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Back when I read the Narnia books at the age of 11 and 12, I remember reading of lands and people other than Narnia as being portrayed negatively. Back then I

Back when I read the Narnia books at the age of 11 and 12, I remember reading of lands and people other than Narnia as being portrayed negatively. Back then I did not know, who the lands were being referred to, but the more I started reading into other cultures, the more I found a strong resonance with the cultures of Iran and Turkey. Turkish delight was served by the evil witch and it turned Edmund unto a spell. In other books, I cannot remember which one, but there is the story of being lost and traveling through other lands and falling into the control of shahs and pashas. The Narnia books were C.S. Lewis's attempt at turning thinking, particularly child thinking, against the cultures found in the Middle East. I found a great article that connects a lot of the references and provides background behind C.S. Lewis. https://prunusdulcis.wordpress.com/2010/03/05/baklava-in-beaversdam-the-turkishness-of-narnia/ https://prunusdulcis.wordpress.com/2010/03/05/baklava-in-bea... I am now perplexed with recommending or not recommending this book. It was a terrific joy for me, very much like Harry Potter is a joy for children these days. Edit: corrected link.

circlefavshape 9y ago
There was some kind of cruel god among the desert people in one of the books too - like a bird-of-prey version of Aslan
- duskwuff 9y ago
  Tash. (And of course there's a wiki for that.) http://narnia.wikia.com/wiki/Tash http://narnia.wikia.com/wiki/Tash
dcminter 9y ago
You're currently being downvoted and I'm not sure why. However, I don't think you're quite right about Lewis' motives so that may be part of it. Yes, he had a hidden agenda: the books are somewhat allegorical and intended to turn the child towards Christianity, not against a particular culture. I'd assume that the negative portrayal arose out of the conventional thinking of his time far more than anything more sinister. Which is not to say that it's palatable now. I too loved the books as a child, utterly failing to realise their subtext until much later in life and I too would hesitate about passing them on to a child unexplained.
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  > Yes, he had a hidden agenda: the books are somewhat allegorical and intended to turn the child towards Christianity, That's not really a hidden agenda, and the books are more than somewhat allegorical.
  - dcminter 9y ago
    Well, hidden to the child I used to be. But you're right of course.
- ng12 9y ago
  He's being downvoted for the following unsubstantiated statement: > The Narnia books were C.S. Lewis's attempt at turning thinking, particularly child thinking, against the cultures found in the Middle East. What's more likely: that there's a cabal of staunchly xenophobic English fantasy authors or that foreign, unfamiliar cultures are great inspiration for fantasy stories?
  - dcminter 9y ago
    The leap from a single author to a cabal is entirely your own. That a single English fantasy author could be staunchly xenophobic is perfectly feasible and you could bring your own substantive sources to the party if you want to deny it in this particular case.
    - ng12 9y ago
      Burden of proof is on the accuser, no? I used cabal to highlight that C.S. Lewis is hardly unique -- if you think he's a xenophobe I can't imagine what you think of Tolkein or even modern authors like George R. R. Martin.
      - dmurray 9y ago
        Well, C.S Lewis was a Christian theologian whose other written works are overtly Christian apologia. Tolkien, on the other hand, was a professor of languages who was fascinated with ancient and constructed languages from a young age. Knowing that, reading the various books it's hard not to believe that the Narnia Chronicles were written partly to promote Christianity, and the Middle-Earth works were written partly to explore fictional languages.
yumaikas 9y ago
I don't really see how Narnia was Lewis's attempt at turning thinking against the Middle East. There is as much evil to be found within Narnia as there is to be found outside of it, over the entire series. There are quite a few evil Narnians, as there are also good Calormenes, such as Aravis in the Horse and His Boy, or Emmeth in The Last Battle. I don't think that Lewis wouldn't argue that Turkish Delight itself is evil, but rather that evil can clothe itself in beauty (and I think he made that very point in some of his other writings). Calormen is more used as "other", than merely "evil". It has both evil characters and good ones, and morally complex characters (like the Tisroc). As a nationality it's aims run counter to Narnian ones at times. But seeing as how it only really features in 2 out of the 7 books, I don't think C.S. Lewis was trying to use it's depiction to turn people against Middle Eastern culture. I think the worst that could be said is that Lewis was reflecting certain cultural sensibilities of his day. EDIT: That being said, if the prose is worth it, then one might take the book as an opportunity to talk about what those cultural sensibilities were, if one is recommending it to someone. Reading books that fall outside one's purview is not a bad thing, IMO. Further edit: A much stronger (though a bit longer) case is made at http://www.narniaweb.com/resources-links/are-the-chronicles-of-narnia-sexist-and-racist/ http://www.narniaweb.com/resources-links/are-the-chronicles-...
iak8god 9y ago
You're not wrong in general about the blatant orientalism in the series, though I'm not sure the witch's use of enchanted Turkish Delight is a particularly strong example. I also wonder to what extent Lewis was actively trying to turn children against other cultures vs just portraying a simplified vision of the general sentiment in his time and place. And I've always thought it was kind of neat that he makes the slightly universalist gesture of admitting a devout follower of Tash into paradise in The Last Battle.

circlefavshape 9y ago

There was some kind of cruel god among the desert people in one of the books too - like a bird-of-prey version of Aslan

duskwuff 9y ago
Tash. (And of course there's a wiki for that.) http://narnia.wikia.com/wiki/Tash http://narnia.wikia.com/wiki/Tash

dcminter 9y ago

You're currently being downvoted and I'm not sure why. However, I don't think you're quite right about Lewis' motives so that may be part of it. Yes, he had a hidden agenda: the books are somewhat allegorical and intended to turn the child towards Christianity, not against a particular culture. I'd assume that the negative portrayal arose out of the conventional thinking of his time far more than anything more sinister. Which is not to say that it's palatable now. I too loved the books as a child, utterly failing to realise their subtext until much later in life and I too would hesitate about passing them on to a child unexplained.

dragonwriter 9y ago
> Yes, he had a hidden agenda: the books are somewhat allegorical and intended to turn the child towards Christianity, That's not really a hidden agenda, and the books are more than somewhat allegorical.
- dcminter 9y ago
  Well, hidden to the child I used to be. But you're right of course.
ng12 9y ago
He's being downvoted for the following unsubstantiated statement: > The Narnia books were C.S. Lewis's attempt at turning thinking, particularly child thinking, against the cultures found in the Middle East. What's more likely: that there's a cabal of staunchly xenophobic English fantasy authors or that foreign, unfamiliar cultures are great inspiration for fantasy stories?
- dcminter 9y ago
  The leap from a single author to a cabal is entirely your own. That a single English fantasy author could be staunchly xenophobic is perfectly feasible and you could bring your own substantive sources to the party if you want to deny it in this particular case.
  - ng12 9y ago
    Burden of proof is on the accuser, no? I used cabal to highlight that C.S. Lewis is hardly unique -- if you think he's a xenophobe I can't imagine what you think of Tolkein or even modern authors like George R. R. Martin.
    - dmurray 9y ago
      Well, C.S Lewis was a Christian theologian whose other written works are overtly Christian apologia. Tolkien, on the other hand, was a professor of languages who was fascinated with ancient and constructed languages from a young age. Knowing that, reading the various books it's hard not to believe that the Narnia Chronicles were written partly to promote Christianity, and the Middle-Earth works were written partly to explore fictional languages.

yumaikas 9y ago

I don't really see how Narnia was Lewis's attempt at turning thinking against the Middle East. There is as much evil to be found within Narnia as there is to be found outside of it, over the entire series. There are quite a few evil Narnians, as there are also good Calormenes, such as Aravis in the Horse and His Boy, or Emmeth in The Last Battle. I don't think that Lewis wouldn't argue that Turkish Delight itself is evil, but rather that evil can clothe itself in beauty (and I think he made that very point in some of his other writings). Calormen is more used as "other", than merely "evil". It has both evil characters and good ones, and morally complex characters (like the Tisroc). As a nationality it's aims run counter to Narnian ones at times. But seeing as how it only really features in 2 out of the 7 books, I don't think C.S. Lewis was trying to use it's depiction to turn people against Middle Eastern culture. I think the worst that could be said is that Lewis was reflecting certain cultural sensibilities of his day. EDIT: That being said, if the prose is worth it, then one might take the book as an opportunity to talk about what those cultural sensibilities were, if one is recommending it to someone. Reading books that fall outside one's purview is not a bad thing, IMO. Further edit: A much stronger (though a bit longer) case is made at http://www.narniaweb.com/resources-links/are-the-chronicles-of-narnia-sexist-and-racist/ http://www.narniaweb.com/resources-links/are-the-chronicles-...

iak8god 9y ago

You're not wrong in general about the blatant orientalism in the series, though I'm not sure the witch's use of enchanted Turkish Delight is a particularly strong example. I also wonder to what extent Lewis was actively trying to turn children against other cultures vs just portraying a simplified vision of the general sentiment in his time and place. And I've always thought it was kind of neat that he makes the slightly universalist gesture of admitting a devout follower of Tash into paradise in The Last Battle.