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The concern for Britain and other countries ought to be the loss of sovereignty that accompanies a decline in manufacturing of the magnitude the article describ

by rrggrr 9y ago

The concern for Britain and other countries ought to be the loss of sovereignty that accompanies a decline in manufacturing of the magnitude the article describes. When a country's infrastructure and supply chain is dominated by imported goods a country's ability to make decisions in its citizens best interests declines. Its ability to make fair trade deals declines. Its national security declines.

kasey_junk 9y ago
Nothing in the article suggests there has been a decline in manufacturing output in Britain but a decline in jobs. I don't know the situation there enough to know what is happening, but in the USA for instance the decline of jobs in manufacturing wasn't accompanied with a decline in output, quite the opposite.
- _delirium 9y ago
  Depends heavily on how you measure. U.S. manufacturing looks good by value of the manufactured products, because it remains strong in a handful of high-value manufacturing segments. That's an important measure, but may or may not capture what everyone is interested in. Besides employment, other measures may include, for example, how dependent is the country on imports for items vital to national security? An exclusive dependence on imported steel can have downsides even though steel is now a low-value commodity. Another measure is the diversity of the overall manufacturing industry. Does a country manufacture a whole range of products, or is it highly specialized in a few segments? The latter can still be good by value, but may be more brittle, and make it harder to start new companies in certain fields due to a lack of a local ecosystem (the U.S. has nothing like the Shenzhen ecosystem in electronics, for example).
- rrggrr 9y ago
  Yes, the very same point I raise in another comment on this thread. And the difference is this: Manufacturing output is an almost meaningless metric unless its tied to jobs, balance of trade or some other "facts on the ground" statistic. For example, the loss of British manufacturing jobs is strongly correlated to a growing British trade deficit, an enlarged British welfare system, and a concerning British debt-to-gdp ratio. It doesn't matter how many Trent jet engines Rolls Royce exports if the bulk of inputs are imported and there is little impact on jobs. But, because of the high price, those engine can have quite an impact on reported manufacturing output.

by rrggrr 9y ago

kasey_junk 9y ago

Nothing in the article suggests there has been a decline in manufacturing output in Britain but a decline in jobs. I don't know the situation there enough to know what is happening, but in the USA for instance the decline of jobs in manufacturing wasn't accompanied with a decline in output, quite the opposite.

_delirium 9y ago
Depends heavily on how you measure. U.S. manufacturing looks good by value of the manufactured products, because it remains strong in a handful of high-value manufacturing segments. That's an important measure, but may or may not capture what everyone is interested in. Besides employment, other measures may include, for example, how dependent is the country on imports for items vital to national security? An exclusive dependence on imported steel can have downsides even though steel is now a low-value commodity. Another measure is the diversity of the overall manufacturing industry. Does a country manufacture a whole range of products, or is it highly specialized in a few segments? The latter can still be good by value, but may be more brittle, and make it harder to start new companies in certain fields due to a lack of a local ecosystem (the U.S. has nothing like the Shenzhen ecosystem in electronics, for example).
rrggrr 9y ago
Yes, the very same point I raise in another comment on this thread. And the difference is this: Manufacturing output is an almost meaningless metric unless its tied to jobs, balance of trade or some other "facts on the ground" statistic. For example, the loss of British manufacturing jobs is strongly correlated to a growing British trade deficit, an enlarged British welfare system, and a concerning British debt-to-gdp ratio. It doesn't matter how many Trent jet engines Rolls Royce exports if the bulk of inputs are imported and there is little impact on jobs. But, because of the high price, those engine can have quite an impact on reported manufacturing output.