5 ms·

There's a huge difference between being asked if it's ok to share your data and just sharing it by default. Additionally, Apple doesn't offer any kind of way fo

There's a huge difference between being asked if it's ok to share your data and just sharing it by default. Additionally, Apple doesn't offer any kind of way for anyone but you to decrypt your data.

jacobolus 9y ago
I think he’s referring to aggregated anonymized usage data, which people can opt in or out of with no effect on function. (This is different than messages, etc., which are stored on Apple’s servers but end-to-end encrypted.)
- dkonofalski 9y ago
  I know he is, but that's not the same thing as what he's implying and, even then, Apple's solution is opt-in while Microsoft's was on by default.
  - tinus_hn 9y ago
    If Apples solution is opt-in, Microsofts is in. For many things there just is no opting out.
    - dkonofalski 9y ago
      How can you say that when Windows 10 had Cortana turned on by default? Siri is not enabled by default on a Mac (just like all the other services) and you have to purposely choose to have them turned on during install.
      - addicted 9y ago
        I'm pretty sure I was asked to opt in to Cortana during install. During the setup phase so it may be true of OEMs as well.
        rubatuga 9y ago
        What are you talking about, you can't turn it off
        cptskippy 9y ago
        Sure you can, during setup or any time afterward since day one. It's even easier in the Creator's update.
- eugeniub 9y ago
  Messages are not currently stored on Apple servers unless you enable iCloud backup.
  - MBCook 9y ago
    As of today they will be! And synced across devices. Hooray. (still encrypted)
cptskippy 9y ago
So you've never actually installed Windows 10 then? Because from the beginning it's asked for permission to share your data for things like Cortona, the touch keyboard, ink, voice, etc. Based on user response they've evolved the interface and made it clearer removing anti-patterns. This is the same stuff Apple asks for permissions on. Microsoft doesn't let you turn off telemetry data entirely. Things like hardware configurations and installed drivers are still send, albeit anonymously so that Microsoft can better support the OS. Again Apple does something similar. Spotlight and Safari send data back to Apple even when you're making queries against other services (e.g. DuckDuckGo Searches). And like Microsoft, there's no UI to disabled it.
- 0x0 9y ago
  You can turn off spotlight and safari and siri suggestions and there should be no traffic to Apple after that.
- CamperBob2 9y ago
  Yes, Microsoft has a long history of providing user privacy and control settings and then ignoring or reverting them.
  - cptskippy 9y ago
    Absolutely and so does everyone else. Google is great at asking/nagging you to turn features back on that you've turned off in Android. And every time you update iOS, if you have Location Services or some other feature like iCloud turned off then you get nagged to turn them back on.
- dkonofalski 9y ago
  Yes, I have. I installed it 2 weeks before it was released to the public as part of the Windows Insider program and then again on several machines after release and, most recently, in the Creator's Update. Until there was a huge backlash against MS, all of those things were opt-out and turned on by default, including Cortana and the ink features. Apple does not turn any of these on by default, nor have they ever, and you have to opt-in to those features to use them. Spotlight and Safari send anonymous data back that is parsed and separated so that it can't be used to identify the machine, user, or account that they came from. That's wildly different from the MS approach even after all the changes made on MS's end.

There's a huge difference between being asked if it's ok to share your data and just sharing it by default. Additionally, Apple doesn't offer any kind of way for anyone but you to decrypt your data.

jacobolus 9y ago

I think he’s referring to aggregated anonymized usage data, which people can opt in or out of with no effect on function. (This is different than messages, etc., which are stored on Apple’s servers but end-to-end encrypted.)

dkonofalski 9y ago
I know he is, but that's not the same thing as what he's implying and, even then, Apple's solution is opt-in while Microsoft's was on by default.
- tinus_hn 9y ago
  If Apples solution is opt-in, Microsofts is in. For many things there just is no opting out.
  - dkonofalski 9y ago
    How can you say that when Windows 10 had Cortana turned on by default? Siri is not enabled by default on a Mac (just like all the other services) and you have to purposely choose to have them turned on during install.
    - addicted 9y ago
      I'm pretty sure I was asked to opt in to Cortana during install. During the setup phase so it may be true of OEMs as well.
      - rubatuga 9y ago
        What are you talking about, you can't turn it off
        cptskippy 9y ago
        Sure you can, during setup or any time afterward since day one. It's even easier in the Creator's update.
eugeniub 9y ago
Messages are not currently stored on Apple servers unless you enable iCloud backup.
- MBCook 9y ago
  As of today they will be! And synced across devices. Hooray. (still encrypted)

cptskippy 9y ago

So you've never actually installed Windows 10 then? Because from the beginning it's asked for permission to share your data for things like Cortona, the touch keyboard, ink, voice, etc. Based on user response they've evolved the interface and made it clearer removing anti-patterns. This is the same stuff Apple asks for permissions on. Microsoft doesn't let you turn off telemetry data entirely. Things like hardware configurations and installed drivers are still send, albeit anonymously so that Microsoft can better support the OS. Again Apple does something similar. Spotlight and Safari send data back to Apple even when you're making queries against other services (e.g. DuckDuckGo Searches). And like Microsoft, there's no UI to disabled it.

0x0 9y ago
You can turn off spotlight and safari and siri suggestions and there should be no traffic to Apple after that.
CamperBob2 9y ago
Yes, Microsoft has a long history of providing user privacy and control settings and then ignoring or reverting them.
- cptskippy 9y ago
  Absolutely and so does everyone else. Google is great at asking/nagging you to turn features back on that you've turned off in Android. And every time you update iOS, if you have Location Services or some other feature like iCloud turned off then you get nagged to turn them back on.
dkonofalski 9y ago
Yes, I have. I installed it 2 weeks before it was released to the public as part of the Windows Insider program and then again on several machines after release and, most recently, in the Creator's Update. Until there was a huge backlash against MS, all of those things were opt-out and turned on by default, including Cortana and the ink features. Apple does not turn any of these on by default, nor have they ever, and you have to opt-in to those features to use them. Spotlight and Safari send anonymous data back that is parsed and separated so that it can't be used to identify the machine, user, or account that they came from. That's wildly different from the MS approach even after all the changes made on MS's end.