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> “I think, if you consider X, Y, and Z, that you would find that it's more case A than case B” may get a different reaction than “No, B is dumb.” I have been

by Swizec 9y ago

> “I think, if you consider X, Y, and Z, that you would find that it's more case A than case B” may get a different reaction than “No, B is dumb.” I have been told that this also is impolite in many situations. My usual approach is asking questions. People get upset when they don't have answers because they aren't used to having their beliefs questioned and don't think defending them should be necessary.

bballer 9y ago
> "People get upset when they don't have answers because they aren't used to having their beliefs questioned and don't think defending them should be necessary." This so much. Some how in the last 10 or so years we as a society have been moving towards holding beliefs that are rooted in nothing but an emotional foundation in which knowledge has no part of. Then when those beliefs are questioned by others the response of the person is to close up and get defensive, while coming to the conclusion you are ignorant or stupid for disagreeing. When I start to disagree with people and try and have a conversation about our differences in perception on the subject, the other party always thinks I want to have an argument, but in reality I want to have a conversation. Arguments aren't about sharing knowledge, they're entered into to triumph over the other. It's as if we have lost the art of conversation.
- watwut 9y ago
  "Arguments aren't about sharing knowledge, they're entered into to triumph over the other. It's as if we have lost the art of conversation" Was it ever different? In particular, questioning religion used to draw angry emotional responses. Alternatively, if you look at 1960ties, you won't find dry rational discourse. You will find people fighting and destroying each other.
watwut 9y ago
In general, people don't like to be questioned even when they have answers. Sometimes people just want to have thanksgiving dinner without being put into defensive and having to argue every minor point. When to argue and when not to is as important as knowing how.
- SimbaOnSteroids 9y ago
  I take your point but sometimes thanksgiving dinner is the only time uncle earl ever comes into contact with someone with a higher education.
  - throwanem 9y ago
    An open expression of contempt is rude, too.
- TeMPOraL 9y ago
  I wish the default rule would be: don't say things out loud that you don't wish to have to defend. I mean, I don't usually try to start arguments on purpose over a family dinner. But when someone, out of their own initiative, starts talking complete nonsense and expect me to take part in that conversation, then well... I understand social objects, but I believe accuracy of beliefs is more important than talking for the sake of talking.
  - watwut 9y ago
    Yeah, it is more subtle then that. But the person I was responding to did not stroke me that way. By his own words, he questions people as usual strategy to force them into "exchange of ideas" he personally enjoys. They don't I guess. He got feedback that it come across as rude multiple times. And unrelatedly, it is easier to find flaws and nitpick then put on theory or explanation.
- Swizec 9y ago
  It's more like "No girlfriend's mum, I will not buy into your essential oils pyramid scheme. No I promise you a homeopathic medicine cannot treat both cancer and the common cold. Yes even if it did help your friend's friend of a friend's sister's dog walker. But thank you for telepathically healing my parrot. He was in good health both before and after" Ya know? Do I get to vocally disagree with stuff like that even though it's thanksgiving?
  - 9y ago

by Swizec 9y ago

bballer 9y ago

> "People get upset when they don't have answers because they aren't used to having their beliefs questioned and don't think defending them should be necessary." This so much. Some how in the last 10 or so years we as a society have been moving towards holding beliefs that are rooted in nothing but an emotional foundation in which knowledge has no part of. Then when those beliefs are questioned by others the response of the person is to close up and get defensive, while coming to the conclusion you are ignorant or stupid for disagreeing. When I start to disagree with people and try and have a conversation about our differences in perception on the subject, the other party always thinks I want to have an argument, but in reality I want to have a conversation. Arguments aren't about sharing knowledge, they're entered into to triumph over the other. It's as if we have lost the art of conversation.

watwut 9y ago
"Arguments aren't about sharing knowledge, they're entered into to triumph over the other. It's as if we have lost the art of conversation" Was it ever different? In particular, questioning religion used to draw angry emotional responses. Alternatively, if you look at 1960ties, you won't find dry rational discourse. You will find people fighting and destroying each other.

watwut 9y ago

In general, people don't like to be questioned even when they have answers. Sometimes people just want to have thanksgiving dinner without being put into defensive and having to argue every minor point. When to argue and when not to is as important as knowing how.

SimbaOnSteroids 9y ago
I take your point but sometimes thanksgiving dinner is the only time uncle earl ever comes into contact with someone with a higher education.
- throwanem 9y ago
  An open expression of contempt is rude, too.
TeMPOraL 9y ago
I wish the default rule would be: don't say things out loud that you don't wish to have to defend. I mean, I don't usually try to start arguments on purpose over a family dinner. But when someone, out of their own initiative, starts talking complete nonsense and expect me to take part in that conversation, then well... I understand social objects, but I believe accuracy of beliefs is more important than talking for the sake of talking.
- watwut 9y ago
  Yeah, it is more subtle then that. But the person I was responding to did not stroke me that way. By his own words, he questions people as usual strategy to force them into "exchange of ideas" he personally enjoys. They don't I guess. He got feedback that it come across as rude multiple times. And unrelatedly, it is easier to find flaws and nitpick then put on theory or explanation.
Swizec 9y ago
It's more like "No girlfriend's mum, I will not buy into your essential oils pyramid scheme. No I promise you a homeopathic medicine cannot treat both cancer and the common cold. Yes even if it did help your friend's friend of a friend's sister's dog walker. But thank you for telepathically healing my parrot. He was in good health both before and after" Ya know? Do I get to vocally disagree with stuff like that even though it's thanksgiving?
- 9y ago