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The Liver: A ‘Blob’ That Runs the Body
- hjm3 9y agoLove the sponsored content food items
- austinpray 9y agoThat definitely stood out to me.
- imsd 9y agoI thought it was odd as well, but I'm not sure that it's sponsored? From my understanding, FTC guidelines necessitate that publications disclose sponsored placements and I imagine The New York Times would be at the forefront of these requirements ... Or am I mistaking?
- jeffdavis 9y agoThe NYT content falls well within "free speech" and any attempt to constrain it would backfire horribly regardless of what the laws or regulations say. Smallet outlets would be a better target, but still likely to backfire.
- medymed 9y agoGreat article, but 'runs the body' is a bit overkill. If you want to endanger your personal safety, try convincing a nephrologist that the liver runs the body.
- gozur88 9y agoOr a cardiologist. Turns out you need pretty much everything in there.
- pavel_lishin 9y agoAnd yet, according to my wife's surgeon, gall bladder removal surgery is the most common surgery in America. (Though he might be biased.) You don't appear to need your appendix. You can live fine with one kidney, or half a liver. I think you can get by with one lung. I've had friends who've had huge portions of their digestive tract removed. I realize that that just speaks to the body's generally robust build, and its redundancy, but you can probably remove more organs from a human body and have it keep running than random parts from under a car's hood.
- d33 9y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemispherectomy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemispherectomy
- agentgt 9y agoThe liver storing ability to store glycogen is one of the reasons many fitness enthusiasts would avoid (or not) fructose. From what I have heard fructose often gets broken down in the liver and thus often gets stored there (I'm probably missing a whole bunch here so assume I am wrong). Because of this various athletes and bodybuilders would use fructose to either gain weight or rapidly fill carb stores but only would do so sparingly (ie during carb refilling during a ketogenic diet).
- ibejoeb 9y agoRobert Lustig does a good talk about sugar metabolism in "Sugar: The Bitter Truth": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM Also, "The Trouble with Fructose": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yh4JBXaKnmA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yh4JBXaKnmA Despite the baity titles, it's a good talk with real biochemistry. Edit: better video added up top
- agumonkey 9y agoLustig is not a joke, but I'd love to have other wise point of view on the matter.
- deegles 9y agoWhat would this other point of view show? I don't see how there can be alternative opinions on this, metabolism isn't that different between humans. I guess you could argue that he didn't reach the correct conclusion, but that's different point.
- wutbrodo 9y agoGoogling 'Lustig criticism' gives you a good place to start. Though with nutritional science, everything is so far from consensus (and when there is a consensus, it's 20 years behind the science) that you should treat this as a jumping-off point to read the literature instead of an authoritative rebuttal. http://www.alanaragonblog.com/2010/01/29/the-bitter-truth-about-fructose-alarmism/ http://www.alanaragonblog.com/2010/01/29/the-bitter-truth-ab... There's a section about halfway down where he discusses Lustig's claims that things like HFCS are metabolized differently and negatively.
- benevol 9y ago> Scientists hope that the new insights into liver development and performance will yield novel therapies for the more than 100 disorders that afflict the organ, many of which are on the rise worldwide, in concert with soaring rates of obesity and diabetes. No need to wait, an excellent book explains how to easily clean your liver: http://www.ener-chi.com/books/the-amazing-liver-gallbladder-flush http://www.ener-chi.com/books/the-amazing-liver-gallbladder-... The thing is you can literally see all the things that have been jamming your liver for years, as they're being "washed" out when you go to the toiled - very impressive. Keep in mind that a liver that is jammed does not fully clean your blood. If your blood is not clean, it will eventually cause trouble all over your body.
- treehau5 9y agohttps://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/flushes.html https://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/flushes.h...
- crpatino 9y agoDownvotes are for signaling failure to honour conversation protocol, no disagreement of opinion. You guys shoud know better. If you want to argue that liver cleansing is a quack, do so in a comment. Better yet, ignore the parent and let it fall to the bottom of the conversation.
- chc 9y agoThat is not accurate. Downvotes are for comments that negatively contribute to the conversation. One way a comment can negatively contribute is by failing to honor protocol, but it is not the only way. Even simply extraneous comments like lazy jokes probably should be and conventially are downvoted on Hacker News. Promoting pseudoscience definitely doesn't seem like a very good contribution to me.
- crpatino 9y agoThen you should argue against it, and let the best argument win. Last time I checked, Chc was not the infallible God of Truth and Goodness. Maybe it is not a good contribution, but it is not for you alone to tell.
- grw_ 9y agoUberLivers anyone? I fear organ donation is scheduled for disruption. I found this programme discussing issues around social media donor-matching campaigns quite interesting- http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08nq6fh http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08nq6fh
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- mrfusion 9y agoWhat a fascinating organ! I never realized the liver only holds 400 calories. I always figured it was a few thousand. (I just looked it up) So is your body always burning fat or does the liver glycogen have to be depleted first? Does the liver deplete every night when you're sleeping? I really don't have a great mental model of this stuff. Is it true that you need to reach high insulin levels before the body starts storing fat?
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- ghostbrainalpha 9y agoFor most people the liver does deplete throughout the night, which is why early morning "fasted cardio" is popular for burning fat. But as the food in your stomach processes the liver is continually getting more calories. So if you eat a huge meal right before going to bed its possible to never switch to fat burning.
- Mtntk 9y ago>But as the food in your stomach processes the liver is continually getting more calories. So if you eat a huge meal right before going to bed its possible to never switch to fat burning. Probably that's because some people advice eat pasta a night before your sports event. To have some calories in your body to burn in the morning until first food stop.
- bluetwo 9y agoAnyone take Milk Thistle? It is supposed to help the liver, especially if it has been damaged, say by years of moderate drinking. Asking for a friend.
- sov 9y agoI'm not sure if there's been much of a more recent update to this in the past 8 or so years, but my recollection of Milk Thistle studies is that they're largely ineffective for liver disease and marginally effective for acute hepatitis.
- scottLobster 9y agoI'm no expert, but I looked into this issue for my mom some years ago (had cancer on her liver) and what you're looking for specifically is Silymarin, the ingredient in Milk Thistle that actually has the protective benefits. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21466434 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21466434 The issue with raw Milk Thistle supplements is that it's a lower dose of Silymarin as you're just getting the plant, you'd want "Milk Thistle Extract", which is concentrated Silymarin. As with all supplements though, read the label and research the brands you buy. Counterfeit products are rampant in the industry, as is inconsistent dosing. Mayoclinic has some dosing reccomendations: http://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/milk-thistle/dosing/hrb-20059806 http://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/milk-thistle/dos...
- dredmorbius 9y agoInteresting recent stories out of Santa Cruz and mushroom poisoning (generally: hepotoxic), treated with Silymarin. Well, 2014 recent: http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2014/02/most_dangerous_mushroom_death_cap_is_spreading_but_poisoning_can_be_treated.html http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_exa...
- Mc_Big_G 9y agoI like examine.com's analysis of supplements: https://examine.com/supplements/milk-thistle/ https://examine.com/supplements/milk-thistle/
- mhalle 9y agoThe flip side to the liver's amazing duties in the body is the catastrophic impact on health when it fails. A failed liver takes out basically every body system. When the liver can't break down bilirubin, you get jaundice and itch all over. When the liver becomes cirrhotic, blood can't move through it, increasing pressure in the portal vein and precipitating life-threatening bleeds in the stomach and esophagus. For an extra bonus, clotting factors are manufactured in the liver, so these bleeds can be uncontrolled. The spleen enlarges and gobbles up white blood cells, compromising immunity. Ammonia and other yet not fully understood toxins that the liver can't filter cross the blood-brain barrier and cause hepatic encephalopathy, ranging from brain fog to coma. Liver disease is also tied to hepatorenal syndrome (kidney failure) and hepatopulmonary syndrome (lung damage), both of which can be sudden and fatal. Ascites (retention of fluid) also accompanies cirrhosis, often requiring paracentesis, which in turn is correlated with sepsis that the compromised immune system can't fight (also often fatal). Low Vitamin D in cirrhotic patients leads to osteoporosis, including vertebral fractures. Inability to process protein leads to muscle wasting and weight loss, reducing strength and immunity. And finally, cirrhosis is correlated with an increased risk of liver cancer. The cure for any of these conditions? Transplant, if you're lucky and the other systems aren't too badly damaged. Everything else is just holding on. And to get a transplant? You have to be sick enough and sufficiently close to death that you're eligible, but strong enough to survive major surgery. No insurance in the US? They won't even assess you. A liver transplant saved my life three years ago. I've lived this list of symptoms. My debt to the universe is to educate when possible, to console when necessary.
- tr1ck5t3r 9y agoLiver - Latin for life. Doctors used to say, you are what you eat, how many have eaten a lb of Ox liver in a sitting? Hint - Its better than Red Bull!
- JumpCrisscross 9y ago> No insurance in the US? They won't even assess you. Do you have a source that goes into the reasoning behind this? I could guess, but I'd prefer to give the subject the respect it deserves.
- snakeanus 9y ago"In order to access our website, your browser must accept cookies from NYTimes.com" Why would they need that?
- codyb 9y agoTo prevent you from bypassing their paywalls by using private tabs.
- alfon 9y agoSome case studies that I find interesting: Cirrhosis presenting as Parkinsonism - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2771969/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2771969/ Reversal of parkinsonism following liver transplantation. - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12578945 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12578945
- cbanek 9y agoLiver failure is a big thing, but thankfully we have a drug for curing HepC now, which uncured causes liver damage. Liver regeneration is also fantastically interesting. If only we could figure out how to trigger that regeneration when the liver is too damaged. I'm reminded of Star Trek 4, where McCoy gives an old woman what looks like a candy, then you see her later on talking about how she grew a new kidney.
- mhalle 9y agoThe HepC drugs are remarkable. They also open new opportunities for transplanting HepC positive livers into HepC positive patients (expanding the donor pool), then zapping it post transplant. But while HepC may be one of the first viral infections we can cure, non-alcoholic fatty liver disease is on the rise, even in young people. And this population is on average less motivated to make lifestyle changes that can stop or slow the disease.
- pm90 9y ago> And this population is on average less motivated to make lifestyle changes that can stop or slow the disease. Hmmm, how do you mean? We've seen a lot of people try to change their diets and lifestyle to be more healthy. Anecdotally, all my coworkers are very diligent, or at least mindful, about eating healthy (of course they splurge when going out, but on a daily basis they try and stick to healthy food). Granted most of my coworkers are younger millennials, but I think a fitness/healthy eating lifestyle has permeated US society.
- mhalle 9y agoLet me try and be more precise. Non-alcoholic fatty liver disease is strongly correlated with obesity. Obesity is a public health problem that is getting worse, not better. It is tied to diet and lifestyle that cannot quickly be corrected, even among highly motivated individuals. Compound that with the fact that fatty liver disease (or any liver disease) will probably not be detected before symptoms emerge that indicate actual damage to the liver has occurred. It's impossible to quickly become un-obese, even for the motivated patient. This puts these patients at risk for advancing liver disease. Contrast that with HepC. It can be detected before overt symptoms of liver disease sets in. It can be cured in as little as eight weeks. The cure itself doesn't require any lifestyle change (though IV drug users need to prevent re-infection, and insurance companies in the US won't give you a second chance). And the cure has been shown to allow the liver to heal. Your co-workers aren't the at-risk population.
- justzisguyuknow 9y ago> Others have found that signals from the liver may help dictate our dietary choices, particularly our cravings for sweets, like a ripe peach or a tall glass of Newman’s Own Virgin Limeade — which our local supermarket chain has, to our personal devastation, suddenly stopped selling, so please, liver, get a grip. What the heck is that doing in an otherwise (seemingly) scientific article?
- fencepost 9y ago>> Newman's Own Virgin Limeade > What the heck is that doing in an otherwise (seemingly) scientific article? Particularly since both Limeade and sugar/simple syrup are easy to make. Syrup: 2c sugar/1c water, heat until clear, cover, cool, store in a squeeze bottle. Limeade: 10% fresh squeezed lime juice, sugar syrup to taste but probably no more than 10%, 80% water. Depending on size & squeezer, figure maybe 1/2 oz of juice per lime. It's even easy to make single glasses.
- known 9y agoCheck https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycemic_index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycemic_index