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Evil and horror will always be just around the corner if you wish to see it. Trying to cripple technology to force forgetfulness upon people is pretty immoral.

Evil and horror will always be just around the corner if you wish to see it. Trying to cripple technology to force forgetfulness upon people is pretty immoral. I mean, if remembering things is crime, then thought crime is illegal, yes? How would Kim Jong-un regulate your blockchain thoughts. Free speech good. Censorship bad.

jasode 9y ago
>Evil and horror will always be just around the corner if you wish to see it. I think for the average person who doesn't use Tor, they will not stumble across child rape videos with a search for keywords "child rape videos" in Google or Bing. However, if it's embedded in a global blockchain where the end user must have a copy of those illegal bytes for the blockchain to be verified & trusted, does that mean every blockchain user is committing a crime by storing bytes of child pornography? If someone wanted to sabotage a blockchain, it's hard to think of a better way to deface it.
- RichardHeart 9y ago
  You probably shouldn't be searching for that. To be free of all reminders that crimes have been committed, think of all the people that would have to die. Perhaps crimes should be punished more effectively instead of trying to get meta-crime to do the work. For instance, money laundering is mostly used to just add years to peoples normal crime sentences. You could just increase the normal crime sentence. Imagine how violent the USA would be right now if violent video games caused violence. The violent gaming industry has more revenue than the movie industry. Metacrime enforcement takes money from real crime enforcement.
  - jasode 9y ago
    >You probably shouldn't be searching for that. That response doesn't engage with the difficult scenario I laid out. To restate: If you want a law-abiding-wouldn't-hurt-a-fly citizen to participate in the blockchain, the citizen must copy the illegal child pornography to his harddrive to satisfy the functionality of the blockchain. The citizen is not "searching for it"; instead, the citizen must have it.
    - benchaney 9y ago
      Right, but just because its there doesn't mean its really there. If someone embeds a video in the blockchain, most people wouldn't see it unless they specifically went looking for what block number it is in, and then got a program to copy data out of the blockchain and into a video file, and then ran it with a video player. That fits my definition of searching for it.
      - TheDong 9y ago
        Child porn possession, unlike most crimes, is intentless. Even if someone has no knowledge of, or intent related to, the possession of child porn, it's still illegal. A person who downloads that video unknowingly via the blockchain is probably morally in the clear, however they're very much not in the clear with the law.
        benchaney 9y ago
        That is a completely valid pragmatic concern, but it is a problem with the law. Not a problem with the technology.
        gknoy 9y ago
        Given that technology requires users, and users are bound by these "pesky" things called laws, I think that it is definitely a problem with the technology if the blockchain (or other system) can be so poisoned that all users of it would be rendered criminals.
    - RichardHeart 9y ago
      I guess it's a great opportunity to roll back thought crime that you perform with your eyes. You're already in possession of things illegal in China, North Korea, etc. Less meta-crime enforcement, more real crime enforcement.
    - mirimir 9y ago
      Most people already have no clue what they have on their machines. And no clue how to find stuff. I mean, consider how images can be embedded in other images through steganography.
  - openasocket 9y ago
    I don't think you understand what money laundering is. It is lying to the government about the source of your income, to clean your money. It is a completely separate act than the original crime (bank robbery, drug dealing, etc.) that produced the money, and should be treated differently. Also, making money laundering illegal means we can punish the middlemen who enable those crimes by facilitating the money laundering. By providing an easy avenue for criminals to wash their money, they make it easier for people to profit from a criminal enterprise, even though they did not actively participate.
- ue_ 9y ago
  The obvious solution here is not to have the bytes being illegal.
  - yjgyhj 9y ago
    So owning and sharing child porn should be OK in the eyes of the law? It's simply not an easy question to give an easy answer to.
    - snakeanus 9y ago
      I think it should be just as OK as owning and sharing videos of death, murders and of adult people being raped. There is no reason why CP should be better or worse in the eyes of law. (not justifying CP, just saying that it's just as bad as the above)
      - openasocket 9y ago
        The decision of New York v Ferber spells out why child porn is illegal better than I can (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_v._Ferber https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_v._Ferber)
        Dylan16807 9y ago
        That explains why the sale is illegal, which is much more straightforward than possession.

jasode 9y ago

>Evil and horror will always be just around the corner if you wish to see it. I think for the average person who doesn't use Tor, they will not stumble across child rape videos with a search for keywords "child rape videos" in Google or Bing. However, if it's embedded in a global blockchain where the end user must have a copy of those illegal bytes for the blockchain to be verified & trusted, does that mean every blockchain user is committing a crime by storing bytes of child pornography? If someone wanted to sabotage a blockchain, it's hard to think of a better way to deface it.

RichardHeart 9y ago
You probably shouldn't be searching for that. To be free of all reminders that crimes have been committed, think of all the people that would have to die. Perhaps crimes should be punished more effectively instead of trying to get meta-crime to do the work. For instance, money laundering is mostly used to just add years to peoples normal crime sentences. You could just increase the normal crime sentence. Imagine how violent the USA would be right now if violent video games caused violence. The violent gaming industry has more revenue than the movie industry. Metacrime enforcement takes money from real crime enforcement.
- jasode 9y ago
  >You probably shouldn't be searching for that. That response doesn't engage with the difficult scenario I laid out. To restate: If you want a law-abiding-wouldn't-hurt-a-fly citizen to participate in the blockchain, the citizen must copy the illegal child pornography to his harddrive to satisfy the functionality of the blockchain. The citizen is not "searching for it"; instead, the citizen must have it.
  - benchaney 9y ago
    Right, but just because its there doesn't mean its really there. If someone embeds a video in the blockchain, most people wouldn't see it unless they specifically went looking for what block number it is in, and then got a program to copy data out of the blockchain and into a video file, and then ran it with a video player. That fits my definition of searching for it.
    - TheDong 9y ago
      Child porn possession, unlike most crimes, is intentless. Even if someone has no knowledge of, or intent related to, the possession of child porn, it's still illegal. A person who downloads that video unknowingly via the blockchain is probably morally in the clear, however they're very much not in the clear with the law.
      - benchaney 9y ago
        That is a completely valid pragmatic concern, but it is a problem with the law. Not a problem with the technology.
        gknoy 9y ago
        Given that technology requires users, and users are bound by these "pesky" things called laws, I think that it is definitely a problem with the technology if the blockchain (or other system) can be so poisoned that all users of it would be rendered criminals.
  - RichardHeart 9y ago
    I guess it's a great opportunity to roll back thought crime that you perform with your eyes. You're already in possession of things illegal in China, North Korea, etc. Less meta-crime enforcement, more real crime enforcement.
  - mirimir 9y ago
    Most people already have no clue what they have on their machines. And no clue how to find stuff. I mean, consider how images can be embedded in other images through steganography.
- openasocket 9y ago
  I don't think you understand what money laundering is. It is lying to the government about the source of your income, to clean your money. It is a completely separate act than the original crime (bank robbery, drug dealing, etc.) that produced the money, and should be treated differently. Also, making money laundering illegal means we can punish the middlemen who enable those crimes by facilitating the money laundering. By providing an easy avenue for criminals to wash their money, they make it easier for people to profit from a criminal enterprise, even though they did not actively participate.
ue_ 9y ago
The obvious solution here is not to have the bytes being illegal.
- yjgyhj 9y ago
  So owning and sharing child porn should be OK in the eyes of the law? It's simply not an easy question to give an easy answer to.
  - snakeanus 9y ago
    I think it should be just as OK as owning and sharing videos of death, murders and of adult people being raped. There is no reason why CP should be better or worse in the eyes of law. (not justifying CP, just saying that it's just as bad as the above)
    - openasocket 9y ago
      The decision of New York v Ferber spells out why child porn is illegal better than I can (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_v._Ferber https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_v._Ferber)
      - Dylan16807 9y ago
        That explains why the sale is illegal, which is much more straightforward than possession.