5 ms·

Most apps these days run on Android, too, which makes using a single-platform framework like this a lot harder to justify. It's the same reason you don't see m

by panic 9y ago

Most apps these days run on Android, too, which makes using a single-platform framework like this a lot harder to justify. It's the same reason you don't see many games using SpriteKit -- it just doesn't make sense when you know you'll need to support Android in the future. I wonder if it would make sense for Apple itself to support frameworks like ARKit and SpriteKit on Android. I think it would make people a lot more comfortable relying on them.

astrodust 9y ago
Being iPhone only didn't stop Instagram from launching, getting huge, and branching out to other platforms. If this allows you to make a quicker prototype, it's a big deal.
- daxfohl 9y ago
  That was when Steve Jobs was still alive. Things have changed. iOS isn't the gold mine it used to be.
  - astrodust 9y ago
    It's still a massively popular and profitable platform, though the easy money is harder to find.
  - Zeppin 9y ago
    If iOS was a goldmine when Steve Jobs died than it's a much larger one now. When Jobs died in 2011 the iPhone represented 40% of Apple's revenue and generated $3.6 billion in App Store revenue. In 2016, the iPhone represented 60% of Apple's revenue and the App Store generated $28 billion. Hardware chart https://edge.alluremedia.com.au/uploads/businessinsider/2017/03/CBInsights_Apple_revenue_mix_over_time.jpg https://edge.alluremedia.com.au/uploads/businessinsider/2017... App Store revenue 2011 https://www.google.cz/amp/s/9to5mac.com/2011/07/07/apple-issues-app-store-stats-15b-downloads-425000-apps-nearly-3-6b-revenue/amp/ https://www.google.cz/amp/s/9to5mac.com/2011/07/07/apple-iss... App Store revenue in 2016 https://www.google.cz/amp/www.zdnet.com/google-amp/article/apples-app-store-2016-revenue-tops-28-billion-mark-developers-net-20-billion/ https://www.google.cz/amp/www.zdnet.com/google-amp/article/a...
    - astrodust 9y ago
      The only downside to this wild success is that profit is a lot more concentrated than it used to be. It's really hard to bust onto the charts as an outsider when there's so many incumbents. For example, sucks to be someone who launched a game this week when Monument Valley 2 took over everything.
sidlls 9y ago
Mobile apps in general seem to be a race to the bottom from a business standpoint and Android is much more so that than Apple. I strongly dislike both platforms, and generally harbor a very negative opinion of Apple in general, but if I were to venture into mobile development I'd target Apple first and worry about Android (much) later.
- weeks 9y ago
  From what I've gathered this totally depends on your market. Creating a paid app or an app targeting US University students? iOS first. Creating an ad supported app or targeting an international market? Android first or use a framework that supports compiling to both platforms.
  - MBCook 9y ago
    There's also the possibility that this ends up being very useful to the business market; either for in-house apps or for apps sold to businesses. If it solves the problem they have they'd be willing to pay real money as opposed to the problem of getting consumers to spend.
  - pier25 9y ago
    Indeed. I work for an education company in Mexico. We target upper class schools and the distribution between iOS and Android is roughly 50/50 in our market.
cageface 9y ago
Apple keeps doubling down on platform specific services and APIs but as their market share dwindles this becomes increasingly untenable. Porting Apple Music to Android was a step in the right direction but they have a long way to go in the new world where services are more important than devices.
- algesten 9y ago
  How do you mean it dwindles? It seems to hold steady and increase in some countries. This is a somewhat recent figure I found. https://9to5mac.com/2017/01/11/ios-market-share-kantar/ https://9to5mac.com/2017/01/11/ios-market-share-kantar/
  - cageface 9y ago
    Depends what stats you consider: http://fortune.com/2017/05/23/apple-iphone-gartner-market-share/ http://fortune.com/2017/05/23/apple-iphone-gartner-market-sh... But the essential point is that nobody can afford to ignore Android and building to iOS-specific APIs doesn't make sense.
    - threeseed 9y ago
      Of course Apple and developers can choose to ignore Android. The market within the iOS space is huge and if building an iOS only app using ARKit is more profitable then why not ? It's all about ROI. There isn't an equivalent for ARKit on Android and building one would be costly and time consuming.
      - razorunreal 9y ago
        There is, it's called project tango and they have had development devices for sale for a while (probably a year or so).
        j2bax 9y ago
        How large of a device marketshare could a developer count on at this point from Tango to justify investing heavily in that platform? One thing is for sure, developers can count on a significant share of paying customers if they go with ARKit.
nxcho 9y ago
Unreal Engine and Unity is going to have ARKit support. If your ambition is to make an AR app for both iOS and Android I suspect that one of those engines are better. I don't believe giving ARKit to away makes sense for Apple at all. It is, from what I can see, a pretty advanced technology and widespread adoption of it on other platforms will not help them selling more iPhones.
- threeseed 9y ago
  Of course it makes sense and of course it will help sell phones. This only works on iPhones/iPads with the A9 or A10 chip. Which means that if you want to use AR then you need to upgrade from your iPhone 6. It also will create a suite of AR apps which only run on iOS.
  - MBCook 9y ago
    From what I looked up based on the processors it would be the 6S, the 7, the new one this fall, all iPad pros, and the 2017 iPad.
    - threeseed 9y ago
      It says on the page ARKit only runs on A9/A10: https://developer.apple.com/arkit/ https://developer.apple.com/arkit/
      - MBCook 9y ago
        Oops, you're right, not the iPhone 6. I've edited the comment to fix it.
    - ClassyJacket 9y ago
      I see no reason it wouldn't work on the SE too, as it uses the same camera and SoC as the iPhone 6S.
      - MBCook 9y ago
IBM 9y ago
It absolutely does not make sense for Apple to support this on Android. AR is something that uniquely leverages assets that Apple has: its various AR related acquisitions (Metaio, FlyBy Media, Faceshift, Emotient, WiFiSLAM, PrimeSense) and most importantly their prowess in chip design. It is trivial for the Android ecosystem to replicate an Instagram for their platform, it will be much more difficult to do this for AR and thus will be a meaningful source of competitive advantage. There are real economic barriers to having the necessary hardware for AR. High-end Android phones don't ship anywhere near the numbers of iPhones to give it the scale required to make the necessary investments in hardware and software worth it (both from OEMs and Google). And that will ultimately limit the opportunity and market for developers, disincentivizing them to invest in it. This is an area where Apple's scale, margins and ability to deploy new technologies and see meaningful adoption from users and developers (think about how fast Touch ID rolled down into the entire iPhone/iPad installed base, setting it up for Apple Pay years later) pulls up the ladder on would-be competitors.
- panic 9y ago
  You're probably right, but I think it's important to note the difference between Touch ID (a user feature) and ARKit (a developer feature). Users won't know or care about ARKit if developers don't adopt it.
  - anextio 9y ago
    Developers are to ARKit what merchants are to Apple Pay. Users wouldn't care about Apple Pay if merchants didn't take it as payment.
    - evanmoran 9y ago
      Exactly right. This isn't for iPads, it's for glasses two years from now.
      - threeseed 9y ago
        Actually based on rumours the glasses were coming soon like this year.
pier25 9y ago
Plus you have cross platform solutions that are as good if not better. From game engines such as Unity which have plenty of AR plugins, to SkiaSharp (port of Google's Skia) using Xamarin.
warrenmiller 9y ago
Yes it does, eCPMs are about 5 times higher on iOS.

by panic 9y ago

astrodust 9y ago

Being iPhone only didn't stop Instagram from launching, getting huge, and branching out to other platforms. If this allows you to make a quicker prototype, it's a big deal.

daxfohl 9y ago
That was when Steve Jobs was still alive. Things have changed. iOS isn't the gold mine it used to be.
- astrodust 9y ago
  It's still a massively popular and profitable platform, though the easy money is harder to find.
- Zeppin 9y ago
  If iOS was a goldmine when Steve Jobs died than it's a much larger one now. When Jobs died in 2011 the iPhone represented 40% of Apple's revenue and generated $3.6 billion in App Store revenue. In 2016, the iPhone represented 60% of Apple's revenue and the App Store generated $28 billion. Hardware chart https://edge.alluremedia.com.au/uploads/businessinsider/2017/03/CBInsights_Apple_revenue_mix_over_time.jpg https://edge.alluremedia.com.au/uploads/businessinsider/2017... App Store revenue 2011 https://www.google.cz/amp/s/9to5mac.com/2011/07/07/apple-issues-app-store-stats-15b-downloads-425000-apps-nearly-3-6b-revenue/amp/ https://www.google.cz/amp/s/9to5mac.com/2011/07/07/apple-iss... App Store revenue in 2016 https://www.google.cz/amp/www.zdnet.com/google-amp/article/apples-app-store-2016-revenue-tops-28-billion-mark-developers-net-20-billion/ https://www.google.cz/amp/www.zdnet.com/google-amp/article/a...
  - astrodust 9y ago
    The only downside to this wild success is that profit is a lot more concentrated than it used to be. It's really hard to bust onto the charts as an outsider when there's so many incumbents. For example, sucks to be someone who launched a game this week when Monument Valley 2 took over everything.

sidlls 9y ago

Mobile apps in general seem to be a race to the bottom from a business standpoint and Android is much more so that than Apple. I strongly dislike both platforms, and generally harbor a very negative opinion of Apple in general, but if I were to venture into mobile development I'd target Apple first and worry about Android (much) later.

weeks 9y ago
From what I've gathered this totally depends on your market. Creating a paid app or an app targeting US University students? iOS first. Creating an ad supported app or targeting an international market? Android first or use a framework that supports compiling to both platforms.
- MBCook 9y ago
  There's also the possibility that this ends up being very useful to the business market; either for in-house apps or for apps sold to businesses. If it solves the problem they have they'd be willing to pay real money as opposed to the problem of getting consumers to spend.
- pier25 9y ago
  Indeed. I work for an education company in Mexico. We target upper class schools and the distribution between iOS and Android is roughly 50/50 in our market.

cageface 9y ago

Apple keeps doubling down on platform specific services and APIs but as their market share dwindles this becomes increasingly untenable. Porting Apple Music to Android was a step in the right direction but they have a long way to go in the new world where services are more important than devices.

algesten 9y ago
How do you mean it dwindles? It seems to hold steady and increase in some countries. This is a somewhat recent figure I found. https://9to5mac.com/2017/01/11/ios-market-share-kantar/ https://9to5mac.com/2017/01/11/ios-market-share-kantar/
- cageface 9y ago
  Depends what stats you consider: http://fortune.com/2017/05/23/apple-iphone-gartner-market-share/ http://fortune.com/2017/05/23/apple-iphone-gartner-market-sh... But the essential point is that nobody can afford to ignore Android and building to iOS-specific APIs doesn't make sense.
  - threeseed 9y ago
    Of course Apple and developers can choose to ignore Android. The market within the iOS space is huge and if building an iOS only app using ARKit is more profitable then why not ? It's all about ROI. There isn't an equivalent for ARKit on Android and building one would be costly and time consuming.
    - razorunreal 9y ago
      There is, it's called project tango and they have had development devices for sale for a while (probably a year or so).
      - j2bax 9y ago
        How large of a device marketshare could a developer count on at this point from Tango to justify investing heavily in that platform? One thing is for sure, developers can count on a significant share of paying customers if they go with ARKit.

nxcho 9y ago

Unreal Engine and Unity is going to have ARKit support. If your ambition is to make an AR app for both iOS and Android I suspect that one of those engines are better. I don't believe giving ARKit to away makes sense for Apple at all. It is, from what I can see, a pretty advanced technology and widespread adoption of it on other platforms will not help them selling more iPhones.

threeseed 9y ago
Of course it makes sense and of course it will help sell phones. This only works on iPhones/iPads with the A9 or A10 chip. Which means that if you want to use AR then you need to upgrade from your iPhone 6. It also will create a suite of AR apps which only run on iOS.
- MBCook 9y ago
  From what I looked up based on the processors it would be the 6S, the 7, the new one this fall, all iPad pros, and the 2017 iPad.
  - threeseed 9y ago
    It says on the page ARKit only runs on A9/A10: https://developer.apple.com/arkit/ https://developer.apple.com/arkit/
    - MBCook 9y ago
      Oops, you're right, not the iPhone 6. I've edited the comment to fix it.
  - ClassyJacket 9y ago
    I see no reason it wouldn't work on the SE too, as it uses the same camera and SoC as the iPhone 6S.
    - MBCook 9y ago

IBM 9y ago

It absolutely does not make sense for Apple to support this on Android. AR is something that uniquely leverages assets that Apple has: its various AR related acquisitions (Metaio, FlyBy Media, Faceshift, Emotient, WiFiSLAM, PrimeSense) and most importantly their prowess in chip design. It is trivial for the Android ecosystem to replicate an Instagram for their platform, it will be much more difficult to do this for AR and thus will be a meaningful source of competitive advantage. There are real economic barriers to having the necessary hardware for AR. High-end Android phones don't ship anywhere near the numbers of iPhones to give it the scale required to make the necessary investments in hardware and software worth it (both from OEMs and Google). And that will ultimately limit the opportunity and market for developers, disincentivizing them to invest in it. This is an area where Apple's scale, margins and ability to deploy new technologies and see meaningful adoption from users and developers (think about how fast Touch ID rolled down into the entire iPhone/iPad installed base, setting it up for Apple Pay years later) pulls up the ladder on would-be competitors.

panic 9y ago
You're probably right, but I think it's important to note the difference between Touch ID (a user feature) and ARKit (a developer feature). Users won't know or care about ARKit if developers don't adopt it.
- anextio 9y ago
  Developers are to ARKit what merchants are to Apple Pay. Users wouldn't care about Apple Pay if merchants didn't take it as payment.
  - evanmoran 9y ago
    Exactly right. This isn't for iPads, it's for glasses two years from now.
    - threeseed 9y ago
      Actually based on rumours the glasses were coming soon like this year.

pier25 9y ago

Plus you have cross platform solutions that are as good if not better. From game engines such as Unity which have plenty of AR plugins, to SkiaSharp (port of Google's Skia) using Xamarin.

warrenmiller 9y ago

Yes it does, eCPMs are about 5 times higher on iOS.