9 ms·
Thumbs up for Apple distinguishing themselves by their pro-privacy stance, as opposed to MS, who don't have anything to win by Win10's excessive "telemetry" IMH
by tannhaeuser 9y ago
Thumbs up for Apple distinguishing themselves by their pro-privacy stance, as opposed to MS, who don't have anything to win by Win10's excessive "telemetry" IMHO.
- ch4ck 9y agoInternet Explorer has tracking protection since IE9.
- ocdtrekkie 9y agoGoing to my IE right now to activate it, I have to say this is a janky solution. It opens the Add-ons window, where you can see you have no Tracking Protection Lists. Then you can click to browse the add-on gallery for them, and then you have to scroll down and pick a list from a set of options. While this is flexible, open, and that's all good, the lack of a common sense default and a multi-step setup process is probably why like... even I am not using this right now. If Apple does this by default, it's gonna make a huge dent in Google Analytics' numbers, whereas probably almost nobody uses the feature in IE.
- tpush 9y ago"it's gonna make a huge dent in Google Analytics' numbers". Very unlikely, since almost nobody uses desktop Safari.
- cpeterso 9y agoThis feature will surely show up in iOS Safari, which would have a big impact.
- alwillis 9y agoIt's already in iOS 11 beta: https://twitter.com/webkit/status/871834286286139392 https://twitter.com/webkit/status/871834286286139392
- gchokov 9y agoLol.
- alwillis 9y agoIt’s obviously not true that nobody uses Safari on Apple’s laptops and desktops. Apple’s Mac sales have doubled since 2008 and is in the top 5 when it comes to PC shipments: http://www.asymco.com/2016/11/02/wherefore-art-thou-macintosh/ http://www.asymco.com/2016/11/02/wherefore-art-thou-macintos... Shipping ~30 million Macs a year certainly isn't almost nobody.
- piyush_soni 9y agoHe isn't talking about the number of macs sold though. Market share of Desktop Safari according to NetMarketShare [0] in May 2017 was 3.56%. [0] : https://www.netmarketshare.com/browser-market-share.aspx?qprid=0&qpcustomd=0 https://www.netmarketshare.com/browser-market-share.aspx?qpr...
- alwillis 9y agoWeb advertising is such a cutthroat and low margin business that having 2–3% of all browser users become untrackable is a big deal. Safari on iOS obviously has significantly higher market share on mobile and the intelligent tracker blocking is part of iOS 11 beta.
- piyush_soni 9y agoYes, it will be a big deal when it comes to mobile.
- amt528 9y agoIf you're interested, I created and maintain a tracking protection list based on the Ghostery and Disconnect filter lists. It's concise, fast, and better than anything in the IE gallery. https://amtopel.github.io/tpl/ https://amtopel.github.io/tpl/
- ocdtrekkie 9y agoIE isn't really a browser I use heavily personally. Has Microsoft carried the feature forward to Edge, or are they relying on extensions from the Store for that?
- miles 9y agoThey are completely different beasts. Internet Explorer merely offers the option to enable[1] "Do Not Track", which websites and advertisers are free to ignore[2], while Safari's new ad tracker blocker "uses machine learning to identify trackers, segregate the cross-site scripting data, put it away so now your privacy — your browsing history — is your own"[3]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do_Not_Track#Internet_Explorer_10_default_setting_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do_Not_Track#Internet_Explorer... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do_Not_Track#Effectiveness https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do_Not_Track#Effectiveness [3] https://techcrunch.com/2017/06/05/apple-adds-a-tracker-blocker-to-desktop-safari/ https://techcrunch.com/2017/06/05/apple-adds-a-tracker-block...
- k-mcgrady 9y agoAlso worth pointing out that Safari has had the 'do not track' feature for years and Twitter recently announced they are going to start ignoring it (a good example of how useless it is). So this new protection is very necessary and a great USP for Safari.
- ocdtrekkie 9y agoYou are actually incorrect. Tracking Protection refers to an IE feature that lets you set "Tracking Protection Lists", which block traffic to specified domains and URLs. You can see a bit about them here: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh273400(v=vs.85).aspx https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh273400(v=vs.85).a... The whole "Do Not Track" default thing was, of course, a huge fiasco, as Google and others chose to ignore IE's default usage of it.
- amt528 9y agoI don't know why this has been downvoted. Tracking Protection Lists are one of the best and unsung features of IE. People don't realize that they're different from Do Not Track.
- Flimm 9y agoDo you have to set it up manually? How is this better than downloading one of the privacy-protecting extensions available for most desktop browsers?
- pippy 9y agoMost sites don't obey the do not track header. Edge on the other hand is much more nefarious, by default it sends all data sent by POST requests to Microsoft. I was surprised to find Bing sending data from people who use Edge on my site to try and improve their search results. There are so many security and privacy issues with this it's not funny at all.
- Flimm 9y agoI've never heard that Edge sends absolutely all POST requests to any website to Microsoft as well. Could you share an article or something proving this?
- cptskippy 9y agoYou're joking right? Factory reset your iPhone sometime and note all of the prompts to share and access your data. The only difference between MS and Apple is that Microsoft made the mistake of presenting everything all on one screen instead of breaking it up over 5 or 10 prompts as you use the device.
- dkonofalski 9y agoThere's a huge difference between being asked if it's ok to share your data and just sharing it by default. Additionally, Apple doesn't offer any kind of way for anyone but you to decrypt your data.
- jacobolus 9y agoI think he’s referring to aggregated anonymized usage data, which people can opt in or out of with no effect on function. (This is different than messages, etc., which are stored on Apple’s servers but end-to-end encrypted.)
- dkonofalski 9y agoI know he is, but that's not the same thing as what he's implying and, even then, Apple's solution is opt-in while Microsoft's was on by default.
- tinus_hn 9y agoIf Apples solution is opt-in, Microsofts is in. For many things there just is no opting out.
- dkonofalski 9y agoHow can you say that when Windows 10 had Cortana turned on by default? Siri is not enabled by default on a Mac (just like all the other services) and you have to purposely choose to have them turned on during install.
- alternativetoo 9y agoHmmm. https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/03/isps-say-your-web-browsing-and-app-usage-history-isnt-sensitive/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/03/isps-say-your-we... > CTIA is the main lobbyist group representing mobile broadband providers such as AT&T, Verizon Wireless, T-Mobile USA, and Sprint. It doesn't just represent them, Apple is also a member: https://www.ctia.org/about/our-members https://www.ctia.org/about/our-members
- alternativetoo 9y ago5 downvotes huh; anyone able to explain how the above is compatible with a strong pro-privacy stance? That's like saying you're a vegetarian, except for saturday noon.
- eridius 9y agoApple may be a member of CTIA, and CTIA may have argued for a particular anti-privacy stance, but that doesn't mean Apple supports that stance. There are a lot of members of CTIA, and CTIA presumably lobbies for a lot of things, not just ISP privacy rules.
- alternativetoo 9y agoMay be a member? They are. And I tried looking for an statement by Apple on that issue, couldn't find one. So until I see one, I'll say the lobby group speaks for them. Is the money that lobby groups works with organized in such a way that Apple's money doesn't go towards this particular thing? If not, what does "not supporting that stance" even mean? That they outsourced their fight for it, so that they can have the nasty outcome and stay morally pure, that as long as there is some bending over backwards possibility of Apple being against it, they're against it? > There are a lot of members of CTIA, Apple is a giant, not just one member among hundreds. If they are quiet on this, it has their support. Or are you saying they might not even be aware? Just didn't find it important enough to scream bloody murder about it? No matter how you try to spin it, can you spin it into something really good? > and CTIA presumably lobbies for a lot of things, not just ISP privacy rules. Unless you're meaning to say the also have a part of the budged for lobbying for the opposite of this effort I can only ask "yes, and?".
- mtgx 9y agoIt's also a real shame they're doing this before Mozilla. Mozilla already has Tracking Protection but only for Private Windows. It's like Mozilla can't even embrace its privacy stance fully.
- ianlevesque 9y agoLike their entire revenue stream comes from search deals, who all depend on advertising.
- flukus 9y agoI didn't realize it was only activated in private windows. Now that you've made me notice I consider this misleading, on the settings page it says nothing about being private windows only.
- kbrosnan 9y agoIt most certainly does say that this only applies to private windows, "Use Tracking Protection in Private Windows" [1]. If you want the always using tracking protection you can set privacy.trackingprotection.enabled to true in about:config or install the disconnect extension. [1] https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/settings-privacy-browsing-history-do-not-track https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/settings-privacy-browsi...
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- whoami_nr 9y agoYou can enable Tracking Protection in Firefox for normal browsing windows in the settings->privacy tab
- infinityplus1 9y agoDoes not appear for me. It's only for the private windows.
- rakshithbekal 9y agoare you stupid? edge has had tracker blocker for over two years now. Funny since safaris been out for ages.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- sctb 9y agoPersonal attacks like this are not OK on Hacker News. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html
- real-hacker 9y agoApple has every reason to do so, as their revenue doesn't come from ads. But I guess Google also has the motivation to enable this in Chrome, to make other ad networks less effective (and Google ads more effective). If it happens, what does this mean for the internet advertising business?
- Vinnl 9y agoI recently realised that any company taking on Google (e.g. Apple, Mozilla, ...) that is afraid they won't be able to take them on in areas like machine learning or sheer size, is realising, rightfully so, that being pro-privacy is the one thing they can compete on with Google that Google will never be able to imitate. Pretty sweet, actually.
- codyb 9y agoI think a big thing about AI with Apple is the fact that their stance on privacy makes it a bit harder to compete with the harvested data sets of Google. From what I understand though, according to the reactions on the papers they released a bit back, they're not doing so poorly. That being said, and I've never used Cortana or Alexa, but I hear they're pretty decent compared to Siri.
- Vinnl 9y agoExactly, I think they figure that if they have to harvest data themselves and try to beat Google at its own game, they have a larger chance of losing than if they concede on quality by not harvesting data (as much), but try to offset that by being privacy-conscious. And yeah, perhaps they'll still be able to do a pretty decent job that might not give them too much of a disadvantage compared to Google. You often see, I think, that with a few years delay many machine learning advancements can be reproduced offline.