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If somebody is so much of a non threat to society he can be housed in a voluntary prison camp he shouldn't be in prison at all. Establish a real community servi

If somebody is so much of a non threat to society he can be housed in a voluntary prison camp he shouldn't be in prison at all. Establish a real community service program, not one that you can pay your way out of, and sentence them to service hours. There are dozens of ways to allow a petty law breaker to contribute.

danielam 9y ago
The threat a person poses is only one consideration. Justice requires punishment (btw, mercy only makes sense in light of punishment as justly deserved; you can only be merciful to someone who deserves punishment). If the crime committed is proportional with imprisonment, even if that person is not a threat, there is nothing unjust about that in principle. (The question of whether there are people in prison who ought not to be is a particular consideration not relevant here.) There are perhaps practical considerations that can affect the form the punishment may take, of course, but the point here is that threat posed is not the only or even the most essential consideration where just punishment is concerned.
tomjen3 9y ago
Lets say I run some scam against tax-preparation companies and get away with millions over some months but are caught red-handed. Clearly I am not dangerous to society, but at the same time I can never really work of the money. Would you still put me in the community program? Or take the other case, I am high on drugs and crash a car with several of my kids in it. At the same time I clearly didn't mean to harm them - you wouldn't have problem with me having the kids if I wasn't on drugs. Assume further (because this is often the case) that I skip out of rehab. What would you do with me?
- DanBC 9y ago
  > Or take the other case, I am high on drugs and crash a car with several of my kids in it. At the same time I clearly didn't mean to harm them - you wouldn't have problem with me having the kids if I wasn't on drugs. Assume further (because this is often the case) that I skip out of rehab. What would you do with me? Everything has to be done in the children's best interest. In this situation hypothetical_tomjen3 has put their children in danger. This means any approach covers several points: 1) Firm reminder that continued use of drugs while you're supposed to be in control of the children means the state is left with little option but to remove the children from you 2) Removal of the children can be avoided if you comply with rehab 3) Provide good quality, evidence based rehab 4) Provide access to the children (with supervision if needed) 5) Remove driving licence for a year as a punishment. The driving licence can only be regained after successfully completing rehab with clean tests for some time. This particular example you've given is a public health problem, not a criminal justice problem.

danielam 9y ago

The threat a person poses is only one consideration. Justice requires punishment (btw, mercy only makes sense in light of punishment as justly deserved; you can only be merciful to someone who deserves punishment). If the crime committed is proportional with imprisonment, even if that person is not a threat, there is nothing unjust about that in principle. (The question of whether there are people in prison who ought not to be is a particular consideration not relevant here.) There are perhaps practical considerations that can affect the form the punishment may take, of course, but the point here is that threat posed is not the only or even the most essential consideration where just punishment is concerned.

tomjen3 9y ago

Lets say I run some scam against tax-preparation companies and get away with millions over some months but are caught red-handed. Clearly I am not dangerous to society, but at the same time I can never really work of the money. Would you still put me in the community program? Or take the other case, I am high on drugs and crash a car with several of my kids in it. At the same time I clearly didn't mean to harm them - you wouldn't have problem with me having the kids if I wasn't on drugs. Assume further (because this is often the case) that I skip out of rehab. What would you do with me?

DanBC 9y ago
> Or take the other case, I am high on drugs and crash a car with several of my kids in it. At the same time I clearly didn't mean to harm them - you wouldn't have problem with me having the kids if I wasn't on drugs. Assume further (because this is often the case) that I skip out of rehab. What would you do with me? Everything has to be done in the children's best interest. In this situation hypothetical_tomjen3 has put their children in danger. This means any approach covers several points: 1) Firm reminder that continued use of drugs while you're supposed to be in control of the children means the state is left with little option but to remove the children from you 2) Removal of the children can be avoided if you comply with rehab 3) Provide good quality, evidence based rehab 4) Provide access to the children (with supervision if needed) 5) Remove driving licence for a year as a punishment. The driving licence can only be regained after successfully completing rehab with clean tests for some time. This particular example you've given is a public health problem, not a criminal justice problem.