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This is ridiculous fearmongering at a scale unseen before, given the enormous amount of corruption in Indian public distribution schemes, Aadhar has potential t

This is ridiculous fearmongering at a scale unseen before, given the enormous amount of corruption in Indian public distribution schemes, Aadhar has potential to be revolutionary in not only reducing corruption but also in providing poor people in India with assistance that they currently lack. Its easy to be a rich and employed in SF and pontificate about how other countries should run their government. Mozilla is equivalent of those who criticized "Green revolution" because if fed starving people without causing "social revolution" etc. Aadhar has potential to cause "Digital revolution" and decades from now Mozilla will be on the wrong side of history. Finally any Indian in USA simply has no right to criticize Aadhar since the US Visa process requires biometrics from all visitors.

adityab 9y ago
> Finally any Indian in USA simply has no right to criticize Aadhar since the US Visa process requires biometrics from all visitors. This is BS because getting a visa is a conscious choice, Aadhar is forced upon India's residents. You're attacking people for having an opinion that's contrary to yours. About your other points - no one is denying the benefits of having a strong unique ID system that lets people interface with government services; the problem is that Aadhar has no safeguards for privacy - which you would've focused on had you bothered to read the article.
- aub3bhat 9y ago
  You are the one full of bullshit because if you are okay with surrendering your biometrics to a foreign government (especially the country where Mozilla is based out of) you don't have any right to complain about your own country seeking similar access. The article is written by people with political agenda, Aadhar is million times better than SSN or other such systems. I am extremely well versed with Security & Privacy related to authentication & identification, and most comments/articles offer no concrete solutions. Biometrics are essential to establishing unique identity.
  - adityab 9y ago
    I don't know what kind of world you live in, where you cannot believe that people can take a principled stand about a policy. Why can I not worry about my family's data being shared free-for-all by random startups that use their "Open API"? Not everything is about X team vs Y team.
  - wetha 9y ago
    The level of national discourse in India has reached such a low point that questioning or raising doubts about any of the government's policies/actions leads to one being labelled a traitor to the country. It is depressing to see such knee jerk reactions to healthy discussion, short on facts and long on emotions.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
  - shiven 9y ago
    WTF has Mozilla to do with any of this?
    - aub3bhat 9y ago
      Did you even read the article? """ This opinion piece by Mozilla Executive Chairwoman Mitchell Baker and Mozilla community member Ankit Gadgil """
      - dang 9y ago
        This comment breaks the HN guidelines and some of your other comments ("You are the one full of bullshit") are breaking them even worse. We ban accounts that do this, and have already asked you not to. Please don't post like this again.
        aub3bhat 9y ago
        Sorry, I can't seem to edit it to remove. But will keep this in mind in future. Best,
schoen 9y ago
> Finally any Indian in USA simply has no right to criticize Aadhar since the US Visa process requires biometrics from all visitors. I find the "no right to criticize" theory confusing. I understand if your point is that one might be hypocritical in endorsing one government's biometric collection but not another. But I (a non-Indian) have criticized both US-VISIT and Aadhar. I don't want the U.S. government to have a database of visitors' (or citizens') biometric data, nor do I want the Indian government to have a database of citizens' (or visitors') biometric data. There need not be any hypocrisy or logical contradiction in that. Edit: it looks from elsewhere in the thread like your point is that Indians in the U.S., in particular, must have acquiesced in giving their biometric data to the US-VISIT program (otherwise they would not have been admitted). I think there is some force to that argument, but it also seems to suggest that people who accept any government's preconditions for doing anything that they did not absolutely have to do are then giving up their right to criticize the government for imposing that requirement. For example, some people in the U.S. have criticized local government for requiring a government cosmetology license in order to practice eyebrow threading. I assume that some of those critics have nonetheless signed up for such licenses. Did they completely surrender their right to criticize that requirement when they did so?
ganduG 9y ago
I don't mind giving my biometric data to the US government because I have more legal protection in the US if my data is leaked. India has absolutely no laws to deal with my data being leaked and misused. Also, my biometric data in the US is only used at entry and exit - its not used for every single action I do while in the country. Aadhar tracks literally every action you take - which is scary.
- e12e 9y ago
  Are you an US citizen? If not, I don't think there are many limits on how your data might be used by the US government or by private actors in the US?
ShirsenduK 9y ago
Yes they scan the biometrics and I allow it. But do they make it the password for different services? Coz thats where its headed. Authentication and Authorisation are not the same thing.
JumpCrisscross 9y ago
> fearmongering at a scale unseen before Such hyperbole weakens your argument. It's borderline zealous. I don't think you are a zealot and I think you have a valid argument, although I disagree with you. But expressing good thoughts in hyperbole is not effective here. (Another example is the "no right to criticise" argument. Nobody cares who has a legal right to do disagree. This isn't a court of law. All we care about are good arguments. If someone is hypocritical, point that out. But people can be hypocritical while still having a good point.)
- aub3bhat 9y ago
  "fearmongering at a scale unseen before" is reasonable response when the argument uses words like "dystopian".
  - JumpCrisscross 9y ago
    You have never seen anyone call anything dystopian before?
  - intended 9y ago
    Aadhar is definitionally dystopian. In case people are unaware > No fundamental right to privacy to citizens: Centre tells SC http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/No-fundamental-right-to-privacy-to-citizens-Centre-tells-SC/articleshow/48171323.cms http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/No-fundamental-righ... thats from 2015. Aadhar has regularly been pushed in violation of SC verdicts for ever. Until 2016, and the enshrinment of the 2016 act, it wasn't even with parliamentary backing - AND it was still pushed. At every level, aadhar has been abused and misused, publicly and on record. It is dystopian
it_learnses 9y ago
I don't understand why you're so pissed off rather than arguing logically. >Finally any Indian in USA simply has no right to criticize Aadhar since the US Visa process requires biometrics from all visitors. This simply doesn't hold any logic. If Aadhar is so good, then it should be able to stand up to any argument based on its merits regardless of where it's coming from. Can you actually present any points against the points being made by Mozilla? Are you ok with your intimate personal details being sold to private companies? Maybe your son or daughter have a sickness and now all the private companies can know about it. Maybe years from now the collected data will be used to make decisions about whether to admit them into a school or hire them as professionals. Please think calmly and logically rather than being sensational, egotistical, and personal. Nobody is trying to hurt your "Indian Pride".
anujdeshpande 9y ago
Have you read PG's How to Disagree essay? It's really good. http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html
flak48 9y ago
Getting a US Visa is voluntary. Getting an Aadhaar in India is being made compulsory
_nedR 9y ago
Explain how Aadhar can reduce corruption? I still encounter government officials who take bribes in order to do the basic duty they were supposed to do. Neither Aadhar nor even demonetization has affected this in my experience. I can understand how Aadhar reduces the corruption of common people (like in the case of tax evasion). And the government loves to reduce corruption of the common man. However it is very unwilling to lower its own corruption.

adityab 9y ago

> Finally any Indian in USA simply has no right to criticize Aadhar since the US Visa process requires biometrics from all visitors. This is BS because getting a visa is a conscious choice, Aadhar is forced upon India's residents. You're attacking people for having an opinion that's contrary to yours. About your other points - no one is denying the benefits of having a strong unique ID system that lets people interface with government services; the problem is that Aadhar has no safeguards for privacy - which you would've focused on had you bothered to read the article.

aub3bhat 9y ago
You are the one full of bullshit because if you are okay with surrendering your biometrics to a foreign government (especially the country where Mozilla is based out of) you don't have any right to complain about your own country seeking similar access. The article is written by people with political agenda, Aadhar is million times better than SSN or other such systems. I am extremely well versed with Security & Privacy related to authentication & identification, and most comments/articles offer no concrete solutions. Biometrics are essential to establishing unique identity.
- adityab 9y ago
  I don't know what kind of world you live in, where you cannot believe that people can take a principled stand about a policy. Why can I not worry about my family's data being shared free-for-all by random startups that use their "Open API"? Not everything is about X team vs Y team.
- wetha 9y ago
  The level of national discourse in India has reached such a low point that questioning or raising doubts about any of the government's policies/actions leads to one being labelled a traitor to the country. It is depressing to see such knee jerk reactions to healthy discussion, short on facts and long on emotions.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- shiven 9y ago
  WTF has Mozilla to do with any of this?
  - aub3bhat 9y ago
    Did you even read the article? """ This opinion piece by Mozilla Executive Chairwoman Mitchell Baker and Mozilla community member Ankit Gadgil """
    - dang 9y ago
      This comment breaks the HN guidelines and some of your other comments ("You are the one full of bullshit") are breaking them even worse. We ban accounts that do this, and have already asked you not to. Please don't post like this again.
      - aub3bhat 9y ago
        Sorry, I can't seem to edit it to remove. But will keep this in mind in future. Best,

schoen 9y ago

> Finally any Indian in USA simply has no right to criticize Aadhar since the US Visa process requires biometrics from all visitors. I find the "no right to criticize" theory confusing. I understand if your point is that one might be hypocritical in endorsing one government's biometric collection but not another. But I (a non-Indian) have criticized both US-VISIT and Aadhar. I don't want the U.S. government to have a database of visitors' (or citizens') biometric data, nor do I want the Indian government to have a database of citizens' (or visitors') biometric data. There need not be any hypocrisy or logical contradiction in that. Edit: it looks from elsewhere in the thread like your point is that Indians in the U.S., in particular, must have acquiesced in giving their biometric data to the US-VISIT program (otherwise they would not have been admitted). I think there is some force to that argument, but it also seems to suggest that people who accept any government's preconditions for doing anything that they did not absolutely have to do are then giving up their right to criticize the government for imposing that requirement. For example, some people in the U.S. have criticized local government for requiring a government cosmetology license in order to practice eyebrow threading. I assume that some of those critics have nonetheless signed up for such licenses. Did they completely surrender their right to criticize that requirement when they did so?

ganduG 9y ago

I don't mind giving my biometric data to the US government because I have more legal protection in the US if my data is leaked. India has absolutely no laws to deal with my data being leaked and misused. Also, my biometric data in the US is only used at entry and exit - its not used for every single action I do while in the country. Aadhar tracks literally every action you take - which is scary.

e12e 9y ago
Are you an US citizen? If not, I don't think there are many limits on how your data might be used by the US government or by private actors in the US?

ShirsenduK 9y ago

Yes they scan the biometrics and I allow it. But do they make it the password for different services? Coz thats where its headed. Authentication and Authorisation are not the same thing.

JumpCrisscross 9y ago

> fearmongering at a scale unseen before Such hyperbole weakens your argument. It's borderline zealous. I don't think you are a zealot and I think you have a valid argument, although I disagree with you. But expressing good thoughts in hyperbole is not effective here. (Another example is the "no right to criticise" argument. Nobody cares who has a legal right to do disagree. This isn't a court of law. All we care about are good arguments. If someone is hypocritical, point that out. But people can be hypocritical while still having a good point.)

aub3bhat 9y ago
"fearmongering at a scale unseen before" is reasonable response when the argument uses words like "dystopian".
- JumpCrisscross 9y ago
  You have never seen anyone call anything dystopian before?
- intended 9y ago
  Aadhar is definitionally dystopian. In case people are unaware > No fundamental right to privacy to citizens: Centre tells SC http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/No-fundamental-right-to-privacy-to-citizens-Centre-tells-SC/articleshow/48171323.cms http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/No-fundamental-righ... thats from 2015. Aadhar has regularly been pushed in violation of SC verdicts for ever. Until 2016, and the enshrinment of the 2016 act, it wasn't even with parliamentary backing - AND it was still pushed. At every level, aadhar has been abused and misused, publicly and on record. It is dystopian

it_learnses 9y ago

I don't understand why you're so pissed off rather than arguing logically. >Finally any Indian in USA simply has no right to criticize Aadhar since the US Visa process requires biometrics from all visitors. This simply doesn't hold any logic. If Aadhar is so good, then it should be able to stand up to any argument based on its merits regardless of where it's coming from. Can you actually present any points against the points being made by Mozilla? Are you ok with your intimate personal details being sold to private companies? Maybe your son or daughter have a sickness and now all the private companies can know about it. Maybe years from now the collected data will be used to make decisions about whether to admit them into a school or hire them as professionals. Please think calmly and logically rather than being sensational, egotistical, and personal. Nobody is trying to hurt your "Indian Pride".

anujdeshpande 9y ago

Have you read PG's How to Disagree essay? It's really good. http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html

flak48 9y ago

Getting a US Visa is voluntary. Getting an Aadhaar in India is being made compulsory

_nedR 9y ago

Explain how Aadhar can reduce corruption? I still encounter government officials who take bribes in order to do the basic duty they were supposed to do. Neither Aadhar nor even demonetization has affected this in my experience. I can understand how Aadhar reduces the corruption of common people (like in the case of tax evasion). And the government loves to reduce corruption of the common man. However it is very unwilling to lower its own corruption.