6 ms·

Tabula Peutingeriana is a road map of Europe which is a copy of a Roman original thought to have been based on a map prepared by Agrippa. https://upload.wikime

Tabula Peutingeriana is a road map of Europe which is a copy of a Roman original thought to have been based on a map prepared by Agrippa. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/50/TabulaPeutingeriana.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/50/TabulaPe... It also has a 'subway' feel, given that not much attention has been paid to getting the shapes correct.

singularity2001 9y ago
"the Greenbelt" amplifying the fact that civilization used to spread more in east-west direction then North-South
cannam 9y ago
Any idea what the small circular lake with the island in the middle, at bottom right might be? That's an interestingly precise shape. (It's surrounded by labels for desert, but I can't make out the labels on the island itself.)
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- philippnagel 9y ago
  See http://www.cambridge.org/us/talbert/talbertdatabase/TPPlace3246.html http://www.cambridge.org/us/talbert/talbertdatabase/TPPlace3... and http://www.cambridge.org/us/talbert/talbertdatabase/TPPlace2718.html http://www.cambridge.org/us/talbert/talbertdatabase/TPPlace2.... Edit: seems to be somewhere within the Iraqi marshlands: http://www.indiana.edu/~nelc/events/documents/Jwaideh/jwaideh_lecture_2007.pdf http://www.indiana.edu/~nelc/events/documents/Jwaideh/jwaide... (back then at least).
- afleck 9y ago
  https://www.google.com/maps/@30.3922623,49.233182,10z https://www.google.com/maps/@30.3922623,49.233182,10z I believe it's this.
- freshbob 9y ago
  If you look at the map, you can see Samosata up north on the Euphrates, Ressaina between Euphrates and Tigris and Zeugma to the west. Tharrana is next to the circular lake with the island. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samosata https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samosata is the modern city of Samsat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhesaina https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhesaina is Ressaina (see http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.04.0064:id=rhesaena-geo http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:19...) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeugma,_Commagene https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeugma,_Commagene Zeugma is near modern-day Gaziantep The location of historic Tharrana is apparently not finally known. Harran, Turkey is one possibility mentioned at http://www.euratlas.net/cartogra/peutinger/10_mesopotamia/mesopotamia_5_3.html http://www.euratlas.net/cartogra/peutinger/10_mesopotamia/me.... Since all reference points are in Turkey or Syria, best guess is that the cirular lake with the island is Al Jaboul Lake, 36.024360"N, 37.610087"E. It used to be a tributary to the Euphrates but no source I could find states exactly when that changed.
  - nkoren 9y ago
    Good guess! Here's an alternate proposal: Raqqah. Check it out on the map: https://goo.gl/maps/ubW2hp1Wh6N2 https://goo.gl/maps/ubW2hp1Wh6N2 It obviously isn't in a lake, but it looks like the the tributary coming down from Harran goes both west and east of Raqqah, making it an island of sorts. The shape made by the this "island" is reasonably close to circular. Finally, per the map, it's southeast of Zuegma and south of Harran. Obviously hypothesising wildly, but this map is just way too much fun.
edward_rolf 9y ago
That map is just awsome in so many ways. Where is Denmark and Sweden though? Romans just didn't think there was anything up there? Nothing? Way too cold up there for people to live?
- halfdan 9y ago
  They didn't really get past the Germanic tribes and stopped expansion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Teutoburg_Forest https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Teutoburg_Forest Presumably also because there wasn't much there at the time that would've allowed them to collect taxes.
  - bergoid 9y ago
    > They didn't really get past the Germanic tribes and stopped expansion They were unable to find a new natural border that was as easily defendable as the Rhine-Danube combination. > Presumably also because there wasn't much there at the time that would've allowed them to collect taxes. The Romans liked to portray Germania as poor and inhospitable. Part of the reason for that could be cognitive dissonance for never having conquered it.
    - toyg 9y ago
      Or because it really was poor and inhospitable. Until the middle ages, when new agricultural tools were invented, Germanic territories projected very little power, and relied on periodic aggression to survive in typical nomadic way. This changed when they could actually grow stuff in more reliable ways, producing surpluses to trade and establishing stable kingdoms.
      - usrusr 9y ago
        In other words: Germanic tribes were using the defensive strategy of not preparing wheat fields for invaders to harvest during campaigning season. Kind of equivalent to cyberdefense by pen and paper. Half of Cesar's Gallic War seems to be more than half about grain logistics (huge efforts to start the campaigns jus a few weeks earlier) and ripeness of the local crops. And that is even while he was likely trying to downplay all the robbery.
pouetpouet 9y ago
This can help to read the map http://www.euratlas.net/cartogra/peutinger/ http://www.euratlas.net/cartogra/peutinger/ https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Extends_of_the_Tabula_Peutingeria.png https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Extends_of_the_Tabul...
arethuza 9y ago
I love the Wall there on Britannia... "There is no land beyond us and even the sea is no safe refuge when we are threatened by the Roman fleet....We are the last people on earth, and the last to be free: our very remoteness in a land known only to rumour has protected us up till this day...."
rurban 9y ago
I find it interesting they put Albania into Persia, not between Dalmatia and Macedonia/Lepirum Novum.

singularity2001 9y ago

"the Greenbelt" amplifying the fact that civilization used to spread more in east-west direction then North-South

cannam 9y ago

Any idea what the small circular lake with the island in the middle, at bottom right might be? That's an interestingly precise shape. (It's surrounded by labels for desert, but I can't make out the labels on the island itself.)

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
philippnagel 9y ago
See http://www.cambridge.org/us/talbert/talbertdatabase/TPPlace3246.html http://www.cambridge.org/us/talbert/talbertdatabase/TPPlace3... and http://www.cambridge.org/us/talbert/talbertdatabase/TPPlace2718.html http://www.cambridge.org/us/talbert/talbertdatabase/TPPlace2.... Edit: seems to be somewhere within the Iraqi marshlands: http://www.indiana.edu/~nelc/events/documents/Jwaideh/jwaideh_lecture_2007.pdf http://www.indiana.edu/~nelc/events/documents/Jwaideh/jwaide... (back then at least).
afleck 9y ago
https://www.google.com/maps/@30.3922623,49.233182,10z https://www.google.com/maps/@30.3922623,49.233182,10z I believe it's this.
freshbob 9y ago
If you look at the map, you can see Samosata up north on the Euphrates, Ressaina between Euphrates and Tigris and Zeugma to the west. Tharrana is next to the circular lake with the island. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samosata https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samosata is the modern city of Samsat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhesaina https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhesaina is Ressaina (see http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.04.0064:id=rhesaena-geo http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:19...) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeugma,_Commagene https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeugma,_Commagene Zeugma is near modern-day Gaziantep The location of historic Tharrana is apparently not finally known. Harran, Turkey is one possibility mentioned at http://www.euratlas.net/cartogra/peutinger/10_mesopotamia/mesopotamia_5_3.html http://www.euratlas.net/cartogra/peutinger/10_mesopotamia/me.... Since all reference points are in Turkey or Syria, best guess is that the cirular lake with the island is Al Jaboul Lake, 36.024360"N, 37.610087"E. It used to be a tributary to the Euphrates but no source I could find states exactly when that changed.
- nkoren 9y ago
  Good guess! Here's an alternate proposal: Raqqah. Check it out on the map: https://goo.gl/maps/ubW2hp1Wh6N2 https://goo.gl/maps/ubW2hp1Wh6N2 It obviously isn't in a lake, but it looks like the the tributary coming down from Harran goes both west and east of Raqqah, making it an island of sorts. The shape made by the this "island" is reasonably close to circular. Finally, per the map, it's southeast of Zuegma and south of Harran. Obviously hypothesising wildly, but this map is just way too much fun.

edward_rolf 9y ago

That map is just awsome in so many ways. Where is Denmark and Sweden though? Romans just didn't think there was anything up there? Nothing? Way too cold up there for people to live?

halfdan 9y ago
They didn't really get past the Germanic tribes and stopped expansion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Teutoburg_Forest https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Teutoburg_Forest Presumably also because there wasn't much there at the time that would've allowed them to collect taxes.
- bergoid 9y ago
  > They didn't really get past the Germanic tribes and stopped expansion They were unable to find a new natural border that was as easily defendable as the Rhine-Danube combination. > Presumably also because there wasn't much there at the time that would've allowed them to collect taxes. The Romans liked to portray Germania as poor and inhospitable. Part of the reason for that could be cognitive dissonance for never having conquered it.
  - toyg 9y ago
    Or because it really was poor and inhospitable. Until the middle ages, when new agricultural tools were invented, Germanic territories projected very little power, and relied on periodic aggression to survive in typical nomadic way. This changed when they could actually grow stuff in more reliable ways, producing surpluses to trade and establishing stable kingdoms.
    - usrusr 9y ago
      In other words: Germanic tribes were using the defensive strategy of not preparing wheat fields for invaders to harvest during campaigning season. Kind of equivalent to cyberdefense by pen and paper. Half of Cesar's Gallic War seems to be more than half about grain logistics (huge efforts to start the campaigns jus a few weeks earlier) and ripeness of the local crops. And that is even while he was likely trying to downplay all the robbery.

pouetpouet 9y ago

This can help to read the map http://www.euratlas.net/cartogra/peutinger/ http://www.euratlas.net/cartogra/peutinger/ https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Extends_of_the_Tabula_Peutingeria.png https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Extends_of_the_Tabul...

arethuza 9y ago

I love the Wall there on Britannia... "There is no land beyond us and even the sea is no safe refuge when we are threatened by the Roman fleet....We are the last people on earth, and the last to be free: our very remoteness in a land known only to rumour has protected us up till this day...."

rurban 9y ago

I find it interesting they put Albania into Persia, not between Dalmatia and Macedonia/Lepirum Novum.