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To my knowledge, the scenario hasn't happened in real life yet but it's a thought experiment that tests (abuses) the permanence of an un-erasable consensus ledg

by jasode 9y ago

To my knowledge, the scenario hasn't happened in real life yet but it's a thought experiment that tests (abuses) the permanence of an un-erasable consensus ledger. I will try to use the most distasteful data I can think of to drive the point home... Imagine that a vindictive person embeds the bytes of a graphic explicit child rape video into the ledger. All subsequent blocks will depend on those "bad bytes" so they can't be erased. For the later blocks to be trusted, everyone must have a copy of those bytes. What is society's response? Live with those bad blocks to maintain the trust in the chain? Or does a majority agree to fork a new chain (ala Ethereum/DAO) that removes the bad bytes? Even if a fork happens, the trolling/defacing of bad bytes into the worldwide blockchain is a tempting method to force everyone to have a copy of your "graffiti". The new fork would simply be a new target to deface. A smaller example of "bad bytes" is doxing someone's Social Security # or home address. (For all we know, some of the transaction amounts in some Bitcoin blocks may represent "bad bytes" but nobody has made the knowledge public yet to ruin a person's life. E.g. Bitcoin block #403891 has Jennifer Lawrence's SSN#.) In essence, the permanence of the block chain can be used as a weapon against it. It doesn't mean the blockchain concept is unusable but there doesn't seem to be an easy computer-science answer for it.

ChrisClark 9y ago
I've definitely read about someone putting some extremely illegal data in the Bitcoin blockchain. I'd rather not go searching for it to confirm though.
- jasode 9y ago
  Yes, if it's illegal data like the DVD encryption key[1] embedded into Bitcoin, that's the kind of "bad bytes" that doesn't pressure the community to suppress it. If the past behavior in the Digg fiasco is an indication, illegal data like that permanently etched into a blockchain would be celebrated. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AACS_encryption_key_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AACS_encryption_key_controvers...
  - jwilk 9y ago
    What Digg fiasco?
    - carbocation 9y ago
      The comment you are replying to contains a link that explains, in great detail, the Digg fiasco.
RichardHeart 9y ago
Evil and horror will always be just around the corner if you wish to see it. Trying to cripple technology to force forgetfulness upon people is pretty immoral. I mean, if remembering things is crime, then thought crime is illegal, yes? How would Kim Jong-un regulate your blockchain thoughts. Free speech good. Censorship bad.
- jasode 9y ago
  >Evil and horror will always be just around the corner if you wish to see it. I think for the average person who doesn't use Tor, they will not stumble across child rape videos with a search for keywords "child rape videos" in Google or Bing. However, if it's embedded in a global blockchain where the end user must have a copy of those illegal bytes for the blockchain to be verified & trusted, does that mean every blockchain user is committing a crime by storing bytes of child pornography? If someone wanted to sabotage a blockchain, it's hard to think of a better way to deface it.
  - RichardHeart 9y ago
    You probably shouldn't be searching for that. To be free of all reminders that crimes have been committed, think of all the people that would have to die. Perhaps crimes should be punished more effectively instead of trying to get meta-crime to do the work. For instance, money laundering is mostly used to just add years to peoples normal crime sentences. You could just increase the normal crime sentence. Imagine how violent the USA would be right now if violent video games caused violence. The violent gaming industry has more revenue than the movie industry. Metacrime enforcement takes money from real crime enforcement.
    - jasode 9y ago
      >You probably shouldn't be searching for that. That response doesn't engage with the difficult scenario I laid out. To restate: If you want a law-abiding-wouldn't-hurt-a-fly citizen to participate in the blockchain, the citizen must copy the illegal child pornography to his harddrive to satisfy the functionality of the blockchain. The citizen is not "searching for it"; instead, the citizen must have it.
Artlav 9y ago
I don't see how it is different from it being posted anywhere else on the internet. I.e. yesterday i embedded an innocuous message into Bitcoin's blockchain. Can you see it? I doubt it, unless you are willing to go through and decode some hundreds of thousands of recent transactions. For anyone to notice, i'll have to post a link - https://bitaps.com/97804baa2ce19454c61eeda3de1bb99fc6b005f8aa397d0b84c500f97b4ab2f2 https://bitaps.com/97804baa2ce19454c61eeda3de1bb99fc6b005f8a... Conceptually, it's the same as posting a link like dg251kctuhnoj3f4.onion/timmy_suffers_part_1.avi - unless you are actively looking for the bad bytes or have a link sent to you, you are unlikely to find them. Thus, no need for forks or any extra drastic actions.

by jasode 9y ago

ChrisClark 9y ago

I've definitely read about someone putting some extremely illegal data in the Bitcoin blockchain. I'd rather not go searching for it to confirm though.

jasode 9y ago
Yes, if it's illegal data like the DVD encryption key[1] embedded into Bitcoin, that's the kind of "bad bytes" that doesn't pressure the community to suppress it. If the past behavior in the Digg fiasco is an indication, illegal data like that permanently etched into a blockchain would be celebrated. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AACS_encryption_key_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AACS_encryption_key_controvers...
- jwilk 9y ago
  What Digg fiasco?
  - carbocation 9y ago
    The comment you are replying to contains a link that explains, in great detail, the Digg fiasco.

RichardHeart 9y ago

Evil and horror will always be just around the corner if you wish to see it. Trying to cripple technology to force forgetfulness upon people is pretty immoral. I mean, if remembering things is crime, then thought crime is illegal, yes? How would Kim Jong-un regulate your blockchain thoughts. Free speech good. Censorship bad.

jasode 9y ago
>Evil and horror will always be just around the corner if you wish to see it. I think for the average person who doesn't use Tor, they will not stumble across child rape videos with a search for keywords "child rape videos" in Google or Bing. However, if it's embedded in a global blockchain where the end user must have a copy of those illegal bytes for the blockchain to be verified & trusted, does that mean every blockchain user is committing a crime by storing bytes of child pornography? If someone wanted to sabotage a blockchain, it's hard to think of a better way to deface it.
- RichardHeart 9y ago
  You probably shouldn't be searching for that. To be free of all reminders that crimes have been committed, think of all the people that would have to die. Perhaps crimes should be punished more effectively instead of trying to get meta-crime to do the work. For instance, money laundering is mostly used to just add years to peoples normal crime sentences. You could just increase the normal crime sentence. Imagine how violent the USA would be right now if violent video games caused violence. The violent gaming industry has more revenue than the movie industry. Metacrime enforcement takes money from real crime enforcement.
  - jasode 9y ago
    >You probably shouldn't be searching for that. That response doesn't engage with the difficult scenario I laid out. To restate: If you want a law-abiding-wouldn't-hurt-a-fly citizen to participate in the blockchain, the citizen must copy the illegal child pornography to his harddrive to satisfy the functionality of the blockchain. The citizen is not "searching for it"; instead, the citizen must have it.

Artlav 9y ago

I don't see how it is different from it being posted anywhere else on the internet. I.e. yesterday i embedded an innocuous message into Bitcoin's blockchain. Can you see it? I doubt it, unless you are willing to go through and decode some hundreds of thousands of recent transactions. For anyone to notice, i'll have to post a link - https://bitaps.com/97804baa2ce19454c61eeda3de1bb99fc6b005f8aa397d0b84c500f97b4ab2f2 https://bitaps.com/97804baa2ce19454c61eeda3de1bb99fc6b005f8a... Conceptually, it's the same as posting a link like dg251kctuhnoj3f4.onion/timmy_suffers_part_1.avi - unless you are actively looking for the bad bytes or have a link sent to you, you are unlikely to find them. Thus, no need for forks or any extra drastic actions.