4 ms·

We should all be ashamed. How can there not be enough money to send children to school? What did we spend it on. Maybe we took that money and bought an estate

by habosa 9y ago

We should all be ashamed. How can there not be enough money to send children to school? What did we spend it on. Maybe we took that money and bought an estate tax break or a more powerful missile. Even if these schools could stay open for 5 days, I doubt any state willing to do something so reckless with education can provide an education worth getting. A bunch of adults did this by treating politics like a game, but children will be the ones who suffer.

rayiner 9y ago
This article is talking about the state budget. States don't buy missles, that's federal. And there is enough money to send kids to school. Oklahoma's per student spending is at the OECD average. If it were a country, it'd be between Spain and Italy in education spending per student.
- adventured 9y ago
  The missile is almost a good point, the OECD average is not. Oklahoma's median income is well above the OECD average. It's nearly 40% higher than Italy. Teacher salaries in Oklahoma are accordingly higher. They're going to have to spend quite a bit more than Italy and Spain. Regarding missiles. If we spent... $200 billion less on defense, which we easily could afford to do, the Federal Government could kick that money down to the states for other purposes (infrastructure, education, healthcare). And or the Federal Govt could lower taxes and the states could raise their taxes.
  - rayiner 9y ago
    The school spending numbers are PPP adjusted. So we're asking Oklahoma teachers to have the same standard of living as Italy teachers. (Actually, Oklahoma teachers do better, because the PPP adjustment is to the US average, and Oklahoma cost of living is a lot lower than the US average.)
    - yequalsx 9y ago
      You've gone from talking about per pupil spending to teacher salaries. There's a gap there. I don't know this to be true but I suspect that administrative costs, need to build newer schools with fancy athletic facilities skews numbers a bit so that direct comparisons between Italy and Oklahoma are not apt. There is also the fact that Italy has been under austerity measures for some time. Lastly, I don't think the Italy numbers take into account healt care costs of teachers. America's stupid health care system and its relegation to employers to include health care into salaries is going to really skew numbers.
    - MarkMc 9y ago
      > So we're asking Oklahoma teachers to have the same standard of living as Italy teachers. There's the problem. Why would an Oklahoma teacher accept the same standard of living as an Italian teacher when there are plenty of other Oklahoma jobs available? Adjusting for PPP parity the gross median household income in Italy is about 46% of US median income [1]. Oklahoma median household income is about 85% of US median income [2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_income https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_income [2] http://newsok.com/article/3711357 http://newsok.com/article/3711357
      - rayiner 9y ago
        The minimum Oklahoma teachers starting salary is $31,600: http://sde.ok.gov/sde/sites/ok.gov.sde/files/documents/files/16-17%20State%20Minimum%20Salary%20Schedule.pdf http://sde.ok.gov/sde/sites/ok.gov.sde/files/documents/files.... Adjusted for Oklahoma cost of living, that's about $37,000, or comparable to the median starting salary nationwide for liberal arts majors generally: http://www.bestplaces.net/cost_of_living/state/oklahoma http://www.bestplaces.net/cost_of_living/state/oklahoma.
        MarkMc 9y ago
        OK, but that doesn't seem to refute the comment made earlier: "Teacher salaries in Oklahoma are accordingly higher. They're going to have to spend quite a bit more than Italy and Spain." Even when you account for the cheaper cost of living in Italy, you need to pay people more money in Oklahoma. This is as true in education as in any other industry.
- CalChris 9y ago
  Oklahoma has the 4th lowest state per pupil spending. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/local/wp/2015/06/02/the-states-that-spend-the-most-and-the-least-on-education-in-one-map/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/local/wp/2015/06/02/the-...
  - matt_wulfeck 9y ago
    Utah, Arizona, and Idaho all spend less, yet they manage to stay open 5 days a week. This issue is political in nature and content.
    - CalChris 9y ago
      It is also political in intent and result.
wcummings 9y ago
It's a red state, go figure. Austerity politics at its finest.
- mirimir 9y ago
  But what is the ultimate goal? I can't imagine that the people of Oklahoma don't believe that children should be educated. Is there the expectation that home schooling and private schools are better options? The article doesn't mention either. But an article in The Oklahoman noted that "Homeschooling is popular option in Oklahoma".[0] Also:[1] > Although Oklahoma has no laws governing homeschooling, it is the only state that guarantees the right to home school as part of its constitution. But still, I wonder if homeschooling is actually picking up the slack from underfunded public schools. 0) http://newsok.com/article/4568616 http://newsok.com/article/4568616 1) http://www.homeschoolfacts.com/state-laws/oklahoma-homeschool-state-laws.html http://www.homeschoolfacts.com/state-laws/oklahoma-homeschoo...
  - wcummings 9y ago
    Every single person I know who was homeschooled had religious parents seems damaged by the experience. I understand that children aren't property of the state, but homeschooling results in under-socialization and bad outcomes IME.
  - drivingmenuts 9y ago
    I think the ultimate goal in Oklahoma is for conservatives to stop supporting things they don't feel like paying for (things they view as being liberal-inspired, like Art or Languages).
    - mirimir 9y ago
      I wonder how much of it is boomer retirees who'd rather spend their money in other ways.
endymi0n 9y ago
Well, you can be divided at the high level of individualism in the US - but even if you're not believing that everybody deserves a minimum standard of living, the belief that everybody should have a decent chance at it if you just work hard enough runs deep within the country's DNA - and that very belief gets hollowed out and violated every day. For a small refresher: The American dream phrase of American noun: American dream 1. the ideal by which equality of opportunity is available to any American, allowing the highest aspirations and goals to be achieved.
goalieca 9y ago
This is what happens when people dank meme about taxes IRL.
grecy 9y ago
> * What did we spend it on* It was spent to make the share prices of private companies go up.

by habosa 9y ago

rayiner 9y ago

This article is talking about the state budget. States don't buy missles, that's federal. And there is enough money to send kids to school. Oklahoma's per student spending is at the OECD average. If it were a country, it'd be between Spain and Italy in education spending per student.

adventured 9y ago
The missile is almost a good point, the OECD average is not. Oklahoma's median income is well above the OECD average. It's nearly 40% higher than Italy. Teacher salaries in Oklahoma are accordingly higher. They're going to have to spend quite a bit more than Italy and Spain. Regarding missiles. If we spent... $200 billion less on defense, which we easily could afford to do, the Federal Government could kick that money down to the states for other purposes (infrastructure, education, healthcare). And or the Federal Govt could lower taxes and the states could raise their taxes.
- rayiner 9y ago
  The school spending numbers are PPP adjusted. So we're asking Oklahoma teachers to have the same standard of living as Italy teachers. (Actually, Oklahoma teachers do better, because the PPP adjustment is to the US average, and Oklahoma cost of living is a lot lower than the US average.)
  - yequalsx 9y ago
    You've gone from talking about per pupil spending to teacher salaries. There's a gap there. I don't know this to be true but I suspect that administrative costs, need to build newer schools with fancy athletic facilities skews numbers a bit so that direct comparisons between Italy and Oklahoma are not apt. There is also the fact that Italy has been under austerity measures for some time. Lastly, I don't think the Italy numbers take into account healt care costs of teachers. America's stupid health care system and its relegation to employers to include health care into salaries is going to really skew numbers.
  - MarkMc 9y ago
    > So we're asking Oklahoma teachers to have the same standard of living as Italy teachers. There's the problem. Why would an Oklahoma teacher accept the same standard of living as an Italian teacher when there are plenty of other Oklahoma jobs available? Adjusting for PPP parity the gross median household income in Italy is about 46% of US median income [1]. Oklahoma median household income is about 85% of US median income [2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_income https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_income [2] http://newsok.com/article/3711357 http://newsok.com/article/3711357
    - rayiner 9y ago
      The minimum Oklahoma teachers starting salary is $31,600: http://sde.ok.gov/sde/sites/ok.gov.sde/files/documents/files/16-17%20State%20Minimum%20Salary%20Schedule.pdf http://sde.ok.gov/sde/sites/ok.gov.sde/files/documents/files.... Adjusted for Oklahoma cost of living, that's about $37,000, or comparable to the median starting salary nationwide for liberal arts majors generally: http://www.bestplaces.net/cost_of_living/state/oklahoma http://www.bestplaces.net/cost_of_living/state/oklahoma.
      - MarkMc 9y ago
        OK, but that doesn't seem to refute the comment made earlier: "Teacher salaries in Oklahoma are accordingly higher. They're going to have to spend quite a bit more than Italy and Spain." Even when you account for the cheaper cost of living in Italy, you need to pay people more money in Oklahoma. This is as true in education as in any other industry.
CalChris 9y ago
Oklahoma has the 4th lowest state per pupil spending. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/local/wp/2015/06/02/the-states-that-spend-the-most-and-the-least-on-education-in-one-map/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/local/wp/2015/06/02/the-...
- matt_wulfeck 9y ago
  Utah, Arizona, and Idaho all spend less, yet they manage to stay open 5 days a week. This issue is political in nature and content.
  - CalChris 9y ago
    It is also political in intent and result.

wcummings 9y ago

It's a red state, go figure. Austerity politics at its finest.

mirimir 9y ago
But what is the ultimate goal? I can't imagine that the people of Oklahoma don't believe that children should be educated. Is there the expectation that home schooling and private schools are better options? The article doesn't mention either. But an article in The Oklahoman noted that "Homeschooling is popular option in Oklahoma".[0] Also:[1] > Although Oklahoma has no laws governing homeschooling, it is the only state that guarantees the right to home school as part of its constitution. But still, I wonder if homeschooling is actually picking up the slack from underfunded public schools. 0) http://newsok.com/article/4568616 http://newsok.com/article/4568616 1) http://www.homeschoolfacts.com/state-laws/oklahoma-homeschool-state-laws.html http://www.homeschoolfacts.com/state-laws/oklahoma-homeschoo...
- wcummings 9y ago
  Every single person I know who was homeschooled had religious parents seems damaged by the experience. I understand that children aren't property of the state, but homeschooling results in under-socialization and bad outcomes IME.
- drivingmenuts 9y ago
  I think the ultimate goal in Oklahoma is for conservatives to stop supporting things they don't feel like paying for (things they view as being liberal-inspired, like Art or Languages).
  - mirimir 9y ago
    I wonder how much of it is boomer retirees who'd rather spend their money in other ways.

endymi0n 9y ago

Well, you can be divided at the high level of individualism in the US - but even if you're not believing that everybody deserves a minimum standard of living, the belief that everybody should have a decent chance at it if you just work hard enough runs deep within the country's DNA - and that very belief gets hollowed out and violated every day. For a small refresher: The American dream phrase of American noun: American dream 1. the ideal by which equality of opportunity is available to any American, allowing the highest aspirations and goals to be achieved.

goalieca 9y ago

This is what happens when people dank meme about taxes IRL.

grecy 9y ago

> * What did we spend it on* It was spent to make the share prices of private companies go up.