6 ms·

Does it suggest that leadoff guys will be cheaper in the future? The next moneyball trend will be fast guys who can accurately place hits?

Lukeas14 9y ago
Possibly. My guess is that only the exceptionally good leadoff guys will make it to a team, making them more expensive. Other teams might rather have a slugger hitting first than an average fast guy. I guess we'll have to wait and see.
- saghm 9y ago
  > Other teams might rather have a slugger hitting first than an average fast guy. I remember seeing a Red Sox-Blue Jays game at Fenway Park last year where the Blue Jays had Jose Bautista hitting first, which definitely fits this description.
  - rpeden 9y ago
    If I remember correctly, that was actually Bautista's idea when the team was in a slump. The manager decided to give it a try, and the team started winning so Bautista saw quite a few games batting leadoff.
    - saghm 9y ago
      That's really cool! Honestly, it seemed really weird to me at first, but I guess if you don't have a tradional leadoff type guy, putting someone who gets on a base a lot is the next best thing, and Bautista certainly walks a lot.
adventured 9y ago
Fast guys that can place hits have always been extremely rare (and will always be), even when they were considered a lot more valuable. There may be ten guys in the last 50 years that could do that at a high level, consistently, for a career.
- paulcole 9y ago
  Ichiro, Clemente, Rose who else? Gwynn (who was small and fast in the beginning of his career)? Henderson had a lot of pop and wasn't notably fast. Edgar Martinez had no speed at all but could hit for an insane average.
pgodzin 9y ago
There's been a trend recently to put high OBP bats at leadoff regardless of their speed (see Kyle Schwarber)
- jjuel 9y ago
  And Schwarber as leadoff was a horrendous failure. See his .162 avg and .289 obp this year.
  - pgodzin 9y ago
    Sure this year he has been terrible. But he was also the leadoff hitter much of the year he was healthy on the WS-winning Cubs last year. Other examples are Carlos Santana, George Springer, etc http://www.espn.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/79308/leadoff-hitter-revolution-is-bringing-slow-power-guys-up-front http://www.espn.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/79308/leadoff-h...
  - spike021 9y ago
    Yet he's still in the top 5 for the All Star pick; meh.
    - pgodzin 9y ago
      All Star voting doesn't mean anything other than popularity
      - spike021 9y ago
        Exactly. That then means actual performance doesn't matter to many fans, which is unfortunate considering how interesting this kind of data is and how players use it to improve their game.
        pgodzin 9y ago
        Of course performance matters, just not for voting for a meaningless game (that was stupidly given meaning). Schwarber isn't going to be suddenly become thrilled with how well his season is going just because he finishes fifth in ASG voting.

Lukeas14 9y ago

Possibly. My guess is that only the exceptionally good leadoff guys will make it to a team, making them more expensive. Other teams might rather have a slugger hitting first than an average fast guy. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

saghm 9y ago
> Other teams might rather have a slugger hitting first than an average fast guy. I remember seeing a Red Sox-Blue Jays game at Fenway Park last year where the Blue Jays had Jose Bautista hitting first, which definitely fits this description.
- rpeden 9y ago
  If I remember correctly, that was actually Bautista's idea when the team was in a slump. The manager decided to give it a try, and the team started winning so Bautista saw quite a few games batting leadoff.
  - saghm 9y ago
    That's really cool! Honestly, it seemed really weird to me at first, but I guess if you don't have a tradional leadoff type guy, putting someone who gets on a base a lot is the next best thing, and Bautista certainly walks a lot.

adventured 9y ago

Fast guys that can place hits have always been extremely rare (and will always be), even when they were considered a lot more valuable. There may be ten guys in the last 50 years that could do that at a high level, consistently, for a career.

paulcole 9y ago
Ichiro, Clemente, Rose who else? Gwynn (who was small and fast in the beginning of his career)? Henderson had a lot of pop and wasn't notably fast. Edgar Martinez had no speed at all but could hit for an insane average.

pgodzin 9y ago

There's been a trend recently to put high OBP bats at leadoff regardless of their speed (see Kyle Schwarber)

jjuel 9y ago
And Schwarber as leadoff was a horrendous failure. See his .162 avg and .289 obp this year.
- pgodzin 9y ago
  Sure this year he has been terrible. But he was also the leadoff hitter much of the year he was healthy on the WS-winning Cubs last year. Other examples are Carlos Santana, George Springer, etc http://www.espn.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/79308/leadoff-hitter-revolution-is-bringing-slow-power-guys-up-front http://www.espn.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/79308/leadoff-h...
- spike021 9y ago
  Yet he's still in the top 5 for the All Star pick; meh.
  - pgodzin 9y ago
    All Star voting doesn't mean anything other than popularity
    - spike021 9y ago
      Exactly. That then means actual performance doesn't matter to many fans, which is unfortunate considering how interesting this kind of data is and how players use it to improve their game.
      - pgodzin 9y ago
        Of course performance matters, just not for voting for a meaningless game (that was stupidly given meaning). Schwarber isn't going to be suddenly become thrilled with how well his season is going just because he finishes fifth in ASG voting.