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"the U.S. isn't going to lose to any foreign power" I think what you're saying is that the US isn't going to be successfully invaded by any foreign power. Losi

"the U.S. isn't going to lose to any foreign power" I think what you're saying is that the US isn't going to be successfully invaded by any foreign power. Losing a war is a very different thing (and indeed, the US has lost more than one war that didn't involve being invaded).

nostrademons 9y ago
Sure, but usually we "lose" because we shouldn't have been in there in the first place and then the public eventually realizes that. The consequences of our losses in Vietnam and Iraq were basically that we stopped spending billions of dollars and thousands of lives on wars that the average American saw zero benefit from. It wasn't that we had to live under foreign occupation, have all of our houses & industry bombed out, face down the barrel of a gun, and kowtow to imperialist oppressors.
- EliRivers 9y ago
  All that is true, and irrelevant to the winners.
- adventured 9y ago
  > The consequences of our losses in Vietnam It's worth noting the US didn't even actually lose Vietnam. When we left, the US + South Vietnam, held 80% of territory and 90% of the population base when the Paris Accords were signed. It was a civil war the US should have never been involved with, the South lost that civil war once the US pulled out. The sole difference, is that the South would have lost it dramatically faster had the US not intervened. The North was in the end more than happy to sign on to the accords, because they knew once the US was gone they could finally take the South with relatively modest resistance.
  - EliRivers 9y ago
    On the other hand, the goal of the US was to prevent the north taking over and the goal of the north was to take over. The US didn't get what they wanted; the north did get what they wanted. Sure sounds like a win for the north.
    - nostrademons 9y ago
      The complication is that the North took over and then within two decades had become intensely capitalist and a major trading partner of the U.S. So the U.S. did get what it wanted: it halted the spread of communism. It's just that this had nothing to do with anything the U.S. did, and communism just collapsed under its own weight. History is funny like that. Personally, as long as I get to write code without fear of having a gun pointed in my face or my house bombed out (both of which actually happened to my dad...we take a lot for granted in America), I'll consider that a win for me.

nostrademons 9y ago

Sure, but usually we "lose" because we shouldn't have been in there in the first place and then the public eventually realizes that. The consequences of our losses in Vietnam and Iraq were basically that we stopped spending billions of dollars and thousands of lives on wars that the average American saw zero benefit from. It wasn't that we had to live under foreign occupation, have all of our houses & industry bombed out, face down the barrel of a gun, and kowtow to imperialist oppressors.

EliRivers 9y ago
All that is true, and irrelevant to the winners.
adventured 9y ago
> The consequences of our losses in Vietnam It's worth noting the US didn't even actually lose Vietnam. When we left, the US + South Vietnam, held 80% of territory and 90% of the population base when the Paris Accords were signed. It was a civil war the US should have never been involved with, the South lost that civil war once the US pulled out. The sole difference, is that the South would have lost it dramatically faster had the US not intervened. The North was in the end more than happy to sign on to the accords, because they knew once the US was gone they could finally take the South with relatively modest resistance.
- EliRivers 9y ago
  On the other hand, the goal of the US was to prevent the north taking over and the goal of the north was to take over. The US didn't get what they wanted; the north did get what they wanted. Sure sounds like a win for the north.
  - nostrademons 9y ago
    The complication is that the North took over and then within two decades had become intensely capitalist and a major trading partner of the U.S. So the U.S. did get what it wanted: it halted the spread of communism. It's just that this had nothing to do with anything the U.S. did, and communism just collapsed under its own weight. History is funny like that. Personally, as long as I get to write code without fear of having a gun pointed in my face or my house bombed out (both of which actually happened to my dad...we take a lot for granted in America), I'll consider that a win for me.