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C.S. Lewis's Greatest Fiction: Telling Kids They’d Like Turkish Delight (2015)
- jandrese 9y agoI liked the Robot Chicken sketch on this where the nerd thinks Turkish Delight is some kind of sex act. Caution: NSFW https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrplL8orvac https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrplL8orvac
- rhcom2 9y agoI thought it was some type of tobacco at first.
- oever 9y agoIt's also a movie by Paul Verhoeven. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_Delight_(1973_film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_Delight_(1973_film)
- aidenn0 9y agoInterestingly enough, the song "Afternoon Delight" by Starlight Vocal Band was named after a dessert, despite the song itself being 3 minutes of sexual innuendo.
- sp332 9y agoThis may be my sugar-drenched American palette, but I don't remember turkish delight being that sweet. The rosewater ones are really good though.
- madcaptenor 9y agoThat's my memory as well, although I have only had Turkish delight in the samples they have at duty-free in the Istanbul airport. (I bought other things, so I guess the samples worked to get me into the store...)
- vostok 9y agoAs a child, I really liked the nut flavored Turkish delight. I never liked the regular rosewater flavor though.
- gghhvgx 9y agoWho cares?
- DoofusOfDeath 9y agoWhen my kids were younger, I took to reading the the Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe to my kids at the dinner table. Just for fun, on some of those evenings we'd have Turkish Delight at the table. The whole experience was really nice overall. But I have to say, many of the Turkish Delight flavor variations weren't very appealing: rosewater, mint, etc. We tended to like the fruitier ones such as lemon and orange. (And there was also pistachio, which I recall liking.)
- kcanini 9y agoThe rose-flavored ones are my favorite!
- johnny_reilly 9y agoThat's a brilliant idea! When my children are of an age I will surely try this out myself.
- barrkel 9y agoI still like Fry's Turkish Delight (made by Cadbury). The combination of thin chocolate covering to the weight and almost chewy mouthfeel of the rose-flavoured gel works well - it makes what chocolate there is more unctuous. The weight of it is part of what sells it for me, even though I expect it's mostly water captured in the gel. Actual sugar-dusted Turkish Delight cubes are less impressive. I don't mind the rosewater flavour - that's what I associated with the product - but it's just thick jelly. There's no contrast. And since I despise nuts, I'll not be eating any with crunchy bits either.
- Tokkemon 9y agoBest Turkish Delight I had in Istanbul was Pomegranate flavoured with dried rose pedals on the outside. Absolutely divine!
- dorian-graph 9y agoDefinitely agree about Fry's. I grew up loving that as a treat. I've since been to Turkey and had 'proper' Turkish Delight and like them both.
- toyg 9y agoNothing Cadbury ever did was good for the world of sweets and chocolate. Nothing. I'm sorry your childhood was perverted by one of the first corporations to chew and regurgitate foreign cultural items for mass consumption. For god's sake, never buy Cadbury's. The chocolate is terrible and often is not even chocolate. Cadbury's is the worst that England can offer, an example of how English taste was destroyed by the search for profit. If there is one silver lining in the whole Brexit thing, is that Cadbury's chocolate will once again be uncompetitive in Europe compared to continental offers.
- ZenoArrow 9y ago>"The chocolate is terrible and often is not even chocolate." What do you mean by this? What is your definition of chocolate?
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- quotemstr 9y agoHow can you _not_ like Turkish delight? I have some every time I see it --- which is rarely, granted.
- majortennis 9y agotextures nasty
- Jill_the_Pill 9y agoTexture is like pre-industrial gummy bears. I like it.
- ido 9y agoI actually don't remember what it tastes like (had it a few times as a kid), only that it was really disgusting. I must have had the industrial "fake" kind rather than the good stuff they sell fresh in turkey.
- mrighele 9y agoI would say it depends on the kind of lokum you eat. Even in Turkey itself you can find different kinds of very varying quality. My idea of lokum was what I would find in shops in Istanbul; lovely, though in my opinion a bit too jelly-ish. Then some relative sent us a kind made with honey from an artisan from Eastern Turkey and fell in love with it: sweet but not overly sweet or too strong, and it would almost melt in your mouth. I don't know if it counts as "true" Turkish delight, but it really seemed something that a witch would give you to put you under her control :-). Oh, and please don't buy it at the airports: you can find some nasty gummy-bear-kind-of hardened rubber that gives lokum great disservice
- splawn 9y agoI know this is subjective, but I associate the smell of roses with old ladies perfume.
- tcopeland 9y agoWhen my wife's parents come visit us from Moldova they usually bring over a box of Turkish Delight; it's always unveiled with cries of "Turkish Delight for the young prince! Ha ha ha!"
- nashashmi 9y agoBack when I read the Narnia books at the age of 11 and 12, I remember reading of lands and people other than Narnia as being portrayed negatively. Back then I did not know, who the lands were being referred to, but the more I started reading into other cultures, the more I found a strong resonance with the cultures of Iran and Turkey. Turkish delight was served by the evil witch and it turned Edmund unto a spell. In other books, I cannot remember which one, but there is the story of being lost and traveling through other lands and falling into the control of shahs and pashas. The Narnia books were C.S. Lewis's attempt at turning thinking, particularly child thinking, against the cultures found in the Middle East. I found a great article that connects a lot of the references and provides background behind C.S. Lewis. https://prunusdulcis.wordpress.com/2010/03/05/baklava-in-beaversdam-the-turkishness-of-narnia/ https://prunusdulcis.wordpress.com/2010/03/05/baklava-in-bea... I am now perplexed with recommending or not recommending this book. It was a terrific joy for me, very much like Harry Potter is a joy for children these days. Edit: corrected link.
- circlefavshape 9y agoThere was some kind of cruel god among the desert people in one of the books too - like a bird-of-prey version of Aslan
- duskwuff 9y agoTash. (And of course there's a wiki for that.) http://narnia.wikia.com/wiki/Tash http://narnia.wikia.com/wiki/Tash
- dcminter 9y agoYou're currently being downvoted and I'm not sure why. However, I don't think you're quite right about Lewis' motives so that may be part of it. Yes, he had a hidden agenda: the books are somewhat allegorical and intended to turn the child towards Christianity, not against a particular culture. I'd assume that the negative portrayal arose out of the conventional thinking of his time far more than anything more sinister. Which is not to say that it's palatable now. I too loved the books as a child, utterly failing to realise their subtext until much later in life and I too would hesitate about passing them on to a child unexplained.
- mgv11 9y agoAnother obscure and interesting Atlasobscura article. Turkish Delight are great indeed and no, had not heard about them before Narnia either.
- grenoire 9y agoProper Turkish delight is never coated with icing sugar, but always starch. I don't know where the author had it either, but it is nowhere near being "very, very sweet." Hell, I can't even imagine what an American may consider as being too sweet! Source: Born and raised in Turkey.
- radicalbyte 9y agoThe stuff you get in the UK is disgusting, it's a sugary jelly with a very strong artificial rose flavour. Sticky sweet goo. I've had the proper stuff in Turkey and it's not sweet, it's not sticky or gooey. The flavour, at least of the stuff I had, was subtle.
- grenoire 9y agoSeeing the photo the author chose... If that's what he had, that's really not what lokum is.
- derefr 9y agoOddly, the only "proper" Turkish delight I've had, as a Canadian, I found in a British-sweets import shop. Not sure if it was British-made, mind you...
- danbolt 9y agoA chain of chocolate stores in Western Canada produces some form of it too. I remember enjoying the taste of it as a child, but I'm not sure how it would hold up nowadays.
- jongalloway2 9y agoI brought my kids home some Turkish delight from Istanbul and they absolutely devoured it. It was not sickly sweet and the flavors were wonderful. I think our favorite was rose - delicate and much more complex than the mass produced candies they were used to.
- thaumasiotes 9y ago
- slr555 9y agoHaters gonna hate. I love Turkish Delight. My wife had to travel to Turkey for work and frequently brought it back. I really like it. Actually in general, Turkish food is one of my favorite cuisines worldwide. I also like a lot of Indian sweets that many Americans find to sweet. No accounting for taste.
- lovich 9y agoIf you could name some of those I would like to try them. As an american interacting with immigrants and their food I've had a problem where everything they call desert tastes like a dinner item to me due to the lack of sugar. I can't imagine what too sweet for Americans could even be considering I happily ate nutella or pure sugar by the spoonful as a child
- makmanalp 9y agoA note is that sweet dessert (at least in Turkish Culture) is not meant to be consumed en-masse. You eat a whole packet of m&ms or reese's pieces, but you eat only one or two pieces of baklava. It's a few bites of sweet to sweeten your palate and then it's gone. Though I'm thinking of stuff like Baklava here, lokum is also eaten a few at a time, but it's supposed to be not too sweet, rather of a specific flavor to stay in your mouth for a while, like citrus, rose, melon, pistachio or pomegranate.
- jon_richards 9y agoI don't know the names of them, but a lot of Indian sweets are sugar-based (or milk- and sugar-based), with only a bit of flour and some mild spices/flavours added. It isn't necessarily that Indian sweets are "too sweet", it's that they taste like sugar ("Duh, that's why they're called sweets"). They often use much larger sugar crystals, which greatly reduces the sweetness (its a surface area thing) and use unrefined sugar or cane-juice to emphasize the other flavours of sugar. At the extreme, there's pea-sized sugar crystals (and sugar clusters held together by I-don't-know-what) that you get from Tamil Nadu temples: https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-dh7AQ9EPWJ4/VV-E-0p17LI/AAAAAAAASkc/YoYP0N4PbKA/s640/shirdi%2Bsugar%2Bballs.gif https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-dh7AQ9EPWJ4/VV-E-0p17LI/AAAAAAAAS... Western sweets by comparison almost always focus on a different flavour like chocolate, vanilla, nuts, fruits, mint, cinnamon, maple, etc (think of all the flavours of ice cream). Even Nerds, which are pretty much pure sugar, have malic acid to mimic the sour taste of fruit. There are western foods like marshmallows that are pretty flavourless though.
- Tokkemon 9y agoTurkish Delight is amazing, what are you talking about? Rose water?! It's amazing!!!
- mandigy 9y agoFood from other countries that we haven't tried before generally tastes weird. As an Englishman I found U.S chocolate (e.g. Hershey) and Indian desserts (e.g. jalebi) unpalatable. No doubt there exist similar assessments of British sweets and puddings! I'm sheepish to admit that Fry's Turkish Delight is not a favourite, but I do enjoy Baklava (a true delight from Turkey, imo). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFd0SP_ZiV8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFd0SP_ZiV8
- abritinthebay 9y agoHershey's is unpalatable though! Worst chocolate in the US :(
- Symbiote 9y agoHershey's contains butyric acid, which is the smell of vomit. My colleagues bring something sweet back whenever they travel, and it's usually gone by the end of the day. The Hershey's was the only thing still left a week later -- even the salty liquorice was eaten! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butyric_acid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butyric_acid
- Avshalom 9y agoYes, Hershey's chocolate tastes bad, however seeing as all dairy contains butyric acid and thus all milk chocolate: maybe lets not go around trying to draw an equivalence between Hershey's and vomit.
- abritinthebay 9y agoWhile true, Hershey's contains a lot more. That's why it tastes stronger. Why? We don't know, trade secret, but it's assumed the milk is lipolized somewhere in their process - as that would produce more of the acid.
- pbhjpbhj 9y ago
- ocschwar 9y agoUh, dude, this was written in the context of rationing and austerity. A kid whose had his sugar rationed is going to consider Turkish delight in a totally different way than a kid in 2017
- Veen 9y agoI agree, and so did the author of the article, who discusses it at some length.
- mitchty 9y agoI rather like it to be honest. Much like marzipan its not super sweet and having a variety is always a good thing. Unrelated story: I tried a keto diet for 2 months, all I remember is at the end of that two months I ate a piece of plain old whole bread. Tasted sweeter than any candy I remember. So yeah, maybe we eat too much sugar in america...
- coupdejarnac 9y agoThat's exactly how I felt after living in Asia for a year and returning to America to find all food tasting like candy.
- joenot443 9y agoYou didn't read the article, did you?
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- samirillian 9y agoThere is certainly a xenophobic strain in the Chronicles of Narnia, most evident in what is otherwise my favorite book in the series, "The horse and his boy." I can only think that to Lewis's ear, the word "Turkish" had a certain brutality to it that contrasted well with "delight" and paired well with Edmund's perdition.
- logingone 9y agoYou're really shoving a square peg into a round hole there. It was an exotic and expensive treat.
- samirillian 9y agoEnh, maybe. But a few counterpoints: 1. We can assume C.S. Lewis intended a lot. Don't confuse the ease of his style with careless choices. 2. Have you read The Horse and his Boy? C.S. Lewis specifically talks crap about food that sounds Arab. Like almond chicken. 3. Come on, "Turkish Delight"? It sounds like a kinky sexual position. "Turkish" has a strong association with fascism and brutality in--specifically upper-class--Western culture, (cf., Igby Goes Down, New York City Cops, Lawrence of Arabia).
- hordeallergy 9y agoHe didn't invent the name.
- samirillian 9y agoHe didn't invent most of the words he used. It would seem to me that most writing consists of two parts: 1.) choosing words from an existing register and 2.) putting them in order. But feel free to theorize that authors can only apply connotations to words that they invent.
- abritinthebay 9y agoFry's Turkish Delight is nasty sugary gloop, and is nothing like the real stuff (what Lewis was referring to) The real stuff is much more delicate, subtly sweet, and has a much nicer mouth feel - not to mention flavor. Rose water is one of those flavors you either like or dislike a lot. However it comes in other flavours! Various nuts, citrus, etc. very tasty.
- jcl 9y agoHeh... I knew this looked familiar. Per the note at the end of the article, it should probably be tagged "(2015)". Previous discussion under a slightly different title: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10686217 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10686217
- blincoln 9y agoWhen I was young, my parents described Turkish Delight as being basically Applets & Cotlets, and that sounds like an accurate description based on this article. Substitute rosewater for apple/apricot/whatever juice and you've got Turkish Delight. Am I missing something? At least in the northwestern US, Applets & Cotlets have been a thing for decades.
- Baeocystin 9y agoNo, that's pretty much it.
- coverband 9y agoThe origins of "Applets & Cotlets" is reported to be based on Turkish delight, with the company started by immigrants from Ottoman Empire, around early 1900s.
- oftenwrong 9y agoI am not a fan of packaged Turkish delight. It seems to always be terrible. When I was a child, my family would occasionally buy made-in-house Turkish delight from a small, family Turkish food store, which has long since closed, near where I lived, and it was different and better. It had a softer, gooey-er texture and more delicate, less sweet flavour. Rose is the most memorable flavour for me. I believe our original inspiration for buying it was, in fact, The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe. My mother and I tried making some myself a few years ago to reproduce that memory, but the result was fairly sub-par, although still better than the packaged versions.
- cowpewter 9y agoWhen I was a kid, there was a small flavored-popcorn-and-candy shop called Karmelkorn in our town. They made fresh Turkish Delight (along with popcorn, marzipan, and other candies) in the store, and it was always my favorite treat. They had the traditional rosewater along with some citrus flavors, and it was dusted in cornstarch, not sugar. It was just sweet enough, with a firm, but pleasingly squishy bite. I've tried the Cadbury chocolate-covered version, and a few packaged versions as an adult, and none of them are as good as we used to get from the Karmelkorn shop.
- chasil 9y agoIn the U.S., the TJ Maxx and Marshall's liquidation department stores often carry it in the winter. The most poignant comment from anyone to whom I have introduced it was "a flower shop just exploded in my mouth." I am partial to the rose flavor, but I am reaching the age where I must watch my sugar intake, so it is a rare indulgence. I'm surprised that (german grocer) Aldi doesn't carry it. They always have Turkish dried apricots, and a number of odd confections in the winter.
- makmanalp 9y agoI think it has a lot to do with context - I imagine candy with unusual flavors were probably not an everyday purchase 100 years ago, let alone something soft. That, plus the exotica of "Turkish" delight (since there was a lot of curiosity re: the Middle East back then) seems like it might have been why Lewis chose that. Roald Dahl has a great bit on going to buy candy as a kid in "Boy" (http://dhunter.weebly.com/uploads/2/9/5/8/2958381/roald_dahl_-_the_bicycle_and_the_sweet-shop_and_the_great_mouse_plot.pdf http://dhunter.weebly.com/uploads/2/9/5/8/2958381/roald_dahl...) - which makes it sound much more of a magical experience than the jaded way I get m&ms at the corner store today. An aside: not to be a snob, but the commonly found (especially in the UK) Fry's Turkish delight is kind of a bastardization, and I think the vacuum sealed airport kind is OK but doesn't really do it justice. If you happen to go to Istanbul at some point, drop by Haci Bekir, Divan, Cafer Erol, or one of the other myriad candy shops that have been at it for decades, sometimes centuries. "The Best" is very subjective, but I think all these will have good, fresh specimens. Or go to Pera Palace's cafe and have a Turkish coffee, which always comes with lokum on the side.
- boogiepoppu 9y agoWell Lewis was a genius after all.
- transitorykris 9y agoIn Canada we had the Big Turk chocolate bar by Nestle. It was a reasonably hard/chewy turkish delight covered in chocolate. Getting one of these as a child was akin to punishment. There were also the miniatures that old folk would put out, you'd expect to find caramel or nuts in the center, but nope, just horrors. Sometime in my late 20s I tried real turkish delight and enjoyed it. Sweet, but not unnecessarily so, with some interesting flavours, especially the floral ones. On one of my last visits to Canada I picked up a Big Turk again... and loved it.
- Eerie 9y agoIsraeli Turkish Delight is great. I always wash off the starch, though.
- jballanc 9y agoThe Turkish Delight in "The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe" was, for me, one of the first and clearest examples of how literature can project, even if unintentionally, a skewed view of a culture that bears little to no resemblance to reality. I remember a while back having a debate over dinner (and eventually dessert) with friends as to which European country has the best variety and overall quality of desserts. It struck me as funny, and a bit sad, that an American who relied only on popular culture and mainstream media would think the answer to that question was easy: French! Of course! Having had the opportunity to travel, work, and even live outside the US, I realize now just how wrong that view is! The variety of dessert foods in France pales in comparison to, say, Italy or Austria. Biased as I am, I argued that Turkish dessert cuisine was far above the rest, but of course all most people think of when they think of Turkish desserts is...Turkish Delight! Thanks, C.S.! ...If you're interested, some items to Google to understand what I mean: Fıstıklı Dolama, Cevizli Baklava, Maraş Dondurma, Güllaç, Su Muhallebi (for the rose water lovers), Tavuk Göğsü (don't read the ingredients until you try it, it's great!), Kazandibi, and my personal favorite Kaymaklı Künefe!
- kylehotchkiss 9y agoI remember getting a french breakfast in London and then eating what seemed like "black soggy bread". It was Boudin. Gotta translate those entrees BEFORE choosing them.
- pizzetta 9y agoPastry, I would guess Austria since they have Wieners --what we call "Danishes". which is confusing since for us in the US "wieners" are "Austrian" sausages... but in Vienna, they are again called Danish pastries (Danisher plunder?).
- walshemj 9y agoThat is because 1 when cs lewis wrote those stories sweets where on ration and 2 Turkish delight at the time was a common charismas treat in the UK.
- janwillemb 9y ago> Edmund’s willingness to put himself in the thrall of an evil witch in exchange for Turkish Delight makes him not only morally but gastronomically suspect. I disagree: it was enchanted Turkish Delight, which made the one eating it always craving for more, eventually eating himself to death if he'd get the chance.
- CurtMonash 9y agoPistachio flavored lokum -- i.e. Turkish Delight -- made with chestnut honey is good stuff. That said, after I had fun bargaining for some in the Spice Bazaar in Istanbul, I ate little of what I brought home. I still like chocolate better. :)
- Erwin 9y agoStrangely, "lokum" is a Danish synonym for toilet, deriving from the Latin "locus" (place). No other language have this meaning for the word that I know of -- it makes this discussion rather amusing.
- pluma 9y ago"Locus" is sometimes used in German, though it's considered fairly archaic.
- daxfohl 9y agoI always thought it was made out of turkey.
- daxfohl 9y agoWhy the downvote? I seriously thought it was made out of turkey! It sounded weird and thus all the more magical. N.B. I was better at math than I was at reading. Plus, American. (Turkey the bird, far more well known than Turkey the country here).
- jonah 9y agoIf you like Turkish Delight, you might want to try Gaz - a type of Persian Nougat - as well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaz_(candy) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaz_(candy) (Along with reading C.S. Lewis, we got to try and enjoy Turkish Delight and Gaz as kids - thanks to world-traveling grandparents.)
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- jackaroe78 9y agoEven after growing up and finding out what it really is, it still sounds pretty tasty.
- presidentender 9y agoAs children, we very much enjoyed the 88 miniseries, and so my brother asked my mother once for 'Turkish Delight.' She supplied instead a product called 'Aplets and Cotlets,' which I understand is Turkish Delight, as manufactured and consumed in North America. So we had a clear picture of what exactly Edmund was eating fairly early on.
- pbhjpbhj 9y agoI first encountered Turkish Delight through the Fry's product advertising - a sultry lady scantily dressed, as if from a harem, the product on a silver platter, a Bedouin looking fellow in flowing robes, he cuts the confection with a shining scimitar, "full of Eastern promise". Bleurgh, hated the stuff; enchanted by the advert though. I can't recall but I don't think I made a connection between that and the book, as a child I just read it as him being offered sweets by a stranger (something we'd been warned of specifically).
- Arananthi 9y agoHas no one ever heard of Aplets and Cotlets? Shit sells like hotcakes, and it's literally just Turkish Delight with an Americanized name. This author has no idea what he's on about.
- QuercusMax 9y agoNever heard of it before this thread. Google tells me it's a Washington State thing. Is it available outside of Washington?