6 ms·

Food as medicine

42 points by sr2 9y ago

jschwartzi 9y ago
I stopped reading when the author admitted that every point he had made in the first two paragraphs about diet causing depression were based on observational studies for which it is not strictly possible to draw such conclusions.
- problems 9y ago
  I too almost quit and posted a comment complaining after the first few paragraphs, but fortunately I read a bit further first. They go into "Teasing out the cause from the correlation" which actually talks about the design of a study to do so. Seems like a fairly good approach, wish they would have made it clear that this was the direction from earlier, but eh, probably my fault for being lazy and having no attention span anymore.
- maneesh 9y ago
  you exited right before he started talking about causual (non-correlative/observational) studies
- lolc 9y ago
  Quote from the article, a bit further down: "Our recent trial was the first intervention study to examine the common question of whether diet will improve depression."
amelius 9y ago
> your brain really does want you to eat more veggies Meat/fish is also important for the brain as it is a good source of vitamin B12. Even a slight deficiency of this vitamin can cause mental problems. This is something to be aware of when following a vegetarian diet.
- wyldfire 9y ago
  What are non meat dietary sources of B12? Or does it mean you'd need to consider supplements?
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - JoeAltmaier 9y ago
    This list seems to think its present in some dishes? http://www.dietandfitnesstoday.com/vegetables-high-in-vitamin-b12.php http://www.dietandfitnesstoday.com/vegetables-high-in-vitami...
  - adrianN 9y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_B12#Sources https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_B12#Sources Supplements mainly.
  - alex_duf 9y ago
    An interesting anecdote about B12 is that it's actually coming from bacteria, usually found in the ground. Animals are rich in B12 because they eat grass. Technically if you don't wash your vegetables you would get more B12, but you would also increase your chances of catching a bad bug. B12 isn't synthesised by any animals or plant, we just get it by proxy. (and by the way, industrially raised cattle who don't see the light of day are supplemented in B12 just so you don't have to) So to come back to your original question, I have my B12 mainly from: - Marmite (if you fancy that, but I would understand if you disliked it very much) - Some supplements flakes to put on my salads (byproduct of beer I believe, something like Engevita). It doesn't look like it but I actually enjoy it on my greens (lettuce, cucumber, or any salad) - The very occasional meat/fish. I'm neither vegan nor vegetarian, but I changed my diet to consider these as a treat.
    - goraw 9y ago
      You are correct: Animals and plants don't synthesize B12, bacteria do. However, these bacteria are also found in the small intestine of humans. So you might want to add them to your list of contributors. Check out this study [1]. This fact is usually not mentioned in the livestock industry fear-mongering propaganda ("You will eventually die without meat"). [1] http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v283/n5749/abs/283781a0.html http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v283/n5749/abs/283781a0...
KitDuncan 9y ago
Not only is a plant based diet healthy, and every study that tells otherwise is obviously paid by the livestock industry; it's also the only environmentally sustainable diet. I really don't get how so many highly intelligent people acknowledge those facts and still put their tastebuds over everything else. It's not like vegan food can't be absolutely delicious either.
- ihsw2 9y ago
  How do you argue that an environmentally sustainable diet is important to someone that has no concern for environmental sustainability, nor any interest in such things? Also, why do you assume highly intelligent people are predisposed to care about environmental sustainability?
  - KitDuncan 9y ago
    Well obviously if health, ethics and environmental sustainability aren't a concern to you, then I don't expect you to go on a plant based diet. Many otherwise intelligent people do care about the environment though (driving electric cars) and still eat meat and animal products.
    - ihsw2 9y ago
      One can go on a plant-based diet for health benefits alone with complete disregard for environmental sustainability, and by the same token one can live an ethical life without regard for environmental sustainability. I'm still confused -- why do you assume highly intelligent people are predisposed to caring about environmental sustainability?
  - JoeAltmaier 9y ago
    Because sustaining the environment is important to all our survival?
    - nxc18 9y ago
      Evidence? I'm all for environmental sustainability, but there are very few people who would have their survival threatened by any environmental changes in their lifetime. For those few on an island somewhere who very well could be threatened in their lifetime, there is no intervention that will prevent that change - the damage is already done. Looking further than that, technology has historically found solutions and we seem to get better at technology every day. Beyond that, climate change is just 'change' - the new may be just as livable as the old, albeit with significant differences in e.g. population distribution. If you think about what sustainability means, being unsustainable isn't all that bad; it just means you'll have to change at some point, either when you have a choice or when you don't. In the absolutely terminal case, where we don't make any effort to be sustainable, we're looking at lifestyle changes and maybe a population contraction - not the survival of the species. Sustainability is nice and good - who likes change, really? - but there is no case to be made for it being an issue of survival.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
cryodesign 9y ago
The following story is for anyone who thinks you can't get strong or be a body builder on a plant-based only diet: Jim Morris - 78 year old vegan body builder https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUtv4slpm-U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUtv4slpm-U
- lilactown 9y ago
  I know at least one professional athlete that had to change from vegan to eating meat, due to not being able to compete physically with his peers.
2skep 9y ago
This thread is just endless collection of n=1 observations. This is how it goes = - I eat meat and I am healthy - No, I am vegetarian and I can run faster than you - No, I eat meat but I also eat peas and I can read better than you. You know what? Maybe all of you are right and maybe all of us don't need exactly the same food that is good your somebody else. Geez!! :-)

42 points by sr2 9y ago

I stopped reading when the author admitted that every point he had made in the first two paragraphs about diet causing depression were based on observational studies for which it is not strictly possible to draw such conclusions.

problems 9y ago
I too almost quit and posted a comment complaining after the first few paragraphs, but fortunately I read a bit further first. They go into "Teasing out the cause from the correlation" which actually talks about the design of a study to do so. Seems like a fairly good approach, wish they would have made it clear that this was the direction from earlier, but eh, probably my fault for being lazy and having no attention span anymore.
maneesh 9y ago
you exited right before he started talking about causual (non-correlative/observational) studies
lolc 9y ago
Quote from the article, a bit further down: "Our recent trial was the first intervention study to examine the common question of whether diet will improve depression."

amelius 9y ago

> your brain really does want you to eat more veggies Meat/fish is also important for the brain as it is a good source of vitamin B12. Even a slight deficiency of this vitamin can cause mental problems. This is something to be aware of when following a vegetarian diet.

wyldfire 9y ago
What are non meat dietary sources of B12? Or does it mean you'd need to consider supplements?
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- JoeAltmaier 9y ago
  This list seems to think its present in some dishes? http://www.dietandfitnesstoday.com/vegetables-high-in-vitamin-b12.php http://www.dietandfitnesstoday.com/vegetables-high-in-vitami...
- adrianN 9y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_B12#Sources https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_B12#Sources Supplements mainly.
- alex_duf 9y ago
  An interesting anecdote about B12 is that it's actually coming from bacteria, usually found in the ground. Animals are rich in B12 because they eat grass. Technically if you don't wash your vegetables you would get more B12, but you would also increase your chances of catching a bad bug. B12 isn't synthesised by any animals or plant, we just get it by proxy. (and by the way, industrially raised cattle who don't see the light of day are supplemented in B12 just so you don't have to) So to come back to your original question, I have my B12 mainly from: - Marmite (if you fancy that, but I would understand if you disliked it very much) - Some supplements flakes to put on my salads (byproduct of beer I believe, something like Engevita). It doesn't look like it but I actually enjoy it on my greens (lettuce, cucumber, or any salad) - The very occasional meat/fish. I'm neither vegan nor vegetarian, but I changed my diet to consider these as a treat.
  - goraw 9y ago
    You are correct: Animals and plants don't synthesize B12, bacteria do. However, these bacteria are also found in the small intestine of humans. So you might want to add them to your list of contributors. Check out this study [1]. This fact is usually not mentioned in the livestock industry fear-mongering propaganda ("You will eventually die without meat"). [1] http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v283/n5749/abs/283781a0.html http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v283/n5749/abs/283781a0...

KitDuncan 9y ago

Not only is a plant based diet healthy, and every study that tells otherwise is obviously paid by the livestock industry; it's also the only environmentally sustainable diet. I really don't get how so many highly intelligent people acknowledge those facts and still put their tastebuds over everything else. It's not like vegan food can't be absolutely delicious either.

ihsw2 9y ago
How do you argue that an environmentally sustainable diet is important to someone that has no concern for environmental sustainability, nor any interest in such things? Also, why do you assume highly intelligent people are predisposed to care about environmental sustainability?
- KitDuncan 9y ago
  Well obviously if health, ethics and environmental sustainability aren't a concern to you, then I don't expect you to go on a plant based diet. Many otherwise intelligent people do care about the environment though (driving electric cars) and still eat meat and animal products.
  - ihsw2 9y ago
    One can go on a plant-based diet for health benefits alone with complete disregard for environmental sustainability, and by the same token one can live an ethical life without regard for environmental sustainability. I'm still confused -- why do you assume highly intelligent people are predisposed to caring about environmental sustainability?
- JoeAltmaier 9y ago
  Because sustaining the environment is important to all our survival?
  - nxc18 9y ago
    Evidence? I'm all for environmental sustainability, but there are very few people who would have their survival threatened by any environmental changes in their lifetime. For those few on an island somewhere who very well could be threatened in their lifetime, there is no intervention that will prevent that change - the damage is already done. Looking further than that, technology has historically found solutions and we seem to get better at technology every day. Beyond that, climate change is just 'change' - the new may be just as livable as the old, albeit with significant differences in e.g. population distribution. If you think about what sustainability means, being unsustainable isn't all that bad; it just means you'll have to change at some point, either when you have a choice or when you don't. In the absolutely terminal case, where we don't make any effort to be sustainable, we're looking at lifestyle changes and maybe a population contraction - not the survival of the species. Sustainability is nice and good - who likes change, really? - but there is no case to be made for it being an issue of survival.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

cryodesign 9y ago

The following story is for anyone who thinks you can't get strong or be a body builder on a plant-based only diet: Jim Morris - 78 year old vegan body builder https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUtv4slpm-U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUtv4slpm-U

lilactown 9y ago
I know at least one professional athlete that had to change from vegan to eating meat, due to not being able to compete physically with his peers.

2skep 9y ago

This thread is just endless collection of n=1 observations. This is how it goes = - I eat meat and I am healthy - No, I am vegetarian and I can run faster than you - No, I eat meat but I also eat peas and I can read better than you. You know what? Maybe all of you are right and maybe all of us don't need exactly the same food that is good your somebody else. Geez!! :-)