7 ms·

Chinese students are getting top tier educations in the United States only to be forced to return home because of absurd F visa restrictions which effectively p

Chinese students are getting top tier educations in the United States only to be forced to return home because of absurd F visa restrictions which effectively prohibit them from gainful employment in the United States after completing their studies. It's pitiful and sad.

GuiA 9y ago
Don't know why you're being downvoted, because that exact thing has happened to many of my former lab mates. Giving a green card to anyone with a graduate degree in STEM fields would be the most sensible thing to do if the US wanted to avoid the reverse brain drain of foreign graduates educated mostly on the US taxpayer's money. The vast majority of those grads would be very happy to stay in the US.
- dis-sys 9y ago
  That is not true and the reason is obvious - bamboo ceiling in American companies. Think about it - Chinese grads have far higher chance to be promoted to a senior position in companies like BAT and all of them pay you well.
  - ajmurmann 9y ago
    Is the bamboo ceiling string enough and well known enough that it would drive a majority of Chinese graduates from US schools out of the country even if they received a green card? I don't find this assumption oblivious at all. It's easy to underestimate discrimination if you aren't the ones being discriminated. Do you happen to have any data on the actual discrimination and more importantly for this discussion the perceived one?
  - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
    The head of Microsoft today is Indian, Qi Lu was, until recently, head of apps, Harry Shrum runs tech. Does the bamboo ceiling really exist in tech? Now, definitely for laowai working in China, there is a bamboo ceiling, almost all the senior leaders are going to be Chinese or Taiwanese :)
    - dosgonlogs 9y ago
      Yup! Which is why brain drain to China will slow down imo. Unless they get a steady flow people wanting to get a dead end career there.
    - im3w1l 9y ago
      laowai = foreigner
- Larrikin 9y ago
  Where does this claim about being educated mostly on the US taxpayer's money come from? A lot of my classmates in graduate school have said they are in graduate school since it will give them more chances at the lottery allowing them to work in the US. Others have said they just wanted the best education they could get. But all of them are always complaining about how theres basically zero financial assistance for them and they are lucky that their parents can pay for them, since even getting a part time job or internship is a massive hassle that most companies won't even bother with due to their student visa situation.
  - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
    For PhD students in computer science, they will almost all get funding from the federal government (indirectly through grants). Masters students, maybe not. You are incorrect about the internships, which don't require visas for F1 holders as they get a year of OPT. Now, they might save up their one year of OPT for post graduation, which is useful for the wait in getting an H1, though I guess there are also useful extensions that can even get around that (IANAL, so I don't know what the exact story is ATM).
    - tnecniv 9y ago
      For MS and BS students, IIRC, a lot of countries will subsidize the education of their citizens in the US to some degree.
- walshemj 9y ago
  Foreign students are seen as a revenue steam for universities
pkaye 9y ago
Can you talk more about those restrictions? I though they could get practical training after completing their degree?
- ajmurmann 9y ago
  Yes as STEM graduate you get a few years for practical training in the US. After that you gotta leave though.
  - pkaye 9y ago
    That is where the H1B picks up though.
    - klipt 9y ago
      Only if you win the H1-B lottery. Yes, USCIS literally picks H1-B recipients using a random lottery.
      - pkaye 9y ago
        I think the lottery system might change soon enough. I also think there are problems with tying an education degree with employment. There are many universities that charge a huge amount for foreign students for an education here knowing there is a chance of employment. People paying literally $200k so they can get the practical training and a chance at a H1B sponsorship. There was a local for-profit university that did this while not properly teaching their students. Once this was found out the students lost their money and opportunity at a job.
        jjawssd 9y ago
        > might change soon enough Don't hold your breath.
panzer_wyrm 9y ago
Well I personally think that Shanghai is the greatest city in the world right now, so they may not be that reluctant to come back home.
- jjawssd 9y ago
  How is the air pollution over there?
  - panzer_wyrm 9y ago
    Nonexistent
    - jjawssd 9y ago
      You must be joking if not outright lying. US EPA maximum annual exposure limit is 12 micrograms PM2.5 per cubic meter whereas Shanghai is above 40.

GuiA 9y ago

Don't know why you're being downvoted, because that exact thing has happened to many of my former lab mates. Giving a green card to anyone with a graduate degree in STEM fields would be the most sensible thing to do if the US wanted to avoid the reverse brain drain of foreign graduates educated mostly on the US taxpayer's money. The vast majority of those grads would be very happy to stay in the US.

dis-sys 9y ago
That is not true and the reason is obvious - bamboo ceiling in American companies. Think about it - Chinese grads have far higher chance to be promoted to a senior position in companies like BAT and all of them pay you well.
- ajmurmann 9y ago
  Is the bamboo ceiling string enough and well known enough that it would drive a majority of Chinese graduates from US schools out of the country even if they received a green card? I don't find this assumption oblivious at all. It's easy to underestimate discrimination if you aren't the ones being discriminated. Do you happen to have any data on the actual discrimination and more importantly for this discussion the perceived one?
- seanmcdirmid 9y ago
  The head of Microsoft today is Indian, Qi Lu was, until recently, head of apps, Harry Shrum runs tech. Does the bamboo ceiling really exist in tech? Now, definitely for laowai working in China, there is a bamboo ceiling, almost all the senior leaders are going to be Chinese or Taiwanese :)
  - dosgonlogs 9y ago
    Yup! Which is why brain drain to China will slow down imo. Unless they get a steady flow people wanting to get a dead end career there.
  - im3w1l 9y ago
    laowai = foreigner
Larrikin 9y ago
Where does this claim about being educated mostly on the US taxpayer's money come from? A lot of my classmates in graduate school have said they are in graduate school since it will give them more chances at the lottery allowing them to work in the US. Others have said they just wanted the best education they could get. But all of them are always complaining about how theres basically zero financial assistance for them and they are lucky that their parents can pay for them, since even getting a part time job or internship is a massive hassle that most companies won't even bother with due to their student visa situation.
- seanmcdirmid 9y ago
  For PhD students in computer science, they will almost all get funding from the federal government (indirectly through grants). Masters students, maybe not. You are incorrect about the internships, which don't require visas for F1 holders as they get a year of OPT. Now, they might save up their one year of OPT for post graduation, which is useful for the wait in getting an H1, though I guess there are also useful extensions that can even get around that (IANAL, so I don't know what the exact story is ATM).
  - tnecniv 9y ago
    For MS and BS students, IIRC, a lot of countries will subsidize the education of their citizens in the US to some degree.
walshemj 9y ago
Foreign students are seen as a revenue steam for universities

pkaye 9y ago

Can you talk more about those restrictions? I though they could get practical training after completing their degree?

ajmurmann 9y ago
Yes as STEM graduate you get a few years for practical training in the US. After that you gotta leave though.
- pkaye 9y ago
  That is where the H1B picks up though.
  - klipt 9y ago
    Only if you win the H1-B lottery. Yes, USCIS literally picks H1-B recipients using a random lottery.
    - pkaye 9y ago
      I think the lottery system might change soon enough. I also think there are problems with tying an education degree with employment. There are many universities that charge a huge amount for foreign students for an education here knowing there is a chance of employment. People paying literally $200k so they can get the practical training and a chance at a H1B sponsorship. There was a local for-profit university that did this while not properly teaching their students. Once this was found out the students lost their money and opportunity at a job.
      - jjawssd 9y ago
        > might change soon enough Don't hold your breath.

panzer_wyrm 9y ago

Well I personally think that Shanghai is the greatest city in the world right now, so they may not be that reluctant to come back home.

jjawssd 9y ago
How is the air pollution over there?
- panzer_wyrm 9y ago
  Nonexistent
  - jjawssd 9y ago
    You must be joking if not outright lying. US EPA maximum annual exposure limit is 12 micrograms PM2.5 per cubic meter whereas Shanghai is above 40.