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Tesla Model S and Model 3 comparison
- lukasm 9y agoI'm being redirected to https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/ https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/ EDIT: https://www.tesla.com/compare?redirect=no https://www.tesla.com/compare?redirect=no works
- moomin 9y agoI will happily be wrong about this, but isn't a lead time of a year for a "mass market" vehicle a bit of an ask. Last time I bought a car the "lead time" was a week.
- Roritharr 9y agoIt really depends what you order, a colleague of mine had a build to order Mercedes as a company car and had to wait 6 months until he could pick it up in Sindelfingen.
- mstade 9y agoIt really does depend, yeah. I've been eyeing the Volvo S90 since they came out, so I went to their concept store in Stockholm around Christmas time last year and put together a configuration that seemed nice. Estimated delivery date of the 2017 model I built would have been sometime this fall, I think they said 9 months. I imagine the 2018 model is backed up even more.
- TulliusCicero 9y agoLuckily that's a self-driving problem.
- danieldisu 9y agoI bought a car 2 months ago, and if you wanted to change even the simpler thing the delivery time went to 1+ month. This was for the best selling brand of cars in Spain that delivers almost 500.000 cars a year.
- dx034 9y agoSeat?
- _ph_ 9y agoWell, in this case its just the pre-orders being so insanely high that there is a huge backlog. And the pre-orders are so high, because there is basically no competition to the Model 3. But if you order a car with a custom configuration 2-4 months are quite usual, and even the big car manufacturers sometimes cannot match demand. The Golf 5 Variant had 11 months of delivery times for a while (VW had not made a Golf Variant for some years at that point of time).
- davexunit 9y agoThis is why I'm buying a Chevy Bolt this weekend. My current lease is up and the Bolt is here right now. No reservations and wait lists. The Model 3 looks great, but the process to get one seems geared only people that really like Tesla, not someone like me that doesn't really care about cars.
- johnward 9y agoThe charging network is the real selling point over the Bolt. Well, looks too but that's subjective.
- davexunit 9y agoThe supercharger network is impressive, for sure. But here in the Northeast there are enough CCS DC Fast charging stations available for use and more on the way, making the couple of times I do 200+ mile road trips each year not a big deal. 99% of the time I will be using a Level 2 EVSE at home, just like the Tesla folks will. Appearance-wise, I just don't care much because I've never been into sports cars. I think the Bolt is cute and the hatchback style makes it a good family car which is exactly what I was looking for. For those that like sexy sports cars and wouldn't be caught dead in a car that might as well come with those stick family stickers on the rear windshield, Tesla is the clear winner.
- Roritharr 9y agoI'm really interested in the topspeed. For german customers all the current gen EVs(Bolt/i3/Leaf/Ioniq) with a topspeed of 140-150km/h are to my opinion not really save to drive on the Autobahn as you don't have some speed buffer to overtake someone who's driving 120-130km/h fast enough. If Tesla manages to give the Model 3 a top-speed of 200km/h that would be a game-changer and make it a viable car for me. The Model S is viable in that regard, just too expensive for me personally.
- kapsel 9y agoI'm confident that it will go 200km/h - but you will run out of battery quite fast at those speeds (in much less than an hour), as it's obviously a lot less efficient.
- hinkley 9y agoSquare power law applies to speed when air friction is factored in. It takes 2.37 times as much horsepower to go 200km/h versus 130km/h. And then you have to cool everything, and generate more down force, which will take more energy.
- falsedan 9y ago> Model S is viable in that regard, just too expensive Wow, even the 2nd-hand price for a Model S in DE is €60k. I wonder why are they all Pxx models? https://www.tesla.com/de_DE/preowned?model=ms&sort=price|asc&redirect=no https://www.tesla.com/de_DE/preowned?model=ms&sort=price|asc...
- andruby 9y agoI'm not sure what was already known. This page shows both the model S and the model 3 side by side: Car length: 196.0" vs 184.4" 0-60mph Acceleration: as quick as 2.3s vs 5.6s Range: 249-335 Miles Range (EPA) vs 215+ Miles Range Supercharging: Free Unlimited Supercharging vs Pay Per Use Supercharging Passengers: Seating for 5 Adults + 2 Children vs Seating for 5 Adults Cargo: 30 cu ft Front & Rear Trunk Cargo Volume vs 14 cu ft Front & Rear Trunk Cargo Volume Displays: Driver Display + 17" Touchscreen vs 15" Center Touchscreen Customization: 1,500+ configurations vs <100 configurations Delivery timing: 30 Days or less vs 1+ year
- dgregd 9y agoNo driver display in model 3? This will be a big disappointment for many people.
- gnode 9y agoIt only mentioned the digital displays. There may well be analogue, like most cars have.
- will_hughes 9y agoNo, Tesla and Elon have been very clear that there'll be a single central display only that will also display the speed/directions/etc. Tesla's don't have analogue displays.
- Nursie 9y agoHaving to look down and over to see the speed seems like a big change from basically every other car on the road. Is this even within regulations in most places?
- monitron 9y agoCheck out the Mini or Prius. Both have the primary driver display (like speed) centered away from the driver: http://imgur.com/a/Z2Z5p http://imgur.com/a/Z2Z5p
- havella 9y agoThe salient difference is the free use of supercharger for Model S.
- XJOKOLAT 9y agoHmm, in my case, not at all. Depends on your location and use case. In my London situation, 95% of my journeys will be within 50 miles easily. I imagine it's more of an issue in the US and similar.
- kwhitefoot 9y agoAverage travel time seems to be about 25 minutes in the US (https://www.census.gov/prod/2011pubs/acs-15.pdf https://www.census.gov/prod/2011pubs/acs-15.pdf) so I suspect that for most of the driving that people actually do the Model 3 will be more than adequate. The problem is what counts as a day trip in the US is much further than in the UK. Of course you could just rent an ICE car for longer journeys. I have a colleague in Raleigh NC who rents a car when he drives to Florida (long weekend, not day trip) even though he has a perfectly good car of his own. His reasoning is that he can often get special offers so it is cheap, reduced wear an tear on his own vehicle, and if an incident occurs he won't have much to do and no impact on his car insurance.
- cjrp 9y agoBut then for a lot of people in London (although maybe not in your case?) they won't have easy access to a charger at home, so public chargers might be the easiest way.
- gutnor 9y agoIn my London situation, 80% of my journeys will be within 20 miles. However, I don't have a garage or even a house. I park on the street and I would need at least 1 weekly trip to some charging station. In the 5% times I go over that distance, I will need to stop to charge when leaving and coming back ( considering I have never driven in the direction of a SuperCharger, so the only one available is in London ) So well, it was already a stretch to adapt my lifestyle to accomodate a Tesla, this missing feature is like a mail from Musk explaining me I'm definitively not the target demographic for his car.
- manav 9y agoTesla is just desperately trying to push Model S sales this quarter. That's probably also why they added back free supercharging to the Model S recently.
- osteele 9y agoModel S supercharging for new vehicles is free only "with referral" - if the owner induces someone else to buy a vehicle too (tracked via a referral code). They didn't add back free supercharging as part of the original purchase. This only strengthens your main point.
- ClassyJacket 9y agoIt seems like it'd be pretty easy to find a referral, however.
- Shank 9y agoI believe most Tesla YouTube videos include referral links as owners get a monetary kickback for the referral. It wouldn't surprise me if enthusiasts that haven't bought a Model S yet are going to go through one of those links as opposed to an outright purchase from the website, especially if the supercharging limits are known.
- erikpukinskis 9y agoYou can only do five referrals per code.
- natch 9y agoI wonder. It depends how they do it. If each owner only has one referral to give, it would be harder.
- glbrew 9y agoYeah. This quarter and next quarter are going to have abysmal sales. I think they are desperately trying to make their earnings reports look better to prevent a sell off.
- sleepingeights 9y agoHow is Musk going to pull the M.3 out of the Silicon Valley limelight? It has a car image for those types of people rather than for regular honest hard-working folk. At the same time he has to sell the Model S to pull in profits. His other problem is, the number of people who can afford the Model S is shrinking while the wealth gap continually increases... even if he leaves the pricing static, which is why he needs the Model 3. The Model S looks like more like a car for "wall street lackeys", yuppies and hipsters. Even worse, it looks like a car made specifically for silicon valley and US' middle and upper management. Now you know what the Model 3 looks like... The gutsy move was to leave himself exposed in that market, while no one made a move... but does he want to move his elitist image? Sure that kind of image works to sell it in Norway, Scandinavia, and the US' wealthy class... but he has to fashion his company into a socialist type of entity dependent on the government just like the big three.
- sidcool 9y agoBest part: >Although it will be our newest vehicle, Model 3 is not “Version 3” or the most advanced Tesla. Like Model S, it is designed to be the safest car in its class. Gotta applaud the honesty.
- dx034 9y agoThey just try to push as many people as possible into Model S since margins there are higher.
- dgudkov 9y agoI couldn't stop feeling like this page is nothing else but a promotion for "Model S" which is "superior and now" rather than the other car which is "inferior and 1 year later". Price would've been the biggest (and only) reason for "Model 3" but it's not shown on the page. Added extra details for "Model 3" is a nice trick to boost virality of the promotion aimed at its target audience -- potential Model 3 buyers. Well done, Tesla marketing. Well done.
- Nursie 9y agoYeah, full price was not on the next page either - Click "Reserve" and they ask for $1000, but with no indication of the final price!
- br0ke 9y agoFull price is on the model 3 page at https://www.tesla.com/model3 https://www.tesla.com/model3 $35,000
- madengr 9y agoWhat? Not $34,999?
- cryptoz 9y agoInterestingly, that extra dollar will pay an entire salary for an engineer at Tesla in a year or two.
- vkou 9y agoStarting at $35,000. Nobody has any idea what power windows and an air conditioner are going to cost. This is an important distinction.
- colejohnson66 9y agoPower windows and air conditioning are standard in practically every car now, right? I just got a 2017 Honda Civic EX (lowest end) which is ~$20000 and it how power windows and AC
- Dwolb 9y agoAs an operations person, I love how lean this car program is. They really stripped the car program down to just the necessary components and options to hit the price point they want. By limiting complexity I think they'll have the best shot at achieving the huge undertaking of scaling car production.
- davidpelayo 9y ago35k with no free use of supercharger, makes me think it doesn't worth it. I don't want to buy model 3 to be only around my town. That's the biggest downside, from my perspective.
- pcr0 9y agoSuperchargers should still be cheaper than gas. If I recall correctly, Elon stated they weren't looking to make a profit but rather to recoup their investment in Supercharger infrastructure.
- bjelkeman-again 9y agoPaid for supercharging, where I live, is still cheaper than petrol. Filling at home is about 1/5 of the price per km compared to an BMW 330i. If I would have to do paid for supercharging it would still be less than half of the price for a petrol km. [1] [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/6ddqln/fuel_cost_comparison_bmw_330i_vs_tesla_model_3/di28aco/?st=j365h3u0&sh=848dc74d https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/6ddqln/fuel_co...
- magoon 9y agoIt still needs to compete with a $35k-ish sedan, which will have a driver display and power liftgate.
- kylec 9y agoIf given the choice I prefer a non-powered trunk opening. Opening and closing a trunk provides no hardship for me, and doing it myself is much faster than waiting for a mechanism.
- FireBeyond 9y ago> much faster than waiting for a mechanism Are you in a race to get going? I can't see you being in your seat, buckled and engine started before the mechanism closing? Not being snarky, it's just not that compelling a reason - to me.
- Faaak 9y agoIt just feels useless. I find it annoying to wait for a trunk to open when you can just do it yourself and faster. One less thing to break, too.
- oculusthrift 9y agoi think the point is that the powered one is not very compelling. He even pointed out a slight benefit to the standard mechanical ones.
- stupidhn 9y ago>If given the choice I prefer a non-powered trunk opening Being able to pop your trunk (and have it open) on your approach to the car is actually quite convenient. I didn't think much of it until I had the option. I wouldn't call it a deal-breaker though.
- S_A_P 9y agoI think musk dropped the ball here. A decontented 35-40k model 3 should be available. They should also allow you to option the price up for luxury and performance like the A4/S4/RS4 or 320/328/335/m3. That should make this vehicle both profitable and more aspirational.
- imron 9y ago> That should make this vehicle both profitable and more aspirational. Don't want to be too aspirational until it's actually available for sale. Otherwise everyone aspiring to own one will just wait.
- S_A_P 9y agoI'm not sure that most car buyers in that price range actually wait. People buying a 40k car probably need it as a daily driver.
- audunw 9y agoIs it normal for a car company to make a luxury model and an economic model that looks so similar? I'm wondering if that's one of the reasons they feel the need to put up this comparison: they're not differentiating much on external looks, so they have to make it really clear that they're differentiating on features.
- johnward 9y agoBMW and Audi basically do that.
- illegalsmile 9y agoI'm not sure how normal it is. BMW does it, Mercedes does it to an extent, Audi does it, etc... American and Japanese brands seem to do something similar by using different brands, i.e. Nissan and Infiniti.
- bhauer 9y agoVirtually all near-luxury to luxury manufacturers do exactly this. For these two Tesla models in particular, the headlights and trunk line are key differences between the 3 and S, and are clearly identified by enthusiasts. But the majority of the design is part of the brand's consistent motif, making them look very similar to laypeople. To laypeople, the BMW 3 looks nearly identical to the 5; the A3 looks nearly identical to the A6; the C-class looks nearly identical to the E-class; the ATS looks nearly identical to the CTS; the XE looks nearly identical to the XF; and so on.
- mattei 9y agoI find it interesting that there is no mention of autopilot.
- ganley 9y agohttp://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/03/tesla-is-underselling-autopilot-capabilities-on-model-3-says-analyst.html http://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/03/tesla-is-underselling-autopil...
- mattei 9y agoThat makes sense, seems they want to avoid (stem?) people not buying the model S and waiting for the cheaper model 3.
- stupidhn 9y agoOption 1: Autopilot isn't where Tesla wants it, and they are trying hard to get it up to snuff, since so much has been made about how far ahead of everyone else Tesla is. Option 2: In the opinion of a Tesla analyst who works for a bank that underwrote Tesla capital raises, it's a strategic move because the Autopilot is so awesome that it will eat away at Model S sales, though the mechanism by which that happens is unclear. And of course, Elon Musk is known for keeping things close to the chest. I mean, it could be option 2, but I know where I'd put my money.
- unwind 9y agoMods: pretty glaring typo in the title, it says "TELSA" and not "TESLA" (caps for visibility). Please fix if possible, thanks.
- icantdrive55 9y agoI had to read this four times in order to catch the error. Does this transposition of letters stand out to most of you?
- perseusprime11 9y agoCan 5 adults and 2 kids really fit in Model S?
- ec109685 9y agoWith 2 in the trunk, rear facing.
- perseusprime11 9y agotoo bad they are taking this out for Model 3.
- kylec 9y agoThere's not enough room for it. The Model 3 is much smaller than the Model S.
- josefresco 9y agoyes, intimately
- nickik 9y agoSeems that many people think that the Model 3 is the 'new' and 'best' car. They are constantly point out that if people want the best Tesla car it is still the Model S.
- iplaw 9y agoThere is a misconception that the Model 3 is the most advanced Tesla model simply because it is the newest Tesla model. This was cannibalizing the sales of the Model S more than Tesla expected it to. Buyer who could afford a Model S or Model X were waiting for the Model 3 because they were under the mistaken belief that the Model 3 would offer all the newest, cutting edge technologies and self-driving capabilities. As Musk said via Twitter, the Model S is on Gen. 4, and continues to offer the most advanced technologies. That said, most people are waiting for the Model 3 because they can't (or do want to) afford a $100,000-$165,000 (with the self-driving packages) vehicle.
- GoatHerderson 9y agoFor what you get, $100,000 is a complete rip-off. Now if you are buying exotic cars, sure, $100,000 is nothing.
- ltdanimal 9y agoSeems there are a huge number of people who disagree. There literally being nothing else that does what it does I think is a big leg up.
- issa 9y agoThe only other $100k+ car I've ever driven is a Range Rover. So I'm not an expert, but I feel like the Model S is considerably "more for the money". Faster acceleration, no gas, large screen, etc. I realize that's not why people buy Range Rovers, but my point is that even with most things being subjective, you can't reasonably call a Model S "a complete rip-off".
- johnward 9y agoI really want to meet the person that thinks a $35k car is going to be better than a $100k car...
- vkou 9y agoWell, there seems to be a misconception that there are hordes of people who are legitimately confused about the subject.
- bitsoda 9y agoIf you're one of the people who put down the $1K refundable deposit, how do you feel about this page? I understand they're trying to push Model S sales, but don't do it at the expense of customers willing to wait years and put a hefty deposit down. This strikes me as a rare misplay by Tesla. The Model 3 comes with a glass roof standard so it's conveniently left out of the premium options section -- that's pretty misleading. By the tone of the spec table, you'd think a well-equipped Corolla will be competitive with the Model 3.
- hangonhn 9y agoI'm one of those people. I think the deposit was put down in a moment of excitement, which has since died down quite a bit. Not only am I one of those people who gave them a deposit, I'm also likely one of those people who they meant to target: I drive a BMW 3-series, which would be the Model 3's main competitor. Now given all that, this display made me really not excited about the Model 3. Electric car is nice but that's the only thing the Model 3 has going for it when compared to the 3 series. I don't see them emphasizing self driving and the acceleration is kind of just par for course, which shouldn't be the case for an electric car. Given Tesla's reputation for a Spartan interior, what am I getting out of it other than it being electric? The way I see it, I'm better off waiting a few more years to see if things improve. My current 328i has given me 5 years of good driving and no headache at all. Better integrating with smartphones would be great but the latest 3-series offers that as an option already. So I have to wonder, why a Model 3 over a 3-series?
- crush-n-spread 9y agoPersonally I could never drive a ICE car when an equivalent electric vehicle presented itself. I would never forgive myself. Everyone needs to get to electric cars as soon as possible or we cook and die here on Earth. It makes the arguments about the interior seem really tone deaf. Again, personally. EDIT: Autopilot and constant software updates are huge.
- hangonhn 9y ago
- joshdance 9y agoThis is all about managing expectations. Getting a model 3 is not getting a mini model S. I like it, and the approach.
- jedberg 9y agoI was at a Tesla dealership the other day, and the "sales associate" or whatever they call them was really pushing me away from the Model 3. He said, "Think of it like an electric Civic. It has no luxury features. The dashboard is a flat board like a picnic table. It has no speedometer or any gauges in front of the driver (it's all on the touchscreen in the middle). It doesn't have air conditioning on the passenger side, or even a glove box. The entire $30K of the car is for the battery." It almost made me want to pull my Model 3 reservation.
- GoatHerderson 9y agoTesla customers remind me of Apple customers. The model 3 better be high quality... it's part of their reputation, despite tech challenges.
- cyrildorsaz 9y agoI shared this note 2 months ago on my linkedin. Still valid today. https://www.linkedin.com/hp/update/6256148575126986752 https://www.linkedin.com/hp/update/6256148575126986752 Tesla is facing a potential big problem. New buyers are holding off and are waiting to see the final specs and price of the Model 3. This could harm a lot Tesla sales until Elon Musk reveals to the public the Model 3. I also believe Tesla did a mistake by naming the Model with a number. In the mind of many people, 3 is what comes after 1 and 2 (S & X). People are used to this because of the iPhone naming convention. Tesla is reaffirming that the Model 3, despite its name, is not a version 3. It will be the entry level of the brand and if people want to buy the best performing car that Tesla can produce, they should buy a S or a X now.
- ltdanimal 9y agoI disagree. While there may be some that are holding off, they will know the specs in the next couple of months. At that time those people will be queued up and either buy the S,X or the 3, and totals sales wont be impacted at all
- kneel 9y agoI don't think anyone who is serious about spending 70k+ on a car is going to be swayed by the model name. They're likely looking deep into the details and comparisons.