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The Wingnut AR demo that Apple showed during WWDC featuring the Unreal Engine was just mindblowing! Thankfully, it's available on Unreal's Youtube channel so yo
by krat0sprakhar 9y ago
The Wingnut AR demo that Apple showed during WWDC featuring the Unreal Engine was just mindblowing! Thankfully, it's available on Unreal's Youtube channel so you can still watch if you don't have Safari or the app - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S14AVwaBF-Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S14AVwaBF-Y
- tommoor 9y agoAt least Google uses web standards for their video
- millstone 9y agoI wasn't aware of that, what format does Google use for its live streams? I know that YouTube on Chrome uses VP9, which is not a web standard - or at least not more of a web standard than HTTP Live Streaming (which is what Apple uses for its keynote).
- lern_too_spel 9y agoYou're confusing video encoding with streaming protocol. There are no web standard video encodings.
- millstone 9y agoYou're right, I am legitimately confused. If there are no web standard video encodings, is it therefore wrong to say that "Google uses web standards for their video?" What exactly is Google doing better?
- PetahNZ 9y agoNot forcing us to use Safari
- millstone 9y agoI get that you don't want to use Safari, but actually "forcing us to use Safari" is exactly what Google did. Google chose not to implement HTTP Live Streaming, and therefore it's not available in Chrome. Microsoft made the other choice, which is why it works in Edge. The double standard here is really quite breathtaking. Apple doesn't implement a feature: Apple's fault. Google doesn't implement a feature: Apple's fault too.
- lern_too_spel 9y agoHLS requires the MPEG2-TS container format, which is not royalty free and therefore has no chance of becoming a web standard or of being implemented by Mozilla on free platforms. I don't see the double standard. All but one browser on GP's platform support the royalty free option. Only Safari on his platform supports the encumbered option, and he doesn't want to be forced to use it. On my own preferred platform, no browsers support HLS. Since the votes on this thread won't let me reply: @pjmlp: I choose to use a platform where developer experience is the primary goal because developing software is both my vocation and avocation and why I am reading "Hacker News." If I wanted a walled garden media consumption toy, I would get a LeapPad. Look, we can snark all day, but that doesn't change the conclusion that tommoor was right about web standards. @millstone: There are no royalty-required formats that are web standards for a reason: to make the web free and open to all. That is why it is not a red herring. Bringing Google into it, on the other hand, is — whether Google pays the fees has no bearing on whether the format should be a web standard. Apple chose not to implement hardware decoding for the unencumbered format. All other major consumer hardware manufacturers have.
- pjmlp 9y ago> On my own preferred platform, no browsers support HLS. Then chose platforms where the overall desktop experience is a primary goal of developers.
- millstone 9y ago"Royalty free" seems like a red herring. I'm not familiar with MPEG2-TS in particular, but Chrome already happily plays H.264 on macOS, plus there is an explicit exception in H.264 license for non-paid (including ad-supported) content. I don't see how implementing HLS would increase Google's licensing cost in any way. I appreciate the free software position. It seems MPEG-DASH is indeed better suited for it, though maybe only slightly [1]. (Regardless, turns out Apple did not release anything as copyleft this year, so maybe it's better that free software purists could not have watched the video?) The case for "encumbered" options is simple: it's what's decoded in hardware, for users who prefer their device to last the entire video. [1] http://www.streamingmedia.com/Articles/News/Online-Video-News/MPEG-LA-Announces-MPEG-DASH-Patent-Portfolio-License-114873.aspx http://www.streamingmedia.com/Articles/News/Online-Video-New...
- lern_too_spel 9y agoYouTube uses MPEG-DASH as its adaptive streaming protocol, which works over standard web protocols with royalty free codecs and containers, unlike HLS. As for why there isn't a web standard video encoding and container, all the major browser vendors except one have announced support for VP9 and its successor and Webm.
- pjmlp 9y agoIt is a Apple developer conference for software developers that care about making beautiful applications that take full advantage of native experiences on Apple platforms. Any developer on this community can watch the video.
- lvillani 9y agoI can still be an outsider and be genuinely interested in what their platform has to offer and, maybe, later decide that I want to invest in their platform. I become a better developer, Apple gains a new developer, everyone wins. Forcing people to use macOS to view recorded sessions or events goes against that.
- threeseed 9y agoIt's forcing people to use browsers that support HTTP Live Streaming which is Safari (on any platform) and Microsoft Edge. You can also use VLC to watch it.
- lvillani 9y agoI know. However, the default experience is a little box that says "Streaming is available in Safari and the WWDC app". Now I have to go out of my way to learn that they stream via HLS, obtain the stream's URL and feed it to VLC. † Compare this with Microsoft's and Google's videos (available through Channel9 and YouTube, respectively) that are accessible "virtually" from every operating system and device. If your goal is to attract new developers to the platform, maybe adopting a more widespread industry standard (such as DASH, which all other browsers implement) is probably the way to go, IMO. -- † By the way, the box also breaks the "Copy Video Location" menu item, so I have to open the inspector or install an extension to find out what the real URL is.
- lultimouomo 9y agoIt does seem like a lost opportunity to do some outreach though. It's not hard to provide streams both in HLS and DASH, and streaming the developer conference to everyone could surely attract new developers to their platform (and not only developers, the same thing applies to presentations of new devices and consumer software). To me it really looks like a statement against people without macs; Apple doesn't care about them, not even in its own interest of making money. They won't speak to you as long as you don't have an iDevice, full stop.
- mikenew 9y ago"can still watch if you don't have Safari or the app" ugh
- paul9290 9y agoIt's just a 3D videogame and pardon I guess I'm missing the point of an AR video game vs. just sitting down and playing a 360 degree video game?
- jayd16 9y agoIt's great because it does away with convenient touch controls and adds the fun of filming a table with an iPad.
- King-Aaron 9y agoAlthough to be honest, this is close to how I always wanted warhammer 40k to be...
- abrookewood 9y agoYes! Combining miniatures with overlaid graphics and handling the dice roles etc would be awesome.
- _pmf_ 9y agoFinally, tabletop gaming gets the multi-billion dollar backing it deserves!
- onion2k 9y agoA very well lit table in a dark room, just like no one has in their house.
- mirekrusin 9y agoThe only downside parents now need to buy compatible coffee table :)
- aylmao 9y agoThe content itself wasn't that big of a deal; it's the fact that the AR technology worked so well, and is available to anyone using the SDK is what was impressive and hype-worthy. Doing AR from scratch is a huge endeavour but this should make it simple enough so that we start seeing more applications using it for more useful stuff.
- blazespin 9y agoHow was it mindblowing? I thought it was a pretty poor example of what AR can do. It was just a 3d game on a tabletop. Pokemon Go is a lot better, and it's pretty basic.
- jensvdh 9y agoMicrosoft did this a couple of years ago with Hololens and Minecraft..
- leggomylibro 9y agoShhh. And don't mention the Surface, either...
- vacri 9y agoWell, Apple has just released the 'smart keyboard' for its ipads, the 'smart' bit being that with a physical connection, "it doesn't need charging and automatically transfers data". Such innovation! Something keyboards have been lacking for decades...
- oceanswave 9y agoI know I have been using thin and light portable keyboards that magnetically snap to my PC that also aligns the power/data connection since the early 80's
- vacri 9y agoSo you're saying the 'smart' bit is the magnets? Because I don't know what keyboards you were using, but the power and data connections were always aligned when I connected up my keyboards. Unfortunately, the old-fashioned keyboards also worked when they weren't hard up against the screen - thank god we have these new 'smart' keyboards that have to lie flush against the screen to work.
- AceJohnny2 9y agoYou mean the $3000 headset that can only be used for AR? https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/hololens/buy https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/hololens/buy
- jayd16 9y ago
- jayd16 9y agoThis is nice but what's unique about this? Is it significantly better or more performant? Is it just nice to have an integrated solution? I'd love to see a breakdown of ARKit vs something like Vuforia. Here's a video with the equivalent functionality to the WWDC demo -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvE_7filGsY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvE_7filGsY
- coldtea 9y ago>This is nice but what's unique about this? Is it significantly better or more performant? Is it just nice to have an integrated solution? Ignoring all that other stuff, it's officially sanctioned and supported, part of the platform, requires no external libs, has Cocoa level documentation, and tons of developers will be using it very soon.
- gurkendoktor 9y agoIt all depends on whether Apple makes ARKit a priority, though. Apple has advertised SpriteKit on various occasions, then mostly broke it in iOS 9.0/9.1 [1], [2]. Game Center went down once a single game (Letterpress) started using it as designed [3]. What will you do if ARKit breaks in iOS 12.0? If you use an third-party lib, at least you can roll back to an earlier version, or even fix the bug yourself if it is open source. I would stay as far away from Apple as possible when it comes to gamedev tools. [1]: https://stackoverflow.com/a/33260910 https://stackoverflow.com/a/33260910 [2]: http://geeky.gent/reasons-to-not-use-spritekit-for-game/ http://geeky.gent/reasons-to-not-use-spritekit-for-game/ [3]: http://kotaku.com/5955318/apples-game-center-seems-to-be-malfunctioning-today-blame-letterpress http://kotaku.com/5955318/apples-game-center-seems-to-be-mal...
- moj 9y ago> part of the platform, requires no external libs [...] Sadly this also means Apple will only update it in subsequent versions of the OS. This is a big deal when choosing a target platform, e.g. ARKit 11 vs ARKit 12. For example when iOS 12 comes out your target audience will be split, some with ARKit 11 and some with 12. You'll have to decide if you want the new features in 12 or ability to run on devices still using iOS 11. Compare with other game platforms, which insulate you from underlying tech changes. For example a Unity app can be updated and use the latest Unity features, even on an old iOS. [FWIW Apple could update ARKit independently of iOS, but that's not been their pattern]
- amelius 9y agoI don't get the point of seeing anything in the background of the table, in this case the audience. Why not paint it with sky, then it's less distracting? Oh, I get it, then it's not AR. Well, maybe AR is not such a good fit in this case to begin with.
- ehsankia 9y agoThe it's just watching a 360 youtube video on your phone. This is still new and doesn't quite make full use, but there are many reason why you'd want to see the environment. For one, it gives a sense of scale. For example if you put a real life size dinosaur, seeing the surrounding allows you to understand the scale better. Next up, the AR application could very well interact with the world too, which brings new possibilities. These are pretty new technology and no one knows the best way to use it yet. Maybe in the future we'll start putting a sky in the background. Maybe we'll find better ways to use AR. Both AR and VR are still in their infancy.
- amelius 9y agoGood point, except that in this example, you don't understand the scale better (since all the people and spaceships fit on a table). I believe (for this example) an immersive experience, with VR goggles would be much better.
- ehsankia 9y agoI definitely agree. The examples Google gave of Tango were much more inline with the points I was speaking of. But again, I'd love to see what new creative things others come up with. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q83gKk5jbto https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q83gKk5jbto
- moduspol 9y agoIt demonstrates the power they have with AR. If they can show a town appear on a table with air strikes coming in in realtime, it implies that simpler more practical AR use cases will be much easier. Prior to this, as a developer, you might think AR is limited to what Pokemon GO and the first example (like a cup of coffee on a table) show. After seeing this, if you were thinking of doing anything simpler than what they were showing, you'd likely see it as much more feasible than you previously did and perhaps look into including some of those features. And this was at WWDC (their developer conference), so it certainly applies to a developer audience.
- nihonde 9y agoThis kind of thing is the least interesting application of AR in my opinion. I want high-quality information overlays about the real world. I do understand that some people just want Starcraft on a coffee table, but it seems like a low ambition for Apple to showcase.
- agmcleod 9y agowould be exhausting to micro all those little units across a table by hand! :D
- naravara 9y ago>This kind of thing is the least interesting application of AR in my opinion. I want high-quality information overlays about the real world. I do understand that some people just want Starcraft on a coffee table, but it seems like a low ambition for Apple to showcase. It makes for a compelling proof of concept. Having a lot of individual things interacting with the environment independently is most of what you need, technically, for the high-quality overlays you're talking about. If you can do the former you can do the latter, it's just a sexier way of showing off the capabilities.
- plg 9y agoHow do you play the game while holding the ipad with both hands?
- j2bax 9y agoHaving designed an AR experience for children and doing quite a bit of research into this problem a few years ago... You incorporate thumb controls on the sides of the device where you would naturally hold it. You use physical movement of the tablet to move things in the environment. Its limiting, but it works and can allow for fun interaction with the environment.