4 ms·

It's probably on the basis of that one asshole, and the experiences of other people he knows. I personally know several people who have been taken advantage of

by dlytle 16y ago

It's probably on the basis of that one asshole, and the experiences of other people he knows. I personally know several people who have been taken advantage of by their professors, so I'm inclined to believe him. Also, "taken advantage of" is exactly the right term in my friends' cases. Both are classic Aspergers cases (actual Aspergers, not just an excuse for bad behavior), and their professors seem to be taking advantage of the trouble they have mounting an effective resistance.

deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
redrobot5050 16y ago
>Also, "taken advantage of" is exactly the right term in my friends' cases. Both are classic Aspergers cases (actual Aspergers, not just an excuse for bad behavior), and their professors seem to be taking advantage of the trouble they have mounting an effective resistance. That's just the real world calling, and their refusal or inability to answer. If they were in corporate america, a co-worker or middle manager would steal their work and take credit, or capitalize on their inability to resist additional assignments. If they were in a start-up, they'd be overburdened and then forced out, probably receiving the lowest equity of anyone and getting even less than out of the deal, because they didn't make any decisions. Its just a dog eat dog world out there, and if you can't say "No" or take credit for your achievements, you're going to get taken advantage of.
- joe_the_user 16y ago
  Maybe you're right but no matter how much bad behavior there is out there, it's still important to call people on the bad behavior you see.
  - redrobot5050 16y ago
    It is also bad behavior to fight somebody else's battles. They have to learn to stand up for themselves and say "No". Getting in between a manager and an employee when you're not on the org chart is a quick way to career wash out.
- csbrooks 16y ago
  >That's just the real world calling, and their refusal or inability to answer. If they were in corporate america, a co-worker or middle manager would steal their work and take credit, or capitalize on their inability to resist additional assignments. I've worked in corporate America for a while now, and I haven't seen managers steal credit for their workers work before. Generally, if you're a manager and you have someone you manage who is doing a great job and getting lots of stuff done, that reflects well on you as a manager too.
  - redrobot5050 16y ago
    It all depends on the corporate culture. When I worked in the nuclear industry, the culture was very sociopathic. New engineers were 4 to a cubicle. It was "your fault" if a 40- or 80-hour task was not completed on time because your manager let it sit on his desk for two weeks and gave it to you on the day of the deadline. I've also worked in places where engineers get the offices with windows, there are lunchtime tech talks, and managers try their best to prioritize work and then "get out of your way". So it all depends. The people who email Scott Adams (of Dilbert) their workplace horror stories are not [all] making them up. A "good" corporate culture in America is still atypical, IMHO.
nollidge 16y ago
I was a bit glib there and I'm sure you're right that the GP was speaking from experience. But it's also a useless comment to me (and likely all other HNers without relevant experience) because all it tells me is that some guy on the Internet thinks science is a terrible industry to work in. Why? What's the reasoning? What did he/she experience that led to that conclusion? The GP could have given me some insight, even a mere anecdote, to make me think, but given the sparse context, I think the only reasonable thing I can do is dismiss it as crankery or bitterness. As for your friends, who's to say that academic science is the culprit? There's assholes everywhere, and neither you, nor the GP has convinced me it's endemic to science research. As for my anecdote, I work in bioinformatics now. I've only just started, but so far my experience couldn't be more different.
- samd 16y ago
  Anecdotes are hardly evidence, but here are some articles that I've found agree with my experiences and the experiences of others I know. http://philip.greenspun.com/careers/women-in-science http://philip.greenspun.com/careers/women-in-science http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2008/06/18/seven-reasons-why-graduate-school-is-outdated/ http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2008/06/18/seven-reasons-why-g...

by dlytle 16y ago

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

redrobot5050 16y ago

>Also, "taken advantage of" is exactly the right term in my friends' cases. Both are classic Aspergers cases (actual Aspergers, not just an excuse for bad behavior), and their professors seem to be taking advantage of the trouble they have mounting an effective resistance. That's just the real world calling, and their refusal or inability to answer. If they were in corporate america, a co-worker or middle manager would steal their work and take credit, or capitalize on their inability to resist additional assignments. If they were in a start-up, they'd be overburdened and then forced out, probably receiving the lowest equity of anyone and getting even less than out of the deal, because they didn't make any decisions. Its just a dog eat dog world out there, and if you can't say "No" or take credit for your achievements, you're going to get taken advantage of.

joe_the_user 16y ago
Maybe you're right but no matter how much bad behavior there is out there, it's still important to call people on the bad behavior you see.
- redrobot5050 16y ago
  It is also bad behavior to fight somebody else's battles. They have to learn to stand up for themselves and say "No". Getting in between a manager and an employee when you're not on the org chart is a quick way to career wash out.
csbrooks 16y ago
>That's just the real world calling, and their refusal or inability to answer. If they were in corporate america, a co-worker or middle manager would steal their work and take credit, or capitalize on their inability to resist additional assignments. I've worked in corporate America for a while now, and I haven't seen managers steal credit for their workers work before. Generally, if you're a manager and you have someone you manage who is doing a great job and getting lots of stuff done, that reflects well on you as a manager too.
- redrobot5050 16y ago
  It all depends on the corporate culture. When I worked in the nuclear industry, the culture was very sociopathic. New engineers were 4 to a cubicle. It was "your fault" if a 40- or 80-hour task was not completed on time because your manager let it sit on his desk for two weeks and gave it to you on the day of the deadline. I've also worked in places where engineers get the offices with windows, there are lunchtime tech talks, and managers try their best to prioritize work and then "get out of your way". So it all depends. The people who email Scott Adams (of Dilbert) their workplace horror stories are not [all] making them up. A "good" corporate culture in America is still atypical, IMHO.

nollidge 16y ago

I was a bit glib there and I'm sure you're right that the GP was speaking from experience. But it's also a useless comment to me (and likely all other HNers without relevant experience) because all it tells me is that some guy on the Internet thinks science is a terrible industry to work in. Why? What's the reasoning? What did he/she experience that led to that conclusion? The GP could have given me some insight, even a mere anecdote, to make me think, but given the sparse context, I think the only reasonable thing I can do is dismiss it as crankery or bitterness. As for your friends, who's to say that academic science is the culprit? There's assholes everywhere, and neither you, nor the GP has convinced me it's endemic to science research. As for my anecdote, I work in bioinformatics now. I've only just started, but so far my experience couldn't be more different.

samd 16y ago
Anecdotes are hardly evidence, but here are some articles that I've found agree with my experiences and the experiences of others I know. http://philip.greenspun.com/careers/women-in-science http://philip.greenspun.com/careers/women-in-science http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2008/06/18/seven-reasons-why-graduate-school-is-outdated/ http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2008/06/18/seven-reasons-why-g...