12 ms·

Why I Quit A Six Figure Job

132 points by ryan-allen 16y ago

ngsayjoe 16y ago
I quit my six-figure job (in Malaysia) 1 year ago as well to build my startup. It feels so liberating ever since. I haven't manage to made back the same level of income i used to make though. But somehow managed to get an angel seed and achieve ramen profitable business within 1 year. Haven't ever regretted it a single second! One thing that really pushed me to take the leap was "I have only one life, it is short. It is now or never!" in my mind!
TomOfTTB 16y ago
I don't know. This seems stupid to me. I'm all for chasing your dream when you have an actual dream to chase. But to quit a good job that pays well just to randomly walk around and try to figure out what you want to do doesn't seem wise to me. It seems much wiser to wait till you have an idea that you want to pursue and then quit. That way you have more resources to devote to the idea that you're actually dedicated to.
- shykes 16y ago
  > That way you have more resources to devote to the idea that you're actually dedicated to. Sometimes the scarce resource is not money, but free time and mental availability. "Randomly walking around" could increase his chances of bumping into a hidden opportunity. I say go for it.
  - xaviershay 16y ago
    Exactly. I suspect you can't find a dream sitting at a desk. I have plenty of savings, and plenty of earning potential - if I really get stuck (I don't believe likely) I can always pick up another job. Money is a means, not an end.
    - jimbokun 16y ago
      "I have plenty of savings..." I think this is the key. You have two years of runway to figure out what to do next (according to the blog). That money in the bank is a lot more security than any job can offer, by itself. Staying in your job for another two years might be the greater risk, when opportunity costs are taken into account.
      - Psyonic 16y ago
        Perhaps... but while the safety net can grant you freedom, it also takes away the need to succeed.
        xaviershay 16y ago
        I'm feeling this a bit, so I'm keeping an extra eye on things to try and ensure I don't become complacent.
        Psyonic 16y ago
        Cool. I hope I didn't come across as being overly negative. I actually think what you're doing is awesome! I was just pointing out that a job isn't the only "trap" you can fall into. I know someone who acquired a million dollars in his mid-20's, but I can't say he's really living his dreams because of it. I don't think you'll have too much of a problem, looking at your track record, but it does appear you have to be careful to ensure that "I can do whatever I want" doesn't turn in to "I don't do much of anything."
    - thecircusb0y 16y ago
      Cannot money be a means to the end to justify the beginning? I work to pay off my student loans. I think that when my student loans are paid off, and my expenses are significantly lower, I can relieve myself of my job security and either relocate/travel and become a consultant/contractor maybe pursue a more fulfilling job.
    - Psyonic 16y ago
  - potatolicious 16y ago
    Seems like a sledgehammer + fly situation. If your job is taking too much out of your spare time and creativity, perhaps the solution is to work less (or work on something less draining), as opposed to calling it quits altogether. I've never seen entrepreneurship as a means to escape a tedious, loathsome working life - it is a means to achieve my dreams, not a refuge from boredom. IMHO if you're striking out on your own solely because you hated your job, perhaps you worked for the wrong people, and your problem isn't with employment in general, but with your employer. I dislike the author's tone on a few points: > "A job is working on someone else’s dream." Bull. I'm working on my dream right now (one of many, but I digress). It's high-impact, and can't be done on my own (even with funding) by sheer virtue of inertia and existing infrastructure. We fought for the idea, proved its worth, and now we get to work on something game-changing, making all the important calls along the way. It's freedom, working with smart people, on your dream, with deep pockets, and the support of an army of equally talented people. > "A job is selling your time." Since when? There are lots of jobs, particularly on this side of the country (um, the west) where your performance is judged by your work and not the time on the clock (if you're even clocked!). I have no "competing motivations" - perhaps an artifact of, oh, working on things I actually desire to complete. I applaud the author for doing things his way - but I wish he didn't have to resort to denigrating the concept of employment to justify his own lifestyle.
    - cookiecaper 16y ago
      >"Since when? There are lots of jobs, particularly on this side of the country (um, the west) where your performance is judged by your work and not the time on the clock (if you're even clocked!)." I've found that most places expect at least an eight-hour day out of you, whether you're formally "clocked" or not. I think often that a salaried position is seen as an opportunity for exploitation by bosses. My last job was like that, and my co-workers just ate it up; the bosses demanded ten-hour days and other concessions and everyone just went along because since we were salaried it meant we had to do whatever they said (we were even taken to the boss's house one day to help move furniture) without any prospect of fair compensation, or something like that. I don't really get it. There may be a bit more leniency with breaks and that kind of thing at a salary job, but if you're not there before 9 and you're not still there after 5, and this happens even rarely without prior approval, your bosses aren't going to be pleased. I agree that a job can provide a way for an employee to work on "his dream", but such a situation is incredibly rare, and even rarer is the situation where, when this dream is realized through your work, you'll get due credit and compensation. Working for the man is just an all-around bad deal if you're looking to control your own life or do something big. That's just my opinion. If you're OK with a work-a-day routine, OK with even the possibility of eventual bullying from the bosses, OK with getting paid 1/4 or less of the value you actually generate, then working for someone else permanently may not be so bad, but that's not how I am, and I presume that many of us on HN have similar aversions. I say permanently because I think working for other people can be a good experience, and it's nice to get a significant amount of it under your belt; it helps you understand human dynamics and politics, can accelerate your skills and force you to learn new things, introduce you to cool people, etc., so a job isn't all bad, but I have a very hard time with the idea that I would be stuck working for someone else for the next fifty years.
- bootload 16y ago
  "... I'm all for chasing your dream when you have an actual dream to chase. But to quit a good job that pays well just to randomly walk around and try to figure out what you want to do doesn't seem wise to me. ..." Then you don't know Xavier. I do ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/bootload/4588097990/in/set-72157623828731047/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/bootload/4588097990/in/set-7215... He's not your conventional hacker by any sense of the word. If you're in the US and interested in Ruby and DB's maybe you can check out his DBIYF tour ~ http://www.dbisyourfriend.com/ http://www.dbisyourfriend.com/
- apsurd 16y ago
  To each his own. "stupid" seems like too harsh of a criticism. People have different value systems. I think it's not so good that you think so linearly. I'd argue that one's entire life is a lot of "randomly walking around trying to figure out what you want to do". Also, you are dangerously placing undue importance on obtaining some "idea" to pursue to justify quitting. Most ideas don't work out without substantial pivoting, which basically moots your supposed advantage. I'd also argue that "I want to do something other than work here" is a justifiable enough idea. Lastly, sometimes you gotta put the cart before the horse. / end idiomatic spree!
- philk 16y ago
  Never underestimate the addictiveness of a good job and a regular paycheck. It's very easy to get busy and have years fly by before you know it.
  - kscaldef 16y ago
    You say it as if a "good job and a regular paycheck" is a bad thing, rather than something that most of the population would be happy to have.
    - staunch 16y ago
      Most of the world's population would be happy just to have food and clean water. That doesn't make me feel guilty about wanting to work hard to get more than I already have.
      - kscaldef 16y ago
        Fine, but "addictiveness" is a rather loaded word to use (which I understand wasn't your terminology, but is what I'm objecting to in the parent).
    - zacharypinter 16y ago
      While not a bad thing in general, I think a "good job and a regular paycheck" is counterproductive for those wishing to be entrepreneurs.
- cstross 16y ago
  to quit a good job that pays well just to randomly walk around and try to figure out what you want to do doesn't seem wise to me. It seems much wiser to wait till you have an idea that you want to pursue and then quit. If you follow that course, you'll never quit. Because nothing stops you figuring out what you really want to do with your life like being continually busy, chasing someone else's dream. Time flies when you're busy. Back when I was young and inexperienced I took some bad career advice and pushed myself through a degree in a medical profession, and then postgraduate training. With 20/20 hindsight I was utterly unsuited to the profession, temperamentally. But I was too busy to see that I was making myself unhappy (and doing a second-rate job in the process). It took 18 months of post-qualification work to get around to the idea that I ought to bail, write off the previous six years, and go back to square one, and another year to put the plan into effect. Why? Because I was busy. In the end I wasted seven years on a mistake that was clear by the end of my first year at university. You only have one life. Use it wisely. If you find you're doing something that doesn't agree with you, think very hard before you push on indefinitely: nobody's going to give you those years back.
  - FreeRadical 16y ago
    But this guy wasn't continually busy, he was finishing at 4pm everyday.
    - byoung2 16y ago
      I work 7am-4pm (which means 5am-6pm if you count commute time), and though there is plenty of time to work on my own projects in the evenings, I find myself mentally drained most days, so what takes me an hour to do at work takes 2 or 3 at home in the evening. Weekends are more productive.
      - simon_ 16y ago
        Then the commute is almost as big a problem as the job itself. If you moved close to your job, you'd save 4hrs/day to work on whatever you wanted.
- erikb85 16y ago
  I agree and want to add that you also should consider your future. Today playing around might be a fullfilling life. But in 10-20 years you will think differently. If you don't start now to do something you can build on later, your life will just suck when you are 50. And then it will be incredibly harder to get what it is important for you if you don't create it now. Just think about how you would not have that job chance, if you didn't go to school as a child. Of course that was uncool at this age, but now you have great opportunities for the sacrifice of a part of your days back then.
- petervandijck 16y ago
  There's more to life than work or money. Taking some time to travel, or figure stuff out, or whatever can be the best thing ever.
- quan 16y ago
  I recently quit my high-paying job, in fact, today is my last day, and "randomly walk around" is exactly what I'm going to do. For most of my 27 years, I've been trying to do the "wise" thing by getting good grades, graduating from a good college, working at a good job, finishing my master, etc. For once, I want to be foolish. My number 1 reason for quitting is I want to get off the addiction of the constant paychecks. It's easy and safe, but the trade off is the predictable and unbearable daily routine. Everyday on my way to work, I know exactly which lanes to switch to on 495 for the optimal travel time. I log on and off the computer at work at roughly the same times. Once back at home, it's sad to look at the reflections of myself and the clock in the bathroom while washing my face and know that the same action happened at exactly the same moment yesterday. As for long term, I know exactly where I will be (in the best scenario) in the next 15-20 years if I continue to work for this or any other big companies. That's no way to live life if you look at the short time we have here. That's why I take the year off to travel, not only to break the daily routine, see new things, and meet new people but also to taste the danger of having no financial security to motivate myself to act. Before quitting, I've consistently worked 2-3 hours everyday after work on side projects. But the passion and focus cannot be there after being exhausted by 8 hours of work and knowing I will still get the next paycheck even if my projects fail. So now I'm excited to have my 8 hours back. Let's see how this foolish thing will work out.
  - ulrich 16y ago
    So you are 27 years old (same as me)?! For how long have you been working now? I'm asking, because I am also thinking about when to quit my current job and what to do next. What holds me back are just two things. First, its the paragliding course I already paid for but didn't finish yet. And second its the feeling that leaving my job would be too early right now. I have been promoted as teamleader just one year after graduating. But still I envy people like you who are able to simply quit and start a new thing.
    - Bluem00 16y ago
      You will always be able to come up with reasons not to take risks, and they don't have to be particularly good ones as long as they give you an excuse to wait a little longer. There will never be a right moment. I recommend you evaluate whether you're happy with your current situation, and if not, then seek to change it. Your choice isn't simply between keeping the job and quitting it; perhaps you can find a different way. I was in a similar situation as you are; running a small programming team at age 27, with no real commitments. I decided to stay because the opportunity seemed too good to pass up, but I'll never know where I'd be now if I took a risk back then. Over those three years it seemed like everyone I interviewed ran their own project. Many popped back and forth between working as part of a team, and running teams several times in their career, so it's not as special an accomplishment as I'd thought at the time. Now it's three years later, and I've gone part time and started telecommuting so that I can travel wherever I want and have time to figure out what I want to do next. Your choices may vary. Good luck!
- ergo98 16y ago
  >It seems much wiser to wait till you have an idea that you want to pursue and then quit. Every stripper and/or prostitute, the story goes, plans on quitting once they make enough money to go to school/open that greasy spoon/move somewhere else. In reality they end up `quitting' when the system is done with them and tosses them out. 9-5ers often live out the same lie. You talk about rational choices, but what normally happens when someone has a comfortable, non-challenging job is that they start to compensate for missed excitement by filling their life with expensive habits (whether it's drugs, addiction to games and electronics, expensive cars, the cottage, etc). Soon they are completely bound to their job, those golden-handcuffs demolishing any potential they might have had. Anyways, I've got to go off and look at a new car. My current one is 2 years old and is getting a little embarrassing.
  - Oxryly 16y ago
    Nice insight there; clearly spoken from direct and current experience. I think it's just one way a consistent low level fear manifests itself in our lives. Breaking out of that secure routine is not just scary by itself -- it'll dredge up a host of un-faced fears we carry around trying to avoid. I have the luxury of pointing this out from my desk in my office as I look forward to lunch hour.
    - ergo98 16y ago
      I've taken more "risks" than most, getting to a pretty comfortable position. Yet still I know that I've operated at maybe 20%, simply because I could. I remember quitting one job (giving proper notice and doing everything right to strive for something better) and one of my coworkers lauded my bravery. It struck me because I didn't see it as bravery at all. More cowardly of rotting away in a 9-5 boring position.
- pvdm 16y ago
  A job in a swiss patent office is hard to come by.
dmpatierno 16y ago
Two years of saved living expenses is great, but at a six figure salary, you can easily double that in 6 months. It seems a little foolish to back away so early. Though I'm sure the short-term result of quitting must be wonderful. I especially liked the anecdote about staying up weeknights to watch B-grade sci-fi. Best of luck!
- xaviershay 16y ago
  Sure I could double it ... but why? 2 years is far in excess of my planning capability. The effective difference between 2 and 4 for me is basically zero. (Also! Not having a job doesn't mean I don't have income. I'm still aiming for 50K in the next financial year, even if I fail I'll still meet living expenses comfortably I reckon)
  - mrtron 16y ago
    Don't touch at least half of your savings for a zillion reasons. Good luck on road ahead. This article will be nice to review in the months ahead. I wrote myself a similar note when I made the leap.
    - mkramlich 16y ago
      xaviershay: I agree with mrtron in that it would be nice to see a follow-up post from you in a year or two to tell everybody what you've done, learned, how it worked out. would be educational for everybody.
      - xaviershay 16y ago
        Totally, it's on the cards
- joss82 16y ago
  Being foolish seems to be the purpose of the all thing, isn't it? It's my favourite advice from Steve Jobs BTW: "Stay hungry, stay foolish." Some context: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1fdeu_steve-jobs-stay-hungry-stay-foolish_tech http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1fdeu_steve-jobs-stay-hung...
drlisp 16y ago
Xavier looks like Carrot Top
- ngsayjoe 16y ago
  I quit my six-figure job (in Malaysia) 1 year ago as well to build my startup. It feels so liberating ever since. I haven't manage to made back the same level of income i used to make though. But somehow managed to get an angel seed and achieve ramen profitable business within 1 year. Haven't ever regretted it a single second! One thing that really pushed me to take the leap was "I have only one life, it is short. It is now or never!" in my mind!
KateKendall 16y ago
I did a similar thing recently. I had so many things I wanted to work on and no time to do them, especially while working fulltime or being tied to one location. As they say - you can always get money back, but not time or opportunities. It's not a conventional path to take, but it certainly challenges your creativity and willpower. And as Xavier put it – it's about the freedom to say yes.
thinkdifferent 16y ago
What kind of job did he had? It seems very good. Can I send them my cv :) ?
bkrausz 16y ago
I totally get the sentiment and agree with all the reasons (to varying extents), but quitting my last job, where I was in almost the exact same position, was incredibly difficult. I wouldn't have been able to leave without another incredibly compelling opportunity (which I got). Those downsides are part of every job and are only downsides if you let them be. <shameless-but-not-self-serving-plug> On a related note, if anyone in Boston wants a job as awesome as the OP's was, go work for TripAdvisor (my former employer). Hit up sanj AT tripadvisor.com with a resume ( http://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=sanj http://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=sanj )
thegyppo 16y ago
Good to see lots of Melbourne names pop up in this thread. Melbourne FTW!
jister 16y ago
>> I currently have enough assets to sustain me for about two years I think this is the actual reason why he quit. He has savings. I don't think he will do that if he doesn't have money.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
asmithmd1 16y ago
"A job is low risk. ... risk is shouldered by the owners of the company, and that’s why they stand to gain (or lose) a lot more." Not true, as an employee you bear all the risk of being laid-off if the company does not do well; but do not benefit from the upside.
- ryan-allen 16y ago
  But the business bears the risk of running into significant debt if things go bad, as an employee you don't take that risk. Often business owners have invested significant capital in order to get things going, and they are not guaranteed a return on that investment.
  - asmithmd1 16y ago
    I am not arguing anything about the risks the business owners is taking, I am saying taking a job is not the low-risk, low-reward option it used to be. Years ago there was an implicit agreement when taking a job: work here for 40 years and you will not get rich but at least you will always have a job. That agreement is gone. Work for one company until you are in your 50's and you will be "laid-off" and replaced with a younger worker. Many people still think starting business is high risk compared to working for a company, but over the past 20 years the risks have changed and no longer makes sense to bear all the risk of losing your job with none of the commensurate up side of owning a business.
- jakevoytko 16y ago
  Looking at it from another angle, the laid-off employee loses nothing - they simply stop receiving. However, the owners are on the hook if the company goes belly-up The entrepreneurial system is organized so that the risk takers are the money makers when a company succeeds. It doesn't really make sense any other way - why else would someone start a business that might fail and cost a fortune?
  - jbarham 16y ago
    A lot of those laid-off people who "simply stop receiving" their paychecks are losing their houses. And the whole point of incorporation is that if the company goes bust, the owners are not personally liable. The risk-reward incentives for being an employee vs. employer are not quite so simple as you make out.
RyanMcGreal 16y ago
Off-topic: the NYTimes-style snap-out link recommendation was really distracting - and not in a good way.
- wyclif 16y ago
  Me too. My exact thought was, "this is a personal blog, not the NYT." It put a dent in the initial impression I had of the blog as handrolled.
  - xaviershay 16y ago
    Thanks for the feedback, it's had mixed responses. I hand rolled the snap out to copy the NYT, if that counts (it has subtle but important differences) ;)
ahoyhere 16y ago
Why are people so concerned with this guy's personal choices to spend time flaming them or lauding them? He's not telling anyone else to do it.
- steveklabnik 16y ago
  He did specifically say that he wanted to hear what people think, though.
  - ahoyhere 16y ago
    Yes, but people respond from the stance of "HE TOLD ME TO DO IT SO YAY!" or "HE TOLD ME TO DO IT SO HE'S A STUPID ASSHOLE, JEEZ." Even if you wanted to give your opinion when somebody asks for it, there's no need for that level of emotion -- unless you take it as either encouragement or an affront to your choices, and therefore, you yourself.
agentultra 16y ago
Maybe it's just the bias lens, but it seems like the dream is to work for yourself. If everyone did that... well what would it be like? I still treat myself as a free agent when I work as a salaried employee for someone else. I am invested in what I do with my time and want to accomplish things like anyone else. I just don't find it very practical to put my wife and I through the stress of financial insecurity just so I can get a kick out of my day. That being said, I don't just work for anyone to get a paycheque (at least not anymore now that I have some years of experience behind me). I prefer jobs where I'm treated as part of a team. I like to think that the company hired me because it found my skills and experiences useful to their goals. I'm also more likely to work for a company who is working on things I am interested in working on. Some people though; they take any job they can get. They need the paycheque. You'll wear yourself in that kind of job. But sometimes it's unavoidable. The only thing I don't like about articles like this: the mention of the big-ass six-figure salary that they walked away from. If it wasn't about the money, then who are you trying to impress? "Hey guys, I could've bought a nice home in the hills and a lambourghini if I wanted to, but I'm way too cool for that." Give me a break. I understand the pursuit of happiness and so the article wasn't a total loss of time. I just think he could've changed the headline to be more appropriate to what he was actually writing about. It's too sensationalist.
pvdm 16y ago
wow! "A job is a TV that takes up even more time."
JoeAltmaier 16y ago
I've quit six figure jobs repeatedly. When the startup gets bought and you find yourself working for the man, again, and your team is resigned to their fate and the work is rote and going the wrong way, its easy. When the company has a good idea and the team is working hard, but you can see the Founder is NEVER going to take anybody's money and there is too much IP to finish in any reasonable amount of time, its much harder. But done that too. And I often had not the slightest idea what to do next. But something comes up - each time its easier, you know more people.
- plinkplonk 16y ago
  "I've quit six figure jobs repeatedly." So have I. My last job at MegaCorp paid 6 figures in US dollars in Bangalore. That is a lot of money hereabouts and I did confess it did give me a pang to give it up - All I had to do to earn it was put on a corporate face and attend meetings all day. " But something comes up " yes it does. Hacking Robotics/Computer Vision Code. Couldn't be happier. But I think a key factor is whether you have a wife/kids to support. Many talented folks continued at MegaCorp for the steady salary checques. I respect that decision.
  - JoeAltmaier 16y ago
    Have wife, three kids. No, family's just the common excuse. Put money in the bank, enough for 6 months, and you are free from that. If you work for the guy that pays you the most, there's a word for that: prostitute. You think you're deciding where to work; actually they are, by bidding for your labor. You don't take charge of your life UNTIL you take the job for reasons other than money.
pinchyfingers 16y ago
Working to build another person's dream is okay if you believe in the dream. If work provides challenges that are personally rewarding then being an employee is a good proposition. Good employers are inspiring and they respect the needs of their employees. I would never want to employ a person simply for their utility as capital. Business value does come first when choosing to employ someone, but with the spectrum of choices available to employees in the United States, an employer should offer opportunities for personal growth. Employment with meaningful challenges is a decent alternative to self-employment.
Maven911 16y ago
Does anyone know what he used to do and where to earn 100k a year ?
- xaviershay 16y ago
  Ruby on Rails developer, primarily. Heaps of demand at the moment.
mike463 16y ago
I'd quit a six figure job... for a seven figure job. :)
mkramlich 16y ago
I agree with many of the individual factors he cited, but I think that quitting a job, especially a 6-figure job, after only 6 months is neither wise nor mature nor ethical, at least under the conditions he cited. It's not like it was an abusive situation or there was any significant dysfunction there. So I suspect he's on the young side. Bright maybe, but young. That said, I'm not knocking his aspirations or desires.
- xaviershay 16y ago
  How many months do you feel would be sufficient? What extra information should I be looking for in those months?
  - mkramlich 16y ago
    In the context of traditional jobs, it's generally a good idea to stay at a job anywhere from 1-5 years, at minimum, before voluntarily quitting -- and this is speaking in general terms, because there is no perfect number, etc. If you're laid off or fired, it's different. If the work situation is abusive or dysfunctional in some way, again, it's different. You have to show empathy also and look at it from an employer's point of view too: it takes a lot of effort to find somebody, especially find somebody good, and then there's ramp up time on both sides of the fence. As long as both parties make a good faith effort to make it a good situation, it's generally bad form for an employee to quit that early without significant mitigating circumstances in his life (family/health problems, etc.) Not saying you should stay there 10 years, that's too long in this field and economy. Partly it's a judgement thing, and partly comes from perspective gained from past experience. If you ever want to work for somebody else again it will be a black mark against you in many employer's minds, for example -- again, without there being significant relevant negative circumstances at play. Also, unless you're a young adult, all of this would have been knowable at 0 months rather than waiting to the 6 month marker to realize them. So again, if you're a younger adult, it makes more sense and is more excusable. Been there, done that, have the metaphorical t-shirt. :)
billywayne 16y ago
is this what they call a "first-world problem"?
steveh72 16y ago
It's worth pointing out he's probably talking about Australian dollars. Not that it makes a difference to his message.

132 points by ryan-allen 16y ago

I quit my six-figure job (in Malaysia) 1 year ago as well to build my startup. It feels so liberating ever since. I haven't manage to made back the same level of income i used to make though. But somehow managed to get an angel seed and achieve ramen profitable business within 1 year. Haven't ever regretted it a single second! One thing that really pushed me to take the leap was "I have only one life, it is short. It is now or never!" in my mind!

TomOfTTB 16y ago

I don't know. This seems stupid to me. I'm all for chasing your dream when you have an actual dream to chase. But to quit a good job that pays well just to randomly walk around and try to figure out what you want to do doesn't seem wise to me. It seems much wiser to wait till you have an idea that you want to pursue and then quit. That way you have more resources to devote to the idea that you're actually dedicated to.

shykes 16y ago
> That way you have more resources to devote to the idea that you're actually dedicated to. Sometimes the scarce resource is not money, but free time and mental availability. "Randomly walking around" could increase his chances of bumping into a hidden opportunity. I say go for it.
- xaviershay 16y ago
  Exactly. I suspect you can't find a dream sitting at a desk. I have plenty of savings, and plenty of earning potential - if I really get stuck (I don't believe likely) I can always pick up another job. Money is a means, not an end.
  - jimbokun 16y ago
    "I have plenty of savings..." I think this is the key. You have two years of runway to figure out what to do next (according to the blog). That money in the bank is a lot more security than any job can offer, by itself. Staying in your job for another two years might be the greater risk, when opportunity costs are taken into account.
    - Psyonic 16y ago
      Perhaps... but while the safety net can grant you freedom, it also takes away the need to succeed.
      - xaviershay 16y ago
        I'm feeling this a bit, so I'm keeping an extra eye on things to try and ensure I don't become complacent.
        Psyonic 16y ago
        Cool. I hope I didn't come across as being overly negative. I actually think what you're doing is awesome! I was just pointing out that a job isn't the only "trap" you can fall into. I know someone who acquired a million dollars in his mid-20's, but I can't say he's really living his dreams because of it. I don't think you'll have too much of a problem, looking at your track record, but it does appear you have to be careful to ensure that "I can do whatever I want" doesn't turn in to "I don't do much of anything."
  - thecircusb0y 16y ago
    Cannot money be a means to the end to justify the beginning? I work to pay off my student loans. I think that when my student loans are paid off, and my expenses are significantly lower, I can relieve myself of my job security and either relocate/travel and become a consultant/contractor maybe pursue a more fulfilling job.
  - Psyonic 16y ago
- potatolicious 16y ago
  Seems like a sledgehammer + fly situation. If your job is taking too much out of your spare time and creativity, perhaps the solution is to work less (or work on something less draining), as opposed to calling it quits altogether. I've never seen entrepreneurship as a means to escape a tedious, loathsome working life - it is a means to achieve my dreams, not a refuge from boredom. IMHO if you're striking out on your own solely because you hated your job, perhaps you worked for the wrong people, and your problem isn't with employment in general, but with your employer. I dislike the author's tone on a few points: > "A job is working on someone else’s dream." Bull. I'm working on my dream right now (one of many, but I digress). It's high-impact, and can't be done on my own (even with funding) by sheer virtue of inertia and existing infrastructure. We fought for the idea, proved its worth, and now we get to work on something game-changing, making all the important calls along the way. It's freedom, working with smart people, on your dream, with deep pockets, and the support of an army of equally talented people. > "A job is selling your time." Since when? There are lots of jobs, particularly on this side of the country (um, the west) where your performance is judged by your work and not the time on the clock (if you're even clocked!). I have no "competing motivations" - perhaps an artifact of, oh, working on things I actually desire to complete. I applaud the author for doing things his way - but I wish he didn't have to resort to denigrating the concept of employment to justify his own lifestyle.
  - cookiecaper 16y ago
    >"Since when? There are lots of jobs, particularly on this side of the country (um, the west) where your performance is judged by your work and not the time on the clock (if you're even clocked!)." I've found that most places expect at least an eight-hour day out of you, whether you're formally "clocked" or not. I think often that a salaried position is seen as an opportunity for exploitation by bosses. My last job was like that, and my co-workers just ate it up; the bosses demanded ten-hour days and other concessions and everyone just went along because since we were salaried it meant we had to do whatever they said (we were even taken to the boss's house one day to help move furniture) without any prospect of fair compensation, or something like that. I don't really get it. There may be a bit more leniency with breaks and that kind of thing at a salary job, but if you're not there before 9 and you're not still there after 5, and this happens even rarely without prior approval, your bosses aren't going to be pleased. I agree that a job can provide a way for an employee to work on "his dream", but such a situation is incredibly rare, and even rarer is the situation where, when this dream is realized through your work, you'll get due credit and compensation. Working for the man is just an all-around bad deal if you're looking to control your own life or do something big. That's just my opinion. If you're OK with a work-a-day routine, OK with even the possibility of eventual bullying from the bosses, OK with getting paid 1/4 or less of the value you actually generate, then working for someone else permanently may not be so bad, but that's not how I am, and I presume that many of us on HN have similar aversions. I say permanently because I think working for other people can be a good experience, and it's nice to get a significant amount of it under your belt; it helps you understand human dynamics and politics, can accelerate your skills and force you to learn new things, introduce you to cool people, etc., so a job isn't all bad, but I have a very hard time with the idea that I would be stuck working for someone else for the next fifty years.
bootload 16y ago
"... I'm all for chasing your dream when you have an actual dream to chase. But to quit a good job that pays well just to randomly walk around and try to figure out what you want to do doesn't seem wise to me. ..." Then you don't know Xavier. I do ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/bootload/4588097990/in/set-72157623828731047/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/bootload/4588097990/in/set-7215... He's not your conventional hacker by any sense of the word. If you're in the US and interested in Ruby and DB's maybe you can check out his DBIYF tour ~ http://www.dbisyourfriend.com/ http://www.dbisyourfriend.com/
apsurd 16y ago
To each his own. "stupid" seems like too harsh of a criticism. People have different value systems. I think it's not so good that you think so linearly. I'd argue that one's entire life is a lot of "randomly walking around trying to figure out what you want to do". Also, you are dangerously placing undue importance on obtaining some "idea" to pursue to justify quitting. Most ideas don't work out without substantial pivoting, which basically moots your supposed advantage. I'd also argue that "I want to do something other than work here" is a justifiable enough idea. Lastly, sometimes you gotta put the cart before the horse. / end idiomatic spree!
philk 16y ago
Never underestimate the addictiveness of a good job and a regular paycheck. It's very easy to get busy and have years fly by before you know it.
- kscaldef 16y ago
  You say it as if a "good job and a regular paycheck" is a bad thing, rather than something that most of the population would be happy to have.
  - staunch 16y ago
    Most of the world's population would be happy just to have food and clean water. That doesn't make me feel guilty about wanting to work hard to get more than I already have.
    - kscaldef 16y ago
      Fine, but "addictiveness" is a rather loaded word to use (which I understand wasn't your terminology, but is what I'm objecting to in the parent).
  - zacharypinter 16y ago
    While not a bad thing in general, I think a "good job and a regular paycheck" is counterproductive for those wishing to be entrepreneurs.
cstross 16y ago
to quit a good job that pays well just to randomly walk around and try to figure out what you want to do doesn't seem wise to me. It seems much wiser to wait till you have an idea that you want to pursue and then quit. If you follow that course, you'll never quit. Because nothing stops you figuring out what you really want to do with your life like being continually busy, chasing someone else's dream. Time flies when you're busy. Back when I was young and inexperienced I took some bad career advice and pushed myself through a degree in a medical profession, and then postgraduate training. With 20/20 hindsight I was utterly unsuited to the profession, temperamentally. But I was too busy to see that I was making myself unhappy (and doing a second-rate job in the process). It took 18 months of post-qualification work to get around to the idea that I ought to bail, write off the previous six years, and go back to square one, and another year to put the plan into effect. Why? Because I was busy. In the end I wasted seven years on a mistake that was clear by the end of my first year at university. You only have one life. Use it wisely. If you find you're doing something that doesn't agree with you, think very hard before you push on indefinitely: nobody's going to give you those years back.
- FreeRadical 16y ago
  But this guy wasn't continually busy, he was finishing at 4pm everyday.
  - byoung2 16y ago
    I work 7am-4pm (which means 5am-6pm if you count commute time), and though there is plenty of time to work on my own projects in the evenings, I find myself mentally drained most days, so what takes me an hour to do at work takes 2 or 3 at home in the evening. Weekends are more productive.
    - simon_ 16y ago
      Then the commute is almost as big a problem as the job itself. If you moved close to your job, you'd save 4hrs/day to work on whatever you wanted.
erikb85 16y ago
I agree and want to add that you also should consider your future. Today playing around might be a fullfilling life. But in 10-20 years you will think differently. If you don't start now to do something you can build on later, your life will just suck when you are 50. And then it will be incredibly harder to get what it is important for you if you don't create it now. Just think about how you would not have that job chance, if you didn't go to school as a child. Of course that was uncool at this age, but now you have great opportunities for the sacrifice of a part of your days back then.
petervandijck 16y ago
There's more to life than work or money. Taking some time to travel, or figure stuff out, or whatever can be the best thing ever.
quan 16y ago
I recently quit my high-paying job, in fact, today is my last day, and "randomly walk around" is exactly what I'm going to do. For most of my 27 years, I've been trying to do the "wise" thing by getting good grades, graduating from a good college, working at a good job, finishing my master, etc. For once, I want to be foolish. My number 1 reason for quitting is I want to get off the addiction of the constant paychecks. It's easy and safe, but the trade off is the predictable and unbearable daily routine. Everyday on my way to work, I know exactly which lanes to switch to on 495 for the optimal travel time. I log on and off the computer at work at roughly the same times. Once back at home, it's sad to look at the reflections of myself and the clock in the bathroom while washing my face and know that the same action happened at exactly the same moment yesterday. As for long term, I know exactly where I will be (in the best scenario) in the next 15-20 years if I continue to work for this or any other big companies. That's no way to live life if you look at the short time we have here. That's why I take the year off to travel, not only to break the daily routine, see new things, and meet new people but also to taste the danger of having no financial security to motivate myself to act. Before quitting, I've consistently worked 2-3 hours everyday after work on side projects. But the passion and focus cannot be there after being exhausted by 8 hours of work and knowing I will still get the next paycheck even if my projects fail. So now I'm excited to have my 8 hours back. Let's see how this foolish thing will work out.
- ulrich 16y ago
  So you are 27 years old (same as me)?! For how long have you been working now? I'm asking, because I am also thinking about when to quit my current job and what to do next. What holds me back are just two things. First, its the paragliding course I already paid for but didn't finish yet. And second its the feeling that leaving my job would be too early right now. I have been promoted as teamleader just one year after graduating. But still I envy people like you who are able to simply quit and start a new thing.
  - Bluem00 16y ago
    You will always be able to come up with reasons not to take risks, and they don't have to be particularly good ones as long as they give you an excuse to wait a little longer. There will never be a right moment. I recommend you evaluate whether you're happy with your current situation, and if not, then seek to change it. Your choice isn't simply between keeping the job and quitting it; perhaps you can find a different way. I was in a similar situation as you are; running a small programming team at age 27, with no real commitments. I decided to stay because the opportunity seemed too good to pass up, but I'll never know where I'd be now if I took a risk back then. Over those three years it seemed like everyone I interviewed ran their own project. Many popped back and forth between working as part of a team, and running teams several times in their career, so it's not as special an accomplishment as I'd thought at the time. Now it's three years later, and I've gone part time and started telecommuting so that I can travel wherever I want and have time to figure out what I want to do next. Your choices may vary. Good luck!
ergo98 16y ago
>It seems much wiser to wait till you have an idea that you want to pursue and then quit. Every stripper and/or prostitute, the story goes, plans on quitting once they make enough money to go to school/open that greasy spoon/move somewhere else. In reality they end up `quitting' when the system is done with them and tosses them out. 9-5ers often live out the same lie. You talk about rational choices, but what normally happens when someone has a comfortable, non-challenging job is that they start to compensate for missed excitement by filling their life with expensive habits (whether it's drugs, addiction to games and electronics, expensive cars, the cottage, etc). Soon they are completely bound to their job, those golden-handcuffs demolishing any potential they might have had. Anyways, I've got to go off and look at a new car. My current one is 2 years old and is getting a little embarrassing.
- Oxryly 16y ago
  Nice insight there; clearly spoken from direct and current experience. I think it's just one way a consistent low level fear manifests itself in our lives. Breaking out of that secure routine is not just scary by itself -- it'll dredge up a host of un-faced fears we carry around trying to avoid. I have the luxury of pointing this out from my desk in my office as I look forward to lunch hour.
  - ergo98 16y ago
    I've taken more "risks" than most, getting to a pretty comfortable position. Yet still I know that I've operated at maybe 20%, simply because I could. I remember quitting one job (giving proper notice and doing everything right to strive for something better) and one of my coworkers lauded my bravery. It struck me because I didn't see it as bravery at all. More cowardly of rotting away in a 9-5 boring position.
pvdm 16y ago
A job in a swiss patent office is hard to come by.

dmpatierno 16y ago

Two years of saved living expenses is great, but at a six figure salary, you can easily double that in 6 months. It seems a little foolish to back away so early. Though I'm sure the short-term result of quitting must be wonderful. I especially liked the anecdote about staying up weeknights to watch B-grade sci-fi. Best of luck!

xaviershay 16y ago
Sure I could double it ... but why? 2 years is far in excess of my planning capability. The effective difference between 2 and 4 for me is basically zero. (Also! Not having a job doesn't mean I don't have income. I'm still aiming for 50K in the next financial year, even if I fail I'll still meet living expenses comfortably I reckon)
- mrtron 16y ago
  Don't touch at least half of your savings for a zillion reasons. Good luck on road ahead. This article will be nice to review in the months ahead. I wrote myself a similar note when I made the leap.
  - mkramlich 16y ago
    xaviershay: I agree with mrtron in that it would be nice to see a follow-up post from you in a year or two to tell everybody what you've done, learned, how it worked out. would be educational for everybody.
    - xaviershay 16y ago
      Totally, it's on the cards
joss82 16y ago
Being foolish seems to be the purpose of the all thing, isn't it? It's my favourite advice from Steve Jobs BTW: "Stay hungry, stay foolish." Some context: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1fdeu_steve-jobs-stay-hungry-stay-foolish_tech http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1fdeu_steve-jobs-stay-hung...

drlisp 16y ago

Xavier looks like Carrot Top

ngsayjoe 16y ago
I quit my six-figure job (in Malaysia) 1 year ago as well to build my startup. It feels so liberating ever since. I haven't manage to made back the same level of income i used to make though. But somehow managed to get an angel seed and achieve ramen profitable business within 1 year. Haven't ever regretted it a single second! One thing that really pushed me to take the leap was "I have only one life, it is short. It is now or never!" in my mind!

KateKendall 16y ago

I did a similar thing recently. I had so many things I wanted to work on and no time to do them, especially while working fulltime or being tied to one location. As they say - you can always get money back, but not time or opportunities. It's not a conventional path to take, but it certainly challenges your creativity and willpower. And as Xavier put it – it's about the freedom to say yes.

thinkdifferent 16y ago

What kind of job did he had? It seems very good. Can I send them my cv :) ?

bkrausz 16y ago

I totally get the sentiment and agree with all the reasons (to varying extents), but quitting my last job, where I was in almost the exact same position, was incredibly difficult. I wouldn't have been able to leave without another incredibly compelling opportunity (which I got). Those downsides are part of every job and are only downsides if you let them be. <shameless-but-not-self-serving-plug> On a related note, if anyone in Boston wants a job as awesome as the OP's was, go work for TripAdvisor (my former employer). Hit up sanj AT tripadvisor.com with a resume ( http://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=sanj http://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=sanj )

thegyppo 16y ago

Good to see lots of Melbourne names pop up in this thread. Melbourne FTW!

jister 16y ago

>> I currently have enough assets to sustain me for about two years I think this is the actual reason why he quit. He has savings. I don't think he will do that if he doesn't have money.

deleted 16y ago
[deleted]

asmithmd1 16y ago

"A job is low risk. ... risk is shouldered by the owners of the company, and that’s why they stand to gain (or lose) a lot more." Not true, as an employee you bear all the risk of being laid-off if the company does not do well; but do not benefit from the upside.

ryan-allen 16y ago
But the business bears the risk of running into significant debt if things go bad, as an employee you don't take that risk. Often business owners have invested significant capital in order to get things going, and they are not guaranteed a return on that investment.
- asmithmd1 16y ago
  I am not arguing anything about the risks the business owners is taking, I am saying taking a job is not the low-risk, low-reward option it used to be. Years ago there was an implicit agreement when taking a job: work here for 40 years and you will not get rich but at least you will always have a job. That agreement is gone. Work for one company until you are in your 50's and you will be "laid-off" and replaced with a younger worker. Many people still think starting business is high risk compared to working for a company, but over the past 20 years the risks have changed and no longer makes sense to bear all the risk of losing your job with none of the commensurate up side of owning a business.
jakevoytko 16y ago
Looking at it from another angle, the laid-off employee loses nothing - they simply stop receiving. However, the owners are on the hook if the company goes belly-up The entrepreneurial system is organized so that the risk takers are the money makers when a company succeeds. It doesn't really make sense any other way - why else would someone start a business that might fail and cost a fortune?
- jbarham 16y ago
  A lot of those laid-off people who "simply stop receiving" their paychecks are losing their houses. And the whole point of incorporation is that if the company goes bust, the owners are not personally liable. The risk-reward incentives for being an employee vs. employer are not quite so simple as you make out.

RyanMcGreal 16y ago

Off-topic: the NYTimes-style snap-out link recommendation was really distracting - and not in a good way.

wyclif 16y ago
Me too. My exact thought was, "this is a personal blog, not the NYT." It put a dent in the initial impression I had of the blog as handrolled.
- xaviershay 16y ago
  Thanks for the feedback, it's had mixed responses. I hand rolled the snap out to copy the NYT, if that counts (it has subtle but important differences) ;)

ahoyhere 16y ago

Why are people so concerned with this guy's personal choices to spend time flaming them or lauding them? He's not telling anyone else to do it.

steveklabnik 16y ago
He did specifically say that he wanted to hear what people think, though.
- ahoyhere 16y ago
  Yes, but people respond from the stance of "HE TOLD ME TO DO IT SO YAY!" or "HE TOLD ME TO DO IT SO HE'S A STUPID ASSHOLE, JEEZ." Even if you wanted to give your opinion when somebody asks for it, there's no need for that level of emotion -- unless you take it as either encouragement or an affront to your choices, and therefore, you yourself.

agentultra 16y ago

Maybe it's just the bias lens, but it seems like the dream is to work for yourself. If everyone did that... well what would it be like? I still treat myself as a free agent when I work as a salaried employee for someone else. I am invested in what I do with my time and want to accomplish things like anyone else. I just don't find it very practical to put my wife and I through the stress of financial insecurity just so I can get a kick out of my day. That being said, I don't just work for anyone to get a paycheque (at least not anymore now that I have some years of experience behind me). I prefer jobs where I'm treated as part of a team. I like to think that the company hired me because it found my skills and experiences useful to their goals. I'm also more likely to work for a company who is working on things I am interested in working on. Some people though; they take any job they can get. They need the paycheque. You'll wear yourself in that kind of job. But sometimes it's unavoidable. The only thing I don't like about articles like this: the mention of the big-ass six-figure salary that they walked away from. If it wasn't about the money, then who are you trying to impress? "Hey guys, I could've bought a nice home in the hills and a lambourghini if I wanted to, but I'm way too cool for that." Give me a break. I understand the pursuit of happiness and so the article wasn't a total loss of time. I just think he could've changed the headline to be more appropriate to what he was actually writing about. It's too sensationalist.

pvdm 16y ago

wow! "A job is a TV that takes up even more time."

JoeAltmaier 16y ago

I've quit six figure jobs repeatedly. When the startup gets bought and you find yourself working for the man, again, and your team is resigned to their fate and the work is rote and going the wrong way, its easy. When the company has a good idea and the team is working hard, but you can see the Founder is NEVER going to take anybody's money and there is too much IP to finish in any reasonable amount of time, its much harder. But done that too. And I often had not the slightest idea what to do next. But something comes up - each time its easier, you know more people.

plinkplonk 16y ago
"I've quit six figure jobs repeatedly." So have I. My last job at MegaCorp paid 6 figures in US dollars in Bangalore. That is a lot of money hereabouts and I did confess it did give me a pang to give it up - All I had to do to earn it was put on a corporate face and attend meetings all day. " But something comes up " yes it does. Hacking Robotics/Computer Vision Code. Couldn't be happier. But I think a key factor is whether you have a wife/kids to support. Many talented folks continued at MegaCorp for the steady salary checques. I respect that decision.
- JoeAltmaier 16y ago
  Have wife, three kids. No, family's just the common excuse. Put money in the bank, enough for 6 months, and you are free from that. If you work for the guy that pays you the most, there's a word for that: prostitute. You think you're deciding where to work; actually they are, by bidding for your labor. You don't take charge of your life UNTIL you take the job for reasons other than money.

pinchyfingers 16y ago

Working to build another person's dream is okay if you believe in the dream. If work provides challenges that are personally rewarding then being an employee is a good proposition. Good employers are inspiring and they respect the needs of their employees. I would never want to employ a person simply for their utility as capital. Business value does come first when choosing to employ someone, but with the spectrum of choices available to employees in the United States, an employer should offer opportunities for personal growth. Employment with meaningful challenges is a decent alternative to self-employment.

Maven911 16y ago

Does anyone know what he used to do and where to earn 100k a year ?

xaviershay 16y ago
Ruby on Rails developer, primarily. Heaps of demand at the moment.

mike463 16y ago

I'd quit a six figure job... for a seven figure job. :)

mkramlich 16y ago

I agree with many of the individual factors he cited, but I think that quitting a job, especially a 6-figure job, after only 6 months is neither wise nor mature nor ethical, at least under the conditions he cited. It's not like it was an abusive situation or there was any significant dysfunction there. So I suspect he's on the young side. Bright maybe, but young. That said, I'm not knocking his aspirations or desires.

xaviershay 16y ago
How many months do you feel would be sufficient? What extra information should I be looking for in those months?
- mkramlich 16y ago
  In the context of traditional jobs, it's generally a good idea to stay at a job anywhere from 1-5 years, at minimum, before voluntarily quitting -- and this is speaking in general terms, because there is no perfect number, etc. If you're laid off or fired, it's different. If the work situation is abusive or dysfunctional in some way, again, it's different. You have to show empathy also and look at it from an employer's point of view too: it takes a lot of effort to find somebody, especially find somebody good, and then there's ramp up time on both sides of the fence. As long as both parties make a good faith effort to make it a good situation, it's generally bad form for an employee to quit that early without significant mitigating circumstances in his life (family/health problems, etc.) Not saying you should stay there 10 years, that's too long in this field and economy. Partly it's a judgement thing, and partly comes from perspective gained from past experience. If you ever want to work for somebody else again it will be a black mark against you in many employer's minds, for example -- again, without there being significant relevant negative circumstances at play. Also, unless you're a young adult, all of this would have been knowable at 0 months rather than waiting to the 6 month marker to realize them. So again, if you're a younger adult, it makes more sense and is more excusable. Been there, done that, have the metaphorical t-shirt. :)

billywayne 16y ago

is this what they call a "first-world problem"?

steveh72 16y ago

It's worth pointing out he's probably talking about Australian dollars. Not that it makes a difference to his message.