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On the other hand, we hear that the economy is doing well, unemployment is 4.7 % nationwide and 5.2 % in Oklahoma, we hear talk of full employment, yet the sta

On the other hand, we hear that the economy is doing well, unemployment is 4.7 % nationwide and 5.2 % in Oklahoma, we hear talk of full employment, yet the state can't pay its teachers, and parents can't pay for food. What gives?

blatherard 9y ago
These are not mutually exclusive. From the article, third paragraph: "But funding for classrooms has been shrinking for years in this deep-red state as lawmakers have cut taxes, slicing away hundreds of millions of dollars in annual revenue in what some Oklahomans consider a cautionary tale about the real-life consequences of the small-government approach favored by Republican majorities in Washington and statehouses nationwide."
- narrowrail 9y ago
  I hate this conflation of "small-government" and small federal government. It's just too difficult to manage a country this large and populous from D.C. We all would have better control over our own lives if we did more at the state level, and the smart people will move to the better run states.
prodmerc 9y ago
It gives that children have nothing to do with the current economy. Education effects on the economy are only seen every 20-30 years? When they become adults. Right now, it doesn't look good.
adventured 9y ago
It's a good question, given Oklahoma has a median income equal to Sweden. Their top tax rate on income is 5.25%. And given their energy boom, there are only two possibilities: they're not taxing enough (they could clearly boost the top income tax brackets slightly), or they're badly mismanaging the spending. Their sales tax is 4.5%, while I regard that as regressive, they could probably afford 6% without any problems given their state income level.
- HarryHirsch 9y ago
  That's the problem with mining, it does not rely on skilled labour and leaves a few people very rich and the rest very poor. How did Canada escape that trap, even though logging and petroleum make up a great part of the Canadian economy society doesn't have a large underclass.
  - adventured 9y ago
    Did you miss the part where I noted that the median income in Oklahoma is among the highest on earth (not the average, the median)? It's equal to: Sweden, Belgium, Denmark; higher than Finland, the Netherlands, Japan. Their cost of living is far lower than it is in eg Sweden or the Netherlands as well. The people in the middle in Oklahoma, have high incomes compared to other developed nations.
    - HarryHirsch 9y ago
      The people in the middle in Oklahoma, have high incomes compared to other developed nations. But they get mulcted out of it because of their godawful public services. From a colleague who works in that state I hear that everyone who can half afford it sends their children to private school because public schools are simply too bad. Then they vote to fund schools even less. Small-government in action.
      - BoiledCabbage 9y ago
        Yes this is political. It's mind-boggling to me how much of modern republican politics is "I've got mine. Fuck if I'll pay for yours." Directly paired with "No-one cares about us we been forgotten about and left behind. Someone look out for us." There is an entire American party based on looking out for the overlooked. Maybe vote for them??
Spooky23 9y ago
They are electing insane republicans/conservatives who actually believe the crazy nonsense peddled on talk radio. It's really sad. My uncle was a big republican in a more moderate state, county committee chairman, etc. He switched because the party degraded into something that doesn't stand for something that a civlized society should stand for. Ultimately, the fundamentalists and lunatics will implode the GOP. Demographics always win, and these flyover places are going to be ground into the dirt when the people they are hurting rise up.
- colmvp 9y ago
  > Demographics always win, and these flyover places are going to be ground into the dirt when the people they are hurting rise up. I used to believe this until I found people who actively vote against their own interests. For example, they know their rep will lie and try to pass a bill that will harm their access to healthcare. But they still vote for them because of party loyalty. Again... they know exactly what will happen when they vote for them and still choose to do because of loyalty. They know they need their affordable health insurance because of something they are going through yet they'd rather lose it and have their side win. There's no reasoning with some people. You can provide stats, facts, reasons, and yet they'll still do exactly the opposite of what would bring them long term benefit.
  - roel_v 9y ago
    So you're saying some people find their moral convictions more important than personal gain? What a weird concept!

blatherard 9y ago

These are not mutually exclusive. From the article, third paragraph: "But funding for classrooms has been shrinking for years in this deep-red state as lawmakers have cut taxes, slicing away hundreds of millions of dollars in annual revenue in what some Oklahomans consider a cautionary tale about the real-life consequences of the small-government approach favored by Republican majorities in Washington and statehouses nationwide."

narrowrail 9y ago
I hate this conflation of "small-government" and small federal government. It's just too difficult to manage a country this large and populous from D.C. We all would have better control over our own lives if we did more at the state level, and the smart people will move to the better run states.

prodmerc 9y ago

It gives that children have nothing to do with the current economy. Education effects on the economy are only seen every 20-30 years? When they become adults. Right now, it doesn't look good.

adventured 9y ago

It's a good question, given Oklahoma has a median income equal to Sweden. Their top tax rate on income is 5.25%. And given their energy boom, there are only two possibilities: they're not taxing enough (they could clearly boost the top income tax brackets slightly), or they're badly mismanaging the spending. Their sales tax is 4.5%, while I regard that as regressive, they could probably afford 6% without any problems given their state income level.

HarryHirsch 9y ago
That's the problem with mining, it does not rely on skilled labour and leaves a few people very rich and the rest very poor. How did Canada escape that trap, even though logging and petroleum make up a great part of the Canadian economy society doesn't have a large underclass.
- adventured 9y ago
  Did you miss the part where I noted that the median income in Oklahoma is among the highest on earth (not the average, the median)? It's equal to: Sweden, Belgium, Denmark; higher than Finland, the Netherlands, Japan. Their cost of living is far lower than it is in eg Sweden or the Netherlands as well. The people in the middle in Oklahoma, have high incomes compared to other developed nations.
  - HarryHirsch 9y ago
    The people in the middle in Oklahoma, have high incomes compared to other developed nations. But they get mulcted out of it because of their godawful public services. From a colleague who works in that state I hear that everyone who can half afford it sends their children to private school because public schools are simply too bad. Then they vote to fund schools even less. Small-government in action.
    - BoiledCabbage 9y ago
      Yes this is political. It's mind-boggling to me how much of modern republican politics is "I've got mine. Fuck if I'll pay for yours." Directly paired with "No-one cares about us we been forgotten about and left behind. Someone look out for us." There is an entire American party based on looking out for the overlooked. Maybe vote for them??

Spooky23 9y ago

They are electing insane republicans/conservatives who actually believe the crazy nonsense peddled on talk radio. It's really sad. My uncle was a big republican in a more moderate state, county committee chairman, etc. He switched because the party degraded into something that doesn't stand for something that a civlized society should stand for. Ultimately, the fundamentalists and lunatics will implode the GOP. Demographics always win, and these flyover places are going to be ground into the dirt when the people they are hurting rise up.

colmvp 9y ago
> Demographics always win, and these flyover places are going to be ground into the dirt when the people they are hurting rise up. I used to believe this until I found people who actively vote against their own interests. For example, they know their rep will lie and try to pass a bill that will harm their access to healthcare. But they still vote for them because of party loyalty. Again... they know exactly what will happen when they vote for them and still choose to do because of loyalty. They know they need their affordable health insurance because of something they are going through yet they'd rather lose it and have their side win. There's no reasoning with some people. You can provide stats, facts, reasons, and yet they'll still do exactly the opposite of what would bring them long term benefit.
- roel_v 9y ago
  So you're saying some people find their moral convictions more important than personal gain? What a weird concept!