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You probably shouldn't be searching for that. To be free of all reminders that crimes have been committed, think of all the people that would have to die. Perha

You probably shouldn't be searching for that. To be free of all reminders that crimes have been committed, think of all the people that would have to die. Perhaps crimes should be punished more effectively instead of trying to get meta-crime to do the work. For instance, money laundering is mostly used to just add years to peoples normal crime sentences. You could just increase the normal crime sentence. Imagine how violent the USA would be right now if violent video games caused violence. The violent gaming industry has more revenue than the movie industry. Metacrime enforcement takes money from real crime enforcement.

jasode 9y ago
>You probably shouldn't be searching for that. That response doesn't engage with the difficult scenario I laid out. To restate: If you want a law-abiding-wouldn't-hurt-a-fly citizen to participate in the blockchain, the citizen must copy the illegal child pornography to his harddrive to satisfy the functionality of the blockchain. The citizen is not "searching for it"; instead, the citizen must have it.
- benchaney 9y ago
  Right, but just because its there doesn't mean its really there. If someone embeds a video in the blockchain, most people wouldn't see it unless they specifically went looking for what block number it is in, and then got a program to copy data out of the blockchain and into a video file, and then ran it with a video player. That fits my definition of searching for it.
  - TheDong 9y ago
    Child porn possession, unlike most crimes, is intentless. Even if someone has no knowledge of, or intent related to, the possession of child porn, it's still illegal. A person who downloads that video unknowingly via the blockchain is probably morally in the clear, however they're very much not in the clear with the law.
    - benchaney 9y ago
      That is a completely valid pragmatic concern, but it is a problem with the law. Not a problem with the technology.
      - gknoy 9y ago
        Given that technology requires users, and users are bound by these "pesky" things called laws, I think that it is definitely a problem with the technology if the blockchain (or other system) can be so poisoned that all users of it would be rendered criminals.
- RichardHeart 9y ago
  I guess it's a great opportunity to roll back thought crime that you perform with your eyes. You're already in possession of things illegal in China, North Korea, etc. Less meta-crime enforcement, more real crime enforcement.
- mirimir 9y ago
  Most people already have no clue what they have on their machines. And no clue how to find stuff. I mean, consider how images can be embedded in other images through steganography.
- Artlav 9y ago
  For some extra twists, contemplate one-time-pad encryption. You can claim that some random set of data on someone's machine is an encrypted child porno video, and provide a "key" that would decrypt it. Try explaining why that's not real to a clueless judge. Anyway, i hope the legal system would recognize the difference between having intent to store cp and not having such intent. Otherwise anyone can be made or proven to have stored it.
  - Dylan16807 9y ago
    > Try explaining why that's not real to a clueless judge. Judges aren't stupid. You can easily explain why the random data isn't something. You can't explain your way out of unencrypted data being objectively there. > Anyway, i hope the legal system would recognize the difference between having intent to store cp and not having such intent. If you know how blockchains work, then it is intentional. > Otherwise anyone can be made or proven to have stored it. Not for any real standard of proof.
openasocket 9y ago
I don't think you understand what money laundering is. It is lying to the government about the source of your income, to clean your money. It is a completely separate act than the original crime (bank robbery, drug dealing, etc.) that produced the money, and should be treated differently. Also, making money laundering illegal means we can punish the middlemen who enable those crimes by facilitating the money laundering. By providing an easy avenue for criminals to wash their money, they make it easier for people to profit from a criminal enterprise, even though they did not actively participate.

jasode 9y ago

>You probably shouldn't be searching for that. That response doesn't engage with the difficult scenario I laid out. To restate: If you want a law-abiding-wouldn't-hurt-a-fly citizen to participate in the blockchain, the citizen must copy the illegal child pornography to his harddrive to satisfy the functionality of the blockchain. The citizen is not "searching for it"; instead, the citizen must have it.

benchaney 9y ago
Right, but just because its there doesn't mean its really there. If someone embeds a video in the blockchain, most people wouldn't see it unless they specifically went looking for what block number it is in, and then got a program to copy data out of the blockchain and into a video file, and then ran it with a video player. That fits my definition of searching for it.
- TheDong 9y ago
  Child porn possession, unlike most crimes, is intentless. Even if someone has no knowledge of, or intent related to, the possession of child porn, it's still illegal. A person who downloads that video unknowingly via the blockchain is probably morally in the clear, however they're very much not in the clear with the law.
  - benchaney 9y ago
    That is a completely valid pragmatic concern, but it is a problem with the law. Not a problem with the technology.
    - gknoy 9y ago
      Given that technology requires users, and users are bound by these "pesky" things called laws, I think that it is definitely a problem with the technology if the blockchain (or other system) can be so poisoned that all users of it would be rendered criminals.
RichardHeart 9y ago
I guess it's a great opportunity to roll back thought crime that you perform with your eyes. You're already in possession of things illegal in China, North Korea, etc. Less meta-crime enforcement, more real crime enforcement.
mirimir 9y ago
Most people already have no clue what they have on their machines. And no clue how to find stuff. I mean, consider how images can be embedded in other images through steganography.
Artlav 9y ago
For some extra twists, contemplate one-time-pad encryption. You can claim that some random set of data on someone's machine is an encrypted child porno video, and provide a "key" that would decrypt it. Try explaining why that's not real to a clueless judge. Anyway, i hope the legal system would recognize the difference between having intent to store cp and not having such intent. Otherwise anyone can be made or proven to have stored it.
- Dylan16807 9y ago
  > Try explaining why that's not real to a clueless judge. Judges aren't stupid. You can easily explain why the random data isn't something. You can't explain your way out of unencrypted data being objectively there. > Anyway, i hope the legal system would recognize the difference between having intent to store cp and not having such intent. If you know how blockchains work, then it is intentional. > Otherwise anyone can be made or proven to have stored it. Not for any real standard of proof.

openasocket 9y ago

I don't think you understand what money laundering is. It is lying to the government about the source of your income, to clean your money. It is a completely separate act than the original crime (bank robbery, drug dealing, etc.) that produced the money, and should be treated differently. Also, making money laundering illegal means we can punish the middlemen who enable those crimes by facilitating the money laundering. By providing an easy avenue for criminals to wash their money, they make it easier for people to profit from a criminal enterprise, even though they did not actively participate.