5 ms·

> Since you seek social approval from your friends it makes you want to argue less with others. Since gaining entry into the US middle/professional class I hav

by Swizec 9y ago

> Since you seek social approval from your friends it makes you want to argue less with others. Since gaining entry into the US middle/professional class I have been informed numerous times that disagreeing with one's friends is impolite. I miss the times when I could say things like "No, what you're saying is dumb" without drawing shocked stares. It was a simpler often better time. I'm told it is particularly inappropriate to disagree with your girlfriend's mum and tell her she's spouting rubbish. Especially at a cordial thanksgiving dinner. But if you can't argue with people and test each other's ideas, then what's the point of keeping them around?

knieveltech 9y ago
If your friends think you're being rude when you offer a counterpoint to their opinions it's time to find better friends.
- JoshTriplett 9y ago
  > If your friends think you're being rude when you offer a counterpoint to their opinions it's time to find better friends. While in general friends should be able to disagree amicably, I wouldn't automatically jump to this conclusion; check how you're presenting your "counterpoint" first.
gozur88 9y ago
I argue with my friends all the time. To the point one of the wives threw up her hands and said her husband and I were like an old married couple. But FB is different. It's like being in a big ballroom with all of your friends and acquaintances standing around watching you argue with one of them at the top of your lungs. It feels somehow boorish.
dragonwriter 9y ago
> Since gaining entry into the US middle/professional class I have been informed numerous times that disagreeing with one's friends is impolite. > I miss the times when I could say things like "No, what you're saying is dumb" without drawing shocked stares. I think you may be mistaking cultural norms about the manner of expression of disagreement with a cultural norms against disagreement generally. “I think, if you consider X, Y, and Z, that you would find that it's more case A than case B” may get a different reaction than “No, B is dumb.”
- Swizec 9y ago
  > “I think, if you consider X, Y, and Z, that you would find that it's more case A than case B” may get a different reaction than “No, B is dumb.” I have been told that this also is impolite in many situations. My usual approach is asking questions. People get upset when they don't have answers because they aren't used to having their beliefs questioned and don't think defending them should be necessary.
  - bballer 9y ago
    > "People get upset when they don't have answers because they aren't used to having their beliefs questioned and don't think defending them should be necessary." This so much. Some how in the last 10 or so years we as a society have been moving towards holding beliefs that are rooted in nothing but an emotional foundation in which knowledge has no part of. Then when those beliefs are questioned by others the response of the person is to close up and get defensive, while coming to the conclusion you are ignorant or stupid for disagreeing. When I start to disagree with people and try and have a conversation about our differences in perception on the subject, the other party always thinks I want to have an argument, but in reality I want to have a conversation. Arguments aren't about sharing knowledge, they're entered into to triumph over the other. It's as if we have lost the art of conversation.
    - watwut 9y ago
      "Arguments aren't about sharing knowledge, they're entered into to triumph over the other. It's as if we have lost the art of conversation" Was it ever different? In particular, questioning religion used to draw angry emotional responses. Alternatively, if you look at 1960ties, you won't find dry rational discourse. You will find people fighting and destroying each other.
  - watwut 9y ago
    In general, people don't like to be questioned even when they have answers. Sometimes people just want to have thanksgiving dinner without being put into defensive and having to argue every minor point. When to argue and when not to is as important as knowing how.

by Swizec 9y ago

knieveltech 9y ago

If your friends think you're being rude when you offer a counterpoint to their opinions it's time to find better friends.

JoshTriplett 9y ago
> If your friends think you're being rude when you offer a counterpoint to their opinions it's time to find better friends. While in general friends should be able to disagree amicably, I wouldn't automatically jump to this conclusion; check how you're presenting your "counterpoint" first.

gozur88 9y ago

I argue with my friends all the time. To the point one of the wives threw up her hands and said her husband and I were like an old married couple. But FB is different. It's like being in a big ballroom with all of your friends and acquaintances standing around watching you argue with one of them at the top of your lungs. It feels somehow boorish.

dragonwriter 9y ago

> Since gaining entry into the US middle/professional class I have been informed numerous times that disagreeing with one's friends is impolite. > I miss the times when I could say things like "No, what you're saying is dumb" without drawing shocked stares. I think you may be mistaking cultural norms about the manner of expression of disagreement with a cultural norms against disagreement generally. “I think, if you consider X, Y, and Z, that you would find that it's more case A than case B” may get a different reaction than “No, B is dumb.”

Swizec 9y ago
> “I think, if you consider X, Y, and Z, that you would find that it's more case A than case B” may get a different reaction than “No, B is dumb.” I have been told that this also is impolite in many situations. My usual approach is asking questions. People get upset when they don't have answers because they aren't used to having their beliefs questioned and don't think defending them should be necessary.
- bballer 9y ago
  > "People get upset when they don't have answers because they aren't used to having their beliefs questioned and don't think defending them should be necessary." This so much. Some how in the last 10 or so years we as a society have been moving towards holding beliefs that are rooted in nothing but an emotional foundation in which knowledge has no part of. Then when those beliefs are questioned by others the response of the person is to close up and get defensive, while coming to the conclusion you are ignorant or stupid for disagreeing. When I start to disagree with people and try and have a conversation about our differences in perception on the subject, the other party always thinks I want to have an argument, but in reality I want to have a conversation. Arguments aren't about sharing knowledge, they're entered into to triumph over the other. It's as if we have lost the art of conversation.
  - watwut 9y ago
    "Arguments aren't about sharing knowledge, they're entered into to triumph over the other. It's as if we have lost the art of conversation" Was it ever different? In particular, questioning religion used to draw angry emotional responses. Alternatively, if you look at 1960ties, you won't find dry rational discourse. You will find people fighting and destroying each other.
- watwut 9y ago
  In general, people don't like to be questioned even when they have answers. Sometimes people just want to have thanksgiving dinner without being put into defensive and having to argue every minor point. When to argue and when not to is as important as knowing how.