10 ms·

These are hilarious. I use audio software a lot, and it is amazing how something which seems quite simple in concept, such as a circular volume button, can be

These are hilarious. I use audio software a lot, and it is amazing how something which seems quite simple in concept, such as a circular volume button, can be so differently implemented via UX. Every time I see a knob style button on any of my audio plugins UI, I have to think: * Will the point at which I touch/click on the knob set the knob value to that position, or will it simply be the starting anchor at which I start moving the knob? * Does this knob work by sliding up/down or in a circular fashion? Or accept both ways? * How far away, or close to the centre, is the active 'hot spot' that allow me to control this knob? * Does the knob dynamically display the value as I spin it? If so, where does it show that value and am I inadvertently blocking the display with my finger/cursor? * Does the knob have the concept of velocity, whereby I can quickly spin it to the approximate value I want, then make tiny incremental adjustments to get the sound 'just right'? All these tend to break the "don't think, just do" concept of a skeuomorphic interface.

mark242 9y ago
Volume is a percentage, and a very analog control. The idea that you would have to have a round knob to twist on a computer screen is ridiculous, almost like some imaginary need for a specific shutter button to press to take a photo on a phone (just touch the screen!). It's a one-dimensional value, make it a one-dimensional control. Slider. Done.
- Sharlin 9y ago
  Or a UI control mimicking an old-style rotary dial in a phone app. (Although to be fair, the rotary dial in old phones was terrible UX brought about by a purely technical design decision - on the other hand a physical volume dial in a real amplifier is a pretty intuitive control.)
- throwaway899 9y ago
  To be honest, I prefer the physical shutter button over tapping my screen on my phone when taking pictures.
  - vkjv 9y ago
    I don't believe the parent meant a physical shutter button, but a specific area on screen designated as the shutter button instead of the much easier, "anywhere".
    - SAI_Peregrinus 9y ago
      Well, having "anywhere" be the shutter button means tap to focus won't work.
  - abruzzi 9y ago
    Especially since screen tapping could be registering a "refocus to this point" action. Also since camera phones have no viewfinder, I use the screen to compose my shot. So to avoid obscuring what I am going to take a picture of, I keep my hand clear of the screen most of the time. That makes the act of triggering the shutter a more visible and deliberate act than just pushing a button that my finger is already touching. These probably don't matter to most people but are fairly frustrating to me. (the fact that I almost always shoot landscape, not portrait, may be the cause of the discomfort for me, since it changes my hold on my phone to something more like the hold on a camera.)
    - ferongr 9y ago
      With most sensors having a 4:3 aspect ratio and smartphone displays having a 16:9 (or wider) AR, there is no need to block the image being composed with any fingers. The blank areas are filled with all relevant controls and a virtual shutter release button.
  - ChristianGeek 9y ago
    Use the volume down button on an iPhone.
- cyberferret 9y ago
  Certainly a better way, but my gripe above is not just with volume buttons but with other things such as EQ, panning, time delays and a million other things that audio software can control. I am guessing that screen UX designers wrestle with the same constraints that physical audio hardware manufacturers to - that of space restriction, and cramming as much as they can into a given space. Hence I guess why things like recording consoles have a slider for the critical volume adjustments, but rotating knobs for other things like panning, EQ etc. above that. Volume is one thing I don't mind seeing as a vertical slider, but then would panning be a horizontal slider? I actually prefer a round knob for that because the knob position is a better resemblance of the 360deg sensory perception around my head when setting the stereo space.
  - AstralStorm 9y ago
    Albeit a true 2D control surface works much better. (A control rectangle which is a cross product of two sliders.) Pan cannot give you 2D positioning, even when combined with loudness or approximation thereof.
- s_kilk 9y ago
  Sliders take up more space for the same "travel" though.
- derefr 9y ago
  > almost like some imaginary need for a specific shutter button to press to take a photo on a phone (just touch the screen!). I've always wanted a shutter button on my phone, because of what it would imply: the ability to take a picture instantaneously, as the first action that wakes the phone from sleep. I often miss shots because of the six seconds required to get from my phone being in my pocket to having the Camera app open.
  - seniorsassycat 9y ago
    My xperia has a dedicated camera button.
  - ChristianGeek 9y ago
    Got an iPhone? 1. Pull out phone. 2. Press power button. 3. Swipe the time left (don't unlock) 4. Press volume down button to take photo. Two seconds tops from photo op to photo! Note: You don't have to swipe the time, you just want to avoid swiping a reminder and the time is an easy and guaranteed-to-work target.
    - deanCommie 9y ago
      You're missing the point. All phones have a camera shortcut. OP's point is you shouldn't even have to have an additional step, however short it is.
      - ralfd 9y ago
        Imagine though the millions of photos a phone would shoot in a pocket.
    - revmoo 9y ago
      That's four discrete steps lmao
- PhasmaFelis 9y ago
  In landscape orientation, stock Android "helpfully" keeps the shutter button on the right side of the screen at all times even if you rotate it. Because left-handed people never take photos. -_-
- 8note 9y ago
  what's the second dimension on rotation? you can completely describe it using the angle.
- joshka 9y ago
  On many (most?) phones, the volume buttons act as a physical shutter button. I don't recall the last phone I saw which doesn't have this feature. iPhone, various android phones...
colanderman 9y ago
Don't forget, is it linear or logarithmic? It baffles me that it's 2017 and people who implement volume sliders never even consider that the obvious choice might not be the best...
- cyberferret 9y ago
  Ah yes - log/lin is one that I forgot to mention in my original list. It is a HUGE factor.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - jameskegel 9y ago
    Too low, too low, too low, ears bleeding. Thanks, PulseAudio for teaching me the difference between log and lin
- svantana 9y ago
  Well logarithmic doesn't make sense, because it never gets to zero. However something like p^0.42 (sound pressure with an exponent<1) works well because it is similar to the perceived sound level. An interesting connection is that the power function "becomes" a logarithm as the exponent goes to zero.
  - arfar 9y ago
    Log/lin depends on your target market a lot I think. I don't know, but I imagine, audio engineers and the like would be expecting a logarithmic scale for their volume knobs. I make guitar pedals sometimes, I've never seen a volume knob not be a logarithmic potentiometer.
  - thaumasiotes 9y ago
    > An interesting connection is that the power function "becomes" a logarithm as the exponent goes to zero. Logarithms are infinitesimal exponentials -- x log x grows faster than x but slower than x^{1+ε} for any real positive ε. They make an interesting counterpoint to the philosophy that infinitesimal quantities can't exist in "real" mathematics.
hdjddjtjtj55 9y ago
My personal favorite design, and I can't remember where I saw it used, was a scroll wheel centric version where you hover and scroll to adjust volume, with a bubble appearing above with current setting I think it was on a UI portfolio. Not a production effort Not sure how well it would work with a trackpad though. Worked great on a mouse with an obvious "tick" feedback in the scroll wheel though!
derefr 9y ago
A thought: have you ever seen a knob that actually turns by doing a two-fingered rotation gesture on a trackpad while hovered over it? I think that's the only skeuomorphic knob I'd actually be happy with.
- cyberferret 9y ago
  That is another UX quandary. A lot of the problems I mentioned in my OP would go away if everyone used the standard two finger twist gesture on the screen to 'turn' it up or down. However, if I try and use thumb and forefinger as normal, I cannot get my thumb especially to stay in skin contact with the screen easily - the nail comes into play, losing the double touch on the screen. Using forefinger and middle finger together works better, but makes twisting past a 180 degree turn very difficult. By far, the better solution is the car audio control I posted elsewhere in this thread, which uses multiple finger PLUS slide gestures - but that UI can take up the whole screen just to manipulate a single parameter.
PhasmaFelis 9y ago
> Does this knob work by sliding up/down or in a circular fashion? Or accept both ways? Or sliding left/right. I've seen that too.
AstralStorm 9y ago
Skeuomorphic interfaces should just be banned forever. What is so wrong about simple numerical input? Not cool enough? Want a darn analog VU meter to go with it?
- cyberferret 9y ago
  If you are working with audio a lot, then most of the time, the numbers are meaningless, and you are going by 'feel' and using your ears as the sensory feedback mechanism. Can you tell me how many dB's you need to set your volume at in your office environment in order to be able to hear above the background hubbub? At home? In the car? That sort of thing changes from day to day and situation to situation. Very often when I plug in my guitar into my amp, I will twiddle the knobs without even looking at the respective numbers. I just know that I have to adjust the bass, middle or treble EQ to suit the room, and will do so without looking. Often if I get a setting that sounds really sweet, I will look at, and write down the settings for future reference, but it is all done after the fact. The same goes for if I am using a software amp modelling sim on my PC or iPad etc. Twiddle while listening, then save the snapshot later if I am happy with it. I don't want a finicky interface to get in the way of my experimenting and twiddling. And yes, VU meters are also extremely useful when recording etc. in order to get a real time view of peaks and spikes in an audio track. Ask anybody who uses a DAW regularly.

mark242 9y ago

Volume is a percentage, and a very analog control. The idea that you would have to have a round knob to twist on a computer screen is ridiculous, almost like some imaginary need for a specific shutter button to press to take a photo on a phone (just touch the screen!). It's a one-dimensional value, make it a one-dimensional control. Slider. Done.

Sharlin 9y ago
Or a UI control mimicking an old-style rotary dial in a phone app. (Although to be fair, the rotary dial in old phones was terrible UX brought about by a purely technical design decision - on the other hand a physical volume dial in a real amplifier is a pretty intuitive control.)
throwaway899 9y ago
To be honest, I prefer the physical shutter button over tapping my screen on my phone when taking pictures.
- vkjv 9y ago
  I don't believe the parent meant a physical shutter button, but a specific area on screen designated as the shutter button instead of the much easier, "anywhere".
  - SAI_Peregrinus 9y ago
    Well, having "anywhere" be the shutter button means tap to focus won't work.
- abruzzi 9y ago
  Especially since screen tapping could be registering a "refocus to this point" action. Also since camera phones have no viewfinder, I use the screen to compose my shot. So to avoid obscuring what I am going to take a picture of, I keep my hand clear of the screen most of the time. That makes the act of triggering the shutter a more visible and deliberate act than just pushing a button that my finger is already touching. These probably don't matter to most people but are fairly frustrating to me. (the fact that I almost always shoot landscape, not portrait, may be the cause of the discomfort for me, since it changes my hold on my phone to something more like the hold on a camera.)
  - ferongr 9y ago
    With most sensors having a 4:3 aspect ratio and smartphone displays having a 16:9 (or wider) AR, there is no need to block the image being composed with any fingers. The blank areas are filled with all relevant controls and a virtual shutter release button.
- ChristianGeek 9y ago
  Use the volume down button on an iPhone.
cyberferret 9y ago
Certainly a better way, but my gripe above is not just with volume buttons but with other things such as EQ, panning, time delays and a million other things that audio software can control. I am guessing that screen UX designers wrestle with the same constraints that physical audio hardware manufacturers to - that of space restriction, and cramming as much as they can into a given space. Hence I guess why things like recording consoles have a slider for the critical volume adjustments, but rotating knobs for other things like panning, EQ etc. above that. Volume is one thing I don't mind seeing as a vertical slider, but then would panning be a horizontal slider? I actually prefer a round knob for that because the knob position is a better resemblance of the 360deg sensory perception around my head when setting the stereo space.
- AstralStorm 9y ago
  Albeit a true 2D control surface works much better. (A control rectangle which is a cross product of two sliders.) Pan cannot give you 2D positioning, even when combined with loudness or approximation thereof.
s_kilk 9y ago
Sliders take up more space for the same "travel" though.
derefr 9y ago
> almost like some imaginary need for a specific shutter button to press to take a photo on a phone (just touch the screen!). I've always wanted a shutter button on my phone, because of what it would imply: the ability to take a picture instantaneously, as the first action that wakes the phone from sleep. I often miss shots because of the six seconds required to get from my phone being in my pocket to having the Camera app open.
- seniorsassycat 9y ago
  My xperia has a dedicated camera button.
- ChristianGeek 9y ago
  Got an iPhone? 1. Pull out phone. 2. Press power button. 3. Swipe the time left (don't unlock) 4. Press volume down button to take photo. Two seconds tops from photo op to photo! Note: You don't have to swipe the time, you just want to avoid swiping a reminder and the time is an easy and guaranteed-to-work target.
  - deanCommie 9y ago
    You're missing the point. All phones have a camera shortcut. OP's point is you shouldn't even have to have an additional step, however short it is.
    - ralfd 9y ago
      Imagine though the millions of photos a phone would shoot in a pocket.
  - revmoo 9y ago
    That's four discrete steps lmao
PhasmaFelis 9y ago
In landscape orientation, stock Android "helpfully" keeps the shutter button on the right side of the screen at all times even if you rotate it. Because left-handed people never take photos. -_-
8note 9y ago
what's the second dimension on rotation? you can completely describe it using the angle.
joshka 9y ago
On many (most?) phones, the volume buttons act as a physical shutter button. I don't recall the last phone I saw which doesn't have this feature. iPhone, various android phones...

colanderman 9y ago

Don't forget, is it linear or logarithmic? It baffles me that it's 2017 and people who implement volume sliders never even consider that the obvious choice might not be the best...

cyberferret 9y ago
Ah yes - log/lin is one that I forgot to mention in my original list. It is a HUGE factor.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- jameskegel 9y ago
  Too low, too low, too low, ears bleeding. Thanks, PulseAudio for teaching me the difference between log and lin
svantana 9y ago
Well logarithmic doesn't make sense, because it never gets to zero. However something like p^0.42 (sound pressure with an exponent<1) works well because it is similar to the perceived sound level. An interesting connection is that the power function "becomes" a logarithm as the exponent goes to zero.
- arfar 9y ago
  Log/lin depends on your target market a lot I think. I don't know, but I imagine, audio engineers and the like would be expecting a logarithmic scale for their volume knobs. I make guitar pedals sometimes, I've never seen a volume knob not be a logarithmic potentiometer.
- thaumasiotes 9y ago
  > An interesting connection is that the power function "becomes" a logarithm as the exponent goes to zero. Logarithms are infinitesimal exponentials -- x log x grows faster than x but slower than x^{1+ε} for any real positive ε. They make an interesting counterpoint to the philosophy that infinitesimal quantities can't exist in "real" mathematics.

hdjddjtjtj55 9y ago

My personal favorite design, and I can't remember where I saw it used, was a scroll wheel centric version where you hover and scroll to adjust volume, with a bubble appearing above with current setting I think it was on a UI portfolio. Not a production effort Not sure how well it would work with a trackpad though. Worked great on a mouse with an obvious "tick" feedback in the scroll wheel though!

derefr 9y ago

A thought: have you ever seen a knob that actually turns by doing a two-fingered rotation gesture on a trackpad while hovered over it? I think that's the only skeuomorphic knob I'd actually be happy with.

cyberferret 9y ago
That is another UX quandary. A lot of the problems I mentioned in my OP would go away if everyone used the standard two finger twist gesture on the screen to 'turn' it up or down. However, if I try and use thumb and forefinger as normal, I cannot get my thumb especially to stay in skin contact with the screen easily - the nail comes into play, losing the double touch on the screen. Using forefinger and middle finger together works better, but makes twisting past a 180 degree turn very difficult. By far, the better solution is the car audio control I posted elsewhere in this thread, which uses multiple finger PLUS slide gestures - but that UI can take up the whole screen just to manipulate a single parameter.

PhasmaFelis 9y ago

> Does this knob work by sliding up/down or in a circular fashion? Or accept both ways? Or sliding left/right. I've seen that too.

AstralStorm 9y ago

Skeuomorphic interfaces should just be banned forever. What is so wrong about simple numerical input? Not cool enough? Want a darn analog VU meter to go with it?

cyberferret 9y ago
If you are working with audio a lot, then most of the time, the numbers are meaningless, and you are going by 'feel' and using your ears as the sensory feedback mechanism. Can you tell me how many dB's you need to set your volume at in your office environment in order to be able to hear above the background hubbub? At home? In the car? That sort of thing changes from day to day and situation to situation. Very often when I plug in my guitar into my amp, I will twiddle the knobs without even looking at the respective numbers. I just know that I have to adjust the bass, middle or treble EQ to suit the room, and will do so without looking. Often if I get a setting that sounds really sweet, I will look at, and write down the settings for future reference, but it is all done after the fact. The same goes for if I am using a software amp modelling sim on my PC or iPad etc. Twiddle while listening, then save the snapshot later if I am happy with it. I don't want a finicky interface to get in the way of my experimenting and twiddling. And yes, VU meters are also extremely useful when recording etc. in order to get a real time view of peaks and spikes in an audio track. Ask anybody who uses a DAW regularly.