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They say $40k is the median salary for new developers in Canada, this is much lower than I've observed and it makes me question the quality of the entire datase

They say $40k is the median salary for new developers in Canada, this is much lower than I've observed and it makes me question the quality of the entire dataset. Are these really professional software developers who answered the survey?

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
d4mi3n 9y ago
From what I've been told by Canadian co-workers, software salaries in the country are _significantly_ less for equivalent work compared to the US. Something 1/2 to 2/3 as much.
- holydude 9y ago
  Which is not surprising is it. Canada is not the US even if the people speak the same language. You cant really talk about equivalent work if the settings are different for people and entire industries.
- lr4444lr 9y ago
  I don't know how big the effect would be, but surely that is perhaps skewed by the NYC/Silicon Valley salary premium for their real estate markets?
zzalpha 9y ago
I agree, that number is absurdly low. I made more than that during an internship back in the early 2000s...
- scj 9y ago
  The 2008 recession knocked salaries down in Canada.
  - bobabooey02 9y ago
    Not just in Canada. I'm about to graduate in the third largest city in my state, and I can only find jobs that pay around $35k/yr. The fact is that most new or good paying jobs are being concentrated to only a few areas of the country. They form economic bubbles that are insulated from the fact that most of the country is seeing a decline in quality of life due to lower wages, higher costs, and less worker leverage. This economic ignorance is a big reason why big cities don't understand the rise of Trump.
    - kasey_junk 9y ago
      The third largest city in a given state could be anything from a million people to 30k people. I wouldn't expect a town of 30k (or even 100k) to have that many jobs for developers as it's a fairly specialized industry. 50 years ago you wouldn't find actuarials or design engineers in small towns either.
      - bobabooey02 9y ago
        My point still stands. People In this thread are talking like $40k/yr salaries are unheard of, yet aren't acknowledging that the economy of the high growth cities is nothing like the rest of the country.
        kasey_junk 9y ago
        But if there is 1 job in a 30k town and 100k in a city of 2 million, then the salary of that 1 job doesn't matter much for an average salary calculation. For the profession of software engineer, most of the jobs are in the higher salary bands there should have an outside impact on the average calculations.
    - rootusrootus 9y ago
      I think it is pretty pointless to make nationwide comparisons. For example, I looked and found a level 1 Software Engineer opening in Kansas City for 50K. That actually seems pretty good -- the median house price there is 120K. Here in Portland it's 345K, and entry level engineers aren't getting 3x the salary. More like 80K or so. This actually sounds kinda like a good reason for moving to the midwest, assuming you like everything else about it there.
caseysoftware 9y ago
I believe these are mostly brand new grads, so salaries would be lower. It also explains the extremely short term thinking - free lunch vs retirement - of the entire data set.
uiri 9y ago
The salaries for the US also look weird to me. Canadian new grads tend towards $60-70k with larger American companies paying closer to $80-90k in the same location. My sampling is heavily biased towards Ontario. I expect Greater Vancouver to be similar but perhaps the rest of Western Canada, along with Quebec and the maritimes are dragging the average down.
- dron57 9y ago
  Alberta pays about the same. This is still a long shot from the US and is a major factor why we're always gonna be stuck with a brain drain to the US.
- sotojuan 9y ago
  The US is not Silicon Valley or NYC. Between the coasts, a lot of developers get <$70k per year salaries. Maybe it's the same for Canada?
Khao 9y ago
It's $40k USD which means it's at least $50k CAD. It seems about right for recent graduates with less than 2 years experience. I'm in Montreal btw.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

d4mi3n 9y ago

From what I've been told by Canadian co-workers, software salaries in the country are _significantly_ less for equivalent work compared to the US. Something 1/2 to 2/3 as much.

holydude 9y ago
Which is not surprising is it. Canada is not the US even if the people speak the same language. You cant really talk about equivalent work if the settings are different for people and entire industries.
lr4444lr 9y ago
I don't know how big the effect would be, but surely that is perhaps skewed by the NYC/Silicon Valley salary premium for their real estate markets?

zzalpha 9y ago

I agree, that number is absurdly low. I made more than that during an internship back in the early 2000s...

scj 9y ago
The 2008 recession knocked salaries down in Canada.
- bobabooey02 9y ago
  Not just in Canada. I'm about to graduate in the third largest city in my state, and I can only find jobs that pay around $35k/yr. The fact is that most new or good paying jobs are being concentrated to only a few areas of the country. They form economic bubbles that are insulated from the fact that most of the country is seeing a decline in quality of life due to lower wages, higher costs, and less worker leverage. This economic ignorance is a big reason why big cities don't understand the rise of Trump.
  - kasey_junk 9y ago
    The third largest city in a given state could be anything from a million people to 30k people. I wouldn't expect a town of 30k (or even 100k) to have that many jobs for developers as it's a fairly specialized industry. 50 years ago you wouldn't find actuarials or design engineers in small towns either.
    - bobabooey02 9y ago
      My point still stands. People In this thread are talking like $40k/yr salaries are unheard of, yet aren't acknowledging that the economy of the high growth cities is nothing like the rest of the country.
      - kasey_junk 9y ago
        But if there is 1 job in a 30k town and 100k in a city of 2 million, then the salary of that 1 job doesn't matter much for an average salary calculation. For the profession of software engineer, most of the jobs are in the higher salary bands there should have an outside impact on the average calculations.
  - rootusrootus 9y ago
    I think it is pretty pointless to make nationwide comparisons. For example, I looked and found a level 1 Software Engineer opening in Kansas City for 50K. That actually seems pretty good -- the median house price there is 120K. Here in Portland it's 345K, and entry level engineers aren't getting 3x the salary. More like 80K or so. This actually sounds kinda like a good reason for moving to the midwest, assuming you like everything else about it there.

caseysoftware 9y ago

I believe these are mostly brand new grads, so salaries would be lower. It also explains the extremely short term thinking - free lunch vs retirement - of the entire data set.

uiri 9y ago

The salaries for the US also look weird to me. Canadian new grads tend towards $60-70k with larger American companies paying closer to $80-90k in the same location. My sampling is heavily biased towards Ontario. I expect Greater Vancouver to be similar but perhaps the rest of Western Canada, along with Quebec and the maritimes are dragging the average down.

dron57 9y ago
Alberta pays about the same. This is still a long shot from the US and is a major factor why we're always gonna be stuck with a brain drain to the US.
sotojuan 9y ago
The US is not Silicon Valley or NYC. Between the coasts, a lot of developers get <$70k per year salaries. Maybe it's the same for Canada?

Khao 9y ago

It's $40k USD which means it's at least $50k CAD. It seems about right for recent graduates with less than 2 years experience. I'm in Montreal btw.