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What's with all the negativity around here? It's easy to look at a product, have several quick gut reactions, and then simply write it off. For all the open-min

by huangm 16y ago

What's with all the negativity around here? It's easy to look at a product, have several quick gut reactions, and then simply write it off. For all the open-minded-ness that the HN community prides itself on, it certainly doesn't seem to be showing through in the comments here so far. In my opinion, Quora deserves more careful consideration and suspension of judgment for a variety of reasons: 1. Quality of community - Quora has managed to assemble an incredibly high quality set of founders, VCs, angels, hackers as extremely active members of the community. These are probably some of the busiest and hardest to engage and please people, and yet Quora has been able to elicit extremely candid and detailed responses from them about topics unseen anywhere else. The breadth and depth of information in some of these posts dwarf all the random Mixergy, Founders At Work, etc interviews seen here on HN. For one example, search for answers by Reid Hoffman, cofounder of PayPal and LinkedIn. 2. Amazing UI/UX design. There are so many clever small details to the user experience that it is impossible to really understand without actually getting your hands dirty and trying the product. 3. Pedigree - Cofounders Adam D'Angelo and Charlie Cheever were former CTO/VP Engineering and Head of Connect/Platform at Facebook, respectively. They've managed to secure a massive investment at a huge valuation from a very highly-regarded VC firm - before launch. Regardless of how much confidence you put in these signals, they are meaningful enough to warrant some suspension of judgment. 4. No one cares that you won't connect with Facebook or Twitter. Most people aren't like you. And if you really are interested in "building things people want," you're going to have to come to terms with the fact that this is the direction the web is moving in. I don't like Facebook's cavalier attitude toward privacy, but I'm willing to connect to Quora to see a great product and community in action. The potential for learning greatly outweighs any philosophical stance for me. Obviously, there are a lot of unstated assumptions underlying these points, so I'll add the caveat that if none of the above appeals to your sense of curiosity, then maybe Quora really isn't for you. But I just wanted to balance all the negative comments so that someone that would enjoy Quora doesn't get turned off by all the "meh".

plinkplonk 16y ago
" No one cares that you won't connect with Facebook or Twitter. Most people aren't like you. And if you really are interested in "building things people want," you're going to have to come to terms with the fact that this is the direction the web is moving in. I don't like Facebook's cavalier attitude toward privacy, but I'm willing to connect to Quora to see a great product and community in action. " In other words you don't mind using Facebook or Twitter to log onto Quora and you want to slag people who do and want them to have to "come to terms" with your attitude. Way to go. If "no one cares" why are you making such a song and dance about it here? The rest of your arguments exhibit appeal to authority than any compelling rationale. "The breadth and depth of information in some of these posts dwarf all the random Mixergy, Founders At Work, etc interviews seen here on HN. For one example, search for answers by Reid Hoffman, cofounder of PayPal and LinkedIn" Wow All of them!! Amazing ! Why didn't you throw in Wikipedia and the sum total of business knowledge accumulated by mankind while you are at it? Hyperbole anyone?. " Amazing UI/UX design. There are so many clever small details to the user experience that it is impossible to really understand without actually getting your hands dirty and trying the product." In other words you don't want to point out anything specifically amazing. Only you "really understand" the genius and anyone who disagrees on something even peripherally related is in the wrong and "close minded". Your gut reaction about the UI which can't be articulated is evidence of depth of perception , but when other people have gut reactions to method of registering, it is to be dismissed. Sheesh! "Pedigree - Cofounders Adam D'Angelo and Charlie Cheever were former CTO/VP Engineering and Head of Connect/Platform at Facebook, respectively. They've managed to secure a massive investment at a huge valuation from a very highly-regarded VC firm - before launch." None of this has anything to do with eventual success or failure of a product or startup. But you cover your tracks nicely with the "regardless of what you think of such signals, I am right anyway" bit
- huangm 16y ago
  My points above are not meant to convince you that Quora is good, but that it is worth checking out. It was in response to comments like 'I saw connect with FB and bounced.' Appeals to authority and hyperbole are rhetorical devices used to accomplish a goal, which here, is to convince people who are reading all the "meh" comments to give Quora a legitimate look. It's interesting that you feel the need to crusade against a pretty harmless opinion post. "In other words you don't mind using Facebook or Twitter to log onto Quora and you want to slag people who do and want them to have to "come to terms" with your attitude. Way to go. If "no one cares" why are you making such a song and dance about it here?" No. The fact that lots of people don't mind connecting with Facebook and Twitter means that if you want to build products for those people, you have to come to terms with that. And like I said in the paragraph right below, if that doesn't resonate with you, then feel free to ignore it. It's OK if you're not building stuff for "normals".
  - plinkplonk 16y ago
    "Appeals to authority and hyperbole are rhetorical devices used to accomplish a goal ... " I rest my case.
whakojacko 16y ago
I completely agree. Most people dont really care about logging in with Facebook/Twitter. For the HN crowd, you can disconnect your related FB/twitter profile after you register if you want.
timr 16y ago
Eh. None of your points move me. In particular: "Quora has managed to assemble an incredibly high quality set of founders, VCs, angels, hackers as extremely active members of the community." Anyone who has been around HN or Reddit for a while will tell you that the hard part is maintaining an intelligent level of dialogue, in the face of the massive crowd of mouth-breathers that come with open adoption. It remains to be seen what will happen to Quora's signal-to-noise ratio if it becomes popular. And if it doesn't become popular, the value is a huge question. "Cofounders Adam D'Angelo and Charlie Cheever were former CTO/VP Engineering and Head of Connect/Platform at Facebook, respectively. They've managed to secure a massive investment at a huge valuation from a very highly-regarded VC firm - before launch." This is practically a truism. In any case, it's not as informative a signal as it sounds -- people with successful pedigrees have an easier time raising money. It's hard to disambiguate this effect from the promise of the product itself. " No one cares that you won't connect with Facebook or Twitter. Most people aren't like you." Indeed. I am far more likely than the average person to try out a new service, if it's useful. Yet, with Quora, I am not compelled. I have no need for the service it provides.
- huangm 16y ago
  Obviously, there are a lot of unstated assumptions underlying these points, so I'll add the caveat that if none of the above appeals to your sense of curiosity, then maybe Quora really isn't for you. But I just wanted to balance all the negative comments so that someone that would enjoy Quora doesn't get turned off by all the "meh".
  - timr 16y ago
    Fair enough, but I think the negative comments to which you are reacting are a backlash against a company that's already quite well-hyped (at least in the Valley). In other words, those comments are the balance -- to a tidal wave of Valley echo-chamber publicity.

by huangm 16y ago

plinkplonk 16y ago

" No one cares that you won't connect with Facebook or Twitter. Most people aren't like you. And if you really are interested in "building things people want," you're going to have to come to terms with the fact that this is the direction the web is moving in. I don't like Facebook's cavalier attitude toward privacy, but I'm willing to connect to Quora to see a great product and community in action. " In other words you don't mind using Facebook or Twitter to log onto Quora and you want to slag people who do and want them to have to "come to terms" with your attitude. Way to go. If "no one cares" why are you making such a song and dance about it here? The rest of your arguments exhibit appeal to authority than any compelling rationale. "The breadth and depth of information in some of these posts dwarf all the random Mixergy, Founders At Work, etc interviews seen here on HN. For one example, search for answers by Reid Hoffman, cofounder of PayPal and LinkedIn" Wow All of them!! Amazing ! Why didn't you throw in Wikipedia and the sum total of business knowledge accumulated by mankind while you are at it? Hyperbole anyone?. " Amazing UI/UX design. There are so many clever small details to the user experience that it is impossible to really understand without actually getting your hands dirty and trying the product." In other words you don't want to point out anything specifically amazing. Only you "really understand" the genius and anyone who disagrees on something even peripherally related is in the wrong and "close minded". Your gut reaction about the UI which can't be articulated is evidence of depth of perception , but when other people have gut reactions to method of registering, it is to be dismissed. Sheesh! "Pedigree - Cofounders Adam D'Angelo and Charlie Cheever were former CTO/VP Engineering and Head of Connect/Platform at Facebook, respectively. They've managed to secure a massive investment at a huge valuation from a very highly-regarded VC firm - before launch." None of this has anything to do with eventual success or failure of a product or startup. But you cover your tracks nicely with the "regardless of what you think of such signals, I am right anyway" bit

huangm 16y ago
My points above are not meant to convince you that Quora is good, but that it is worth checking out. It was in response to comments like 'I saw connect with FB and bounced.' Appeals to authority and hyperbole are rhetorical devices used to accomplish a goal, which here, is to convince people who are reading all the "meh" comments to give Quora a legitimate look. It's interesting that you feel the need to crusade against a pretty harmless opinion post. "In other words you don't mind using Facebook or Twitter to log onto Quora and you want to slag people who do and want them to have to "come to terms" with your attitude. Way to go. If "no one cares" why are you making such a song and dance about it here?" No. The fact that lots of people don't mind connecting with Facebook and Twitter means that if you want to build products for those people, you have to come to terms with that. And like I said in the paragraph right below, if that doesn't resonate with you, then feel free to ignore it. It's OK if you're not building stuff for "normals".
- plinkplonk 16y ago
  "Appeals to authority and hyperbole are rhetorical devices used to accomplish a goal ... " I rest my case.

whakojacko 16y ago

I completely agree. Most people dont really care about logging in with Facebook/Twitter. For the HN crowd, you can disconnect your related FB/twitter profile after you register if you want.

timr 16y ago

Eh. None of your points move me. In particular: "Quora has managed to assemble an incredibly high quality set of founders, VCs, angels, hackers as extremely active members of the community." Anyone who has been around HN or Reddit for a while will tell you that the hard part is maintaining an intelligent level of dialogue, in the face of the massive crowd of mouth-breathers that come with open adoption. It remains to be seen what will happen to Quora's signal-to-noise ratio if it becomes popular. And if it doesn't become popular, the value is a huge question. "Cofounders Adam D'Angelo and Charlie Cheever were former CTO/VP Engineering and Head of Connect/Platform at Facebook, respectively. They've managed to secure a massive investment at a huge valuation from a very highly-regarded VC firm - before launch." This is practically a truism. In any case, it's not as informative a signal as it sounds -- people with successful pedigrees have an easier time raising money. It's hard to disambiguate this effect from the promise of the product itself. " No one cares that you won't connect with Facebook or Twitter. Most people aren't like you." Indeed. I am far more likely than the average person to try out a new service, if it's useful. Yet, with Quora, I am not compelled. I have no need for the service it provides.

huangm 16y ago
Obviously, there are a lot of unstated assumptions underlying these points, so I'll add the caveat that if none of the above appeals to your sense of curiosity, then maybe Quora really isn't for you. But I just wanted to balance all the negative comments so that someone that would enjoy Quora doesn't get turned off by all the "meh".
- timr 16y ago
  Fair enough, but I think the negative comments to which you are reacting are a backlash against a company that's already quite well-hyped (at least in the Valley). In other words, those comments are the balance -- to a tidal wave of Valley echo-chamber publicity.