6 ms·

Core NFC beta

46 points by runesoerensen 9y ago

op00to 9y ago
Does this mean that iOS devices might be able to use something like a Yubikey? Reading the Yubikey Neo spec sheet, it looks like the answer very well may be yes!
- ghostly_s 9y ago
  Not sure I understand the use-case here...for 2FA? Or something else? Seems like someone's phone and Yubikey would generally be in the same location, anyway, so it's not much of a second factor, no?
  - op00to 9y ago
    Most people carry their 2nd factor on a keychain, which is usually in close proximity to their phones - anyway, I think the benefit is that we can stop keeping one factor on a device that's potentially remotely exploitable (google auth on a phone)
- wtfrmyinitials 9y ago
  YubiKey NEO owner here. I can't seem to get Core NFC to read my device unfortunately. It is completely possible that I have something misconfigured however. It is definitely something that someone more experienced than me should explore further.
jlawer 9y ago
I am not familiar enough with NFC, would this allow standard NFC payments through apps OTHER then apple pay? I know Apple has been getting some pressure (regulatory) about banks not being able to use their own apps and having to pay for Apple Pay.
- swrobel 9y ago
  Hopefully this will allow NFC tap for airplane boarding passes instead of those awful screen scanners, as one example.
- dan1234 9y ago
  >Detect NFC tags and read messages that contain NDEF data. Looks like it just allows the iPhone to read other tags. >Reading NFC NDEF tags is supported on iPhone 7 and iPhone 7 Plus. I wonder why the iPhone 6/6S and Watch aren't supported?
  - asendra 9y ago
    Yes, that is a bummer. It means that all those NFC iphonse 6/6s in countries without Apple pay will never use the capabilities. Just stupid.
- mgw 9y ago
  Not out of the box, since normally the payment terminal is the reader. Theoretically this could be switched such that the payment terminals would send out a unique ID over NFC, which the iPhone would then relay to the terminal via a server.
callumjones 9y ago
> Detect NFC tags and read messages that contain NDEF data. Sadly it looks like this is read-only, which would eliminate companies like Clipper from implementing it?
MBCook 9y ago
I've been wondering… Could this allow an iPhone to take Apple Pay from another iPhone? It seems to me like apple should be able to make it possible to accept Apple Pay when someone is using an iPad (for example) as a terminal.
- doublerebel 9y ago
  You can do this with Android. I was going to put it in our app but I pivoted.
- astrange 9y ago
  The receiver for NFC payments needs more electric power than the transmitter, because for a credit card it actually powers the other side. I think. Someone from Square told me this at a party once. iOS 11 will have person-to-person Apple Pay: https://www.apple.com/ios/ios-11-preview/ https://www.apple.com/ios/ios-11-preview/
huangc10 9y ago
Been waiting a few years for this. I wanted to start something back in 2013 which detects NFC tags for ID but had to introduce QR scanning to get around the iOS issue.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
gergles 9y ago
> Reading NFC NDEF tags is supported on iPhone 7 and iPhone 7 Plus. There is no reason to limit this functionality to the 7. Very disappointing.
- rtpg 9y ago
  One small reason is that Japan's Felica standard was only supported from the iPhone 7. In Japan it's been common practice for certain smart cards to have Android equivalents (most of them here ship with NFC), so you have a decent app ecosystem that supports it. For example I can get a Starbucks app on my phone and use that through NFC instead of a physical card
  - sirn 9y ago
    FeliCa is only supported in iPhone 7 sold in Japan AFAIK (the one with 総務省指定 marking on the back)
    - darren_ 9y ago
      No idea this person's track record (nor the record of the japanese writer being cited) but this site asserts that all iPhones 7 have the same NFC chip and that a future iOS version (11?) will enable it worldwide. https://atadistance.net/2017/04/03/iphone-7s-taking-felica-worldwide/ https://atadistance.net/2017/04/03/iphone-7s-taking-felica-w...
      - sirn 9y ago
        Interesting. I've searched a bit and apparently this is due to Japan law requiring device that emissed over 500 µV/m within 3 meters to have a regulatory mark.[1] [1]: http://www.sankei.com/smp/economy/news/160920/ecn1609200029-s1.html http://www.sankei.com/smp/economy/news/160920/ecn1609200029-...
      - kanjobb 9y ago
        I don't know about my track record either But all the iPhone 7 and Apple Watch 2 teardowns by Chipworks and all, in Japan and other countries, revealed the same NXP make NFC chip. Journalist Nobi was basically saying that he thinks the timing is right for Apple to go wide and enable FeliCa worldwide in the new iPhone models later this year. I think he is right. The law cited in the comment below has been amended to allow the Japanese government regulatory mark in the screen credits rather than etched on the case. I have also heard from various sources that JR East did not have the ability to deal with Suica Apple Pay support issues from visitors abroad and asked Apple not to activate FeliCa for devices sold outside of Japan. Word is that this is not an issue any more. Do not have access to iOS 11 until the public beta but would love to know if FeliCa works on all iPhone 7 devices or not.
a9175 9y ago
It is really a big thing. Get a home appliance be smart with a only tap. Ntag I2C talks to mcu(home appliances), iPhone becomes the brain. cheapest and intuitive solution to build a smart appliance.LoL
gumby 9y ago
This seems to be unidirectional -- am I reading this correctly? I'd like to be able to use my phone to authenticate to the keycard system at work (basically clone my keycard). What I did is carefully cut my keycard down and mount the NFC device into a hole I cut in my case. The security czar heard about this and was not impressed and she disabled my card :-(
- oceanswave 9y ago
  Why would she do that when it serves the same purpose? One could also argue that your method decreases loss and increases discoverability (as you'll probably be less prone to misplacing your phone and if you do, you'll notice it more quickly)
  - gumby 9y ago
    The same reason random websites have stupid password policies I suppose. It does prevent her from getting my card back when I leave...but clearly as they can be disabled that doesn't matter.
jquave 9y ago
I've been playing with this a bit, I posted my findings on a tutorial here: http://jamesonquave.com/blog/core-nfc-tutorial-for-nfc-on-ios-devices/ http://jamesonquave.com/blog/core-nfc-tutorial-for-nfc-on-io...

46 points by runesoerensen 9y ago

Does this mean that iOS devices might be able to use something like a Yubikey? Reading the Yubikey Neo spec sheet, it looks like the answer very well may be yes!

ghostly_s 9y ago
Not sure I understand the use-case here...for 2FA? Or something else? Seems like someone's phone and Yubikey would generally be in the same location, anyway, so it's not much of a second factor, no?
- op00to 9y ago
  Most people carry their 2nd factor on a keychain, which is usually in close proximity to their phones - anyway, I think the benefit is that we can stop keeping one factor on a device that's potentially remotely exploitable (google auth on a phone)
wtfrmyinitials 9y ago
YubiKey NEO owner here. I can't seem to get Core NFC to read my device unfortunately. It is completely possible that I have something misconfigured however. It is definitely something that someone more experienced than me should explore further.

jlawer 9y ago

I am not familiar enough with NFC, would this allow standard NFC payments through apps OTHER then apple pay? I know Apple has been getting some pressure (regulatory) about banks not being able to use their own apps and having to pay for Apple Pay.

swrobel 9y ago
Hopefully this will allow NFC tap for airplane boarding passes instead of those awful screen scanners, as one example.
dan1234 9y ago
>Detect NFC tags and read messages that contain NDEF data. Looks like it just allows the iPhone to read other tags. >Reading NFC NDEF tags is supported on iPhone 7 and iPhone 7 Plus. I wonder why the iPhone 6/6S and Watch aren't supported?
- asendra 9y ago
  Yes, that is a bummer. It means that all those NFC iphonse 6/6s in countries without Apple pay will never use the capabilities. Just stupid.
mgw 9y ago
Not out of the box, since normally the payment terminal is the reader. Theoretically this could be switched such that the payment terminals would send out a unique ID over NFC, which the iPhone would then relay to the terminal via a server.

callumjones 9y ago

> Detect NFC tags and read messages that contain NDEF data. Sadly it looks like this is read-only, which would eliminate companies like Clipper from implementing it?

MBCook 9y ago

I've been wondering… Could this allow an iPhone to take Apple Pay from another iPhone? It seems to me like apple should be able to make it possible to accept Apple Pay when someone is using an iPad (for example) as a terminal.

doublerebel 9y ago
You can do this with Android. I was going to put it in our app but I pivoted.
astrange 9y ago
The receiver for NFC payments needs more electric power than the transmitter, because for a credit card it actually powers the other side. I think. Someone from Square told me this at a party once. iOS 11 will have person-to-person Apple Pay: https://www.apple.com/ios/ios-11-preview/ https://www.apple.com/ios/ios-11-preview/

huangc10 9y ago

Been waiting a few years for this. I wanted to start something back in 2013 which detects NFC tags for ID but had to introduce QR scanning to get around the iOS issue.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

gergles 9y ago

> Reading NFC NDEF tags is supported on iPhone 7 and iPhone 7 Plus. There is no reason to limit this functionality to the 7. Very disappointing.

rtpg 9y ago
One small reason is that Japan's Felica standard was only supported from the iPhone 7. In Japan it's been common practice for certain smart cards to have Android equivalents (most of them here ship with NFC), so you have a decent app ecosystem that supports it. For example I can get a Starbucks app on my phone and use that through NFC instead of a physical card
- sirn 9y ago
  FeliCa is only supported in iPhone 7 sold in Japan AFAIK (the one with 総務省指定 marking on the back)
  - darren_ 9y ago
    No idea this person's track record (nor the record of the japanese writer being cited) but this site asserts that all iPhones 7 have the same NFC chip and that a future iOS version (11?) will enable it worldwide. https://atadistance.net/2017/04/03/iphone-7s-taking-felica-worldwide/ https://atadistance.net/2017/04/03/iphone-7s-taking-felica-w...
    - sirn 9y ago
      Interesting. I've searched a bit and apparently this is due to Japan law requiring device that emissed over 500 µV/m within 3 meters to have a regulatory mark.[1] [1]: http://www.sankei.com/smp/economy/news/160920/ecn1609200029-s1.html http://www.sankei.com/smp/economy/news/160920/ecn1609200029-...
    - kanjobb 9y ago
      I don't know about my track record either But all the iPhone 7 and Apple Watch 2 teardowns by Chipworks and all, in Japan and other countries, revealed the same NXP make NFC chip. Journalist Nobi was basically saying that he thinks the timing is right for Apple to go wide and enable FeliCa worldwide in the new iPhone models later this year. I think he is right. The law cited in the comment below has been amended to allow the Japanese government regulatory mark in the screen credits rather than etched on the case. I have also heard from various sources that JR East did not have the ability to deal with Suica Apple Pay support issues from visitors abroad and asked Apple not to activate FeliCa for devices sold outside of Japan. Word is that this is not an issue any more. Do not have access to iOS 11 until the public beta but would love to know if FeliCa works on all iPhone 7 devices or not.

a9175 9y ago

It is really a big thing. Get a home appliance be smart with a only tap. Ntag I2C talks to mcu(home appliances), iPhone becomes the brain. cheapest and intuitive solution to build a smart appliance.LoL

gumby 9y ago

This seems to be unidirectional -- am I reading this correctly? I'd like to be able to use my phone to authenticate to the keycard system at work (basically clone my keycard). What I did is carefully cut my keycard down and mount the NFC device into a hole I cut in my case. The security czar heard about this and was not impressed and she disabled my card :-(

oceanswave 9y ago
Why would she do that when it serves the same purpose? One could also argue that your method decreases loss and increases discoverability (as you'll probably be less prone to misplacing your phone and if you do, you'll notice it more quickly)
- gumby 9y ago
  The same reason random websites have stupid password policies I suppose. It does prevent her from getting my card back when I leave...but clearly as they can be disabled that doesn't matter.

jquave 9y ago

I've been playing with this a bit, I posted my findings on a tutorial here: http://jamesonquave.com/blog/core-nfc-tutorial-for-nfc-on-ios-devices/ http://jamesonquave.com/blog/core-nfc-tutorial-for-nfc-on-io...