars movie so dear to my childhood memories it really pisses me off!

crucini 9y ago

You call in a hazmat team to dispose of it. The article leads off with the chocolate and soap busts, which at least show artistic merit, unlike nailing deli meat to the wall. However the artistic merit is unaffected by the material. IF you think these busts are notable sculpture, preserve by making a mold and casting them in a durable resin. That preserves the sculptural form, but not the material. This pattern is shown in bronze statues (generally the original was sculpted from clay) and in plastic and resin toy figures (original often sculpted from wax). The problem is the busts probably aren't worth preserving sculpturally (they're competent, but not evocative), and part of the perceived "art value" is being made of a weird material. I'll use risky terminology here: If a REAL artist wanted a "chocolate bust" - since the bust is purely a visual artifact - he would sculpt or mold it of a suitable material and paint it to look like chocolate. That's what a movie or theme park would use to convey the IDEA of a chocolate bust.

mturmon 9y ago
The artist you have noted, Janine Antoni, did the famous piece Gnaw (a huge cube of gnawed chocolate) as well as the chocolate busts you mention. Here's a summary of her intentions: http://www.artnews.com/2013/02/21/chocolate-self-portraits-by-janine-antoni-and-dieter-rot/ http://www.artnews.com/2013/02/21/chocolate-self-portraits-b... Smelling the chocolate, and indeed the possibility of a transgressive viewer licking it, is definitely part of the piece. Brown paint wouldn't cut it. On the subject of smelly rooms, I was able to experience the chocolate room by Anya Gallacio (http://beautifuldecay.com/2014/05/27/anya-gallaccio-creates-room-made-chocolate/ http://beautifuldecay.com/2014/05/27/anya-gallaccio-creates-...), and let me say, a whole gallery room that smelled of chocolate was highly memorable. I did not lick the wall, but it was allowed. Delightful!
- crucini 9y ago
  It seems to me that if the smell of chocolate is part of the desired experience, you design and render that smell. Random link on artificial smells: https://foodbabe.com/2015/02/16/the-behind-the-scenes-marketing-tricks/ https://foodbabe.com/2015/02/16/the-behind-the-scenes-market... What kind of chocolate smell do we want? How sweet? How much vanilla note? How much burnt component? How concentrated or diffused in space? We probably don't want the smell to change over time, just like you probably don't want the colors in a painting to change over time. To me, making the artifact out of chocolate is a bad way of creating a chocolate smell. The exposed surface area will offgas and oxidize, resulting in a diminishing and changing smell. It seems lazy; it also seems like "confusing the map with the territory".

mturmon 9y ago

I happened to talk to one of the MOCA curators who put together Dan Flavin's recent retrospective at MOCA in LA. The work, as described in TFA, is (famously) made of fluorescent tubes in very simple arrangements (e.g., https://www.moca.org/collection/work/monument-for-v-tatlin https://www.moca.org/collection/work/monument-for-v-tatlin). Because of the simplicity, small color changes are noticeable, and really affect your perception of the piece. The conservation crew had to drive out to a warehouse in Arizona which still had leftovers of the same tubes used in the original piece. In a hypothetical future retrospective, she had no idea where the tubes were going to come from. They bought a bunch. ;-) Another example is Nam June Paik's early installations with massed televisions. They are CRT televisions - he liked that form and it is integral to the way his pieces look -- and they tend to break down over time. Here's a nice piece on conserving an intricate piece of his: https://www.moma.org/explore/inside_out/2013/04/15/conserving-a-nam-june-paik-altered-piano/ https://www.moma.org/explore/inside_out/2013/04/15/conservin...

jacquesm 9y ago

Or Peanutbutter? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pindakaasvloer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pindakaasvloer A short term version of this problem exists in food and flower photography. The power output of the light and oxidization can turn a pretty dish or flower into much or a wilted mess before the right shot is made. There exists a whole industry to fake the products.

toyg 9y ago

Bologna is a city. Mortadella is the food. Source: born and raised in Bologna.

abritinthebay 9y ago
Then you'd think you'd know that Bologna is a US variant of Mortadella that omits the cubes of pork fat. It's named after your home city, and inspired by Mortadella, but it's not the same thing.
- mannykannot 9y ago
  And, more relevantly to this topic, frequently full of preservatives.
- jaclaz 9y ago
  And it is sometimes called baloney: http://www.dictionary.com/browse/baloney http://www.dictionary.com/browse/baloney or even polony: http://www.dictionary.com/browse/polony http://www.dictionary.com/browse/polony and pronounced VERY differently from "Bologna" (the city). To me calling the product just "Bologna" (as opposed to "Bologna sausage") sounds inappropriate (in the context of an article on theatlantic.com and particularly one with an intended "cultural" value), but as often happens it's probably just me.
- toyg 9y ago
  I know but I still think it's wrong; a city is a city and food is food, so at least people should have the decency of using the adjective form (like Frankfurter) or a made-up name like baloney, not the capitalized city name. So I'm taking it back (https://youtu.be/dWdVwt2deY4 https://youtu.be/dWdVwt2deY4 ).
  - abritinthebay 9y ago
    Good luck with that.

SpikeDad 9y ago

Seems to me that if an artist chooses to use a fragile or organic medium for their art they have to accept the fact that it's going to be a temporary object. After all cooks make artistic dishes that they know will exist only for a short time. Sidewalk chalk artists make some of the most amazing drawings I've ever seen and they're perfectly happy knowing they are only temporary. I think making a cast or other physical reproduction actual reduces the artistic quality of the item. Some things are ephemeral and they should be looked at that way.